posted
A local taxi company that we have done work for in the past came to us in June of this year. They ordered 2 sets of magnetics. They gave us a deposit. There was some confusion on the job because they couldn't make up their mind on the colors. One set ended up White refective with a gold border on the letters and a gold pinstripe around the outside. The other set was to be white reflective letters, gold outline, navy blue background and gold pinstripe. At the time I was out of navy vinyl so I ordered it. At this point the owner took over. She ran the one set and the client came in a got them. When the navy vinyl arrived I let her know and said that we should run the second set. I left it at that. End of July the client comes in for the second set. They aren't done. And to make a long story shorter, this happened 3 or 4 times. Finally I told my boss(owner) that we had to get these done as I didn't want to face the client again and have to tell him his magnetics weren't finished. So much time has now gone by that she forgets what we are doing for him and runs 2 sets of mags. One like the first set he got and the second in a color scheme that had been changed. He comes in and is not very happy. She wiggs out and once again I am in the middle.
I felt like we had strung this client along enough(5 months) so I told him that I would make it right by him. To avoid conflict with the owner who would not back down and wanted to charge him another $200 for the correct set, I went in on the weekend on my own time and ran the corrected set and had him pick them up at my house. He wasn't charged and went away happy. This is a small town and we do alot of cabs. I felt we needed to make it right by this guy.
posted
If you worked for me, I would have respected your first instinct to cut them some slack because of the misunderstanding. Your boss must be a real treat. After reading your post regarding wages and having your hands tied so much, I'd be researching financing for my own gig.
""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3485 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
Steve... I think you did the right thing. Shows what stuff you're made out of. And possibly found yourself a satisfied customer for when you start your own shop! Your boss sounds like she needs PMS medicine. As a woman, I know we can be stubborn & tuff & hate to admit we were wrong. But your boss seems to have a crappy attitude-which could work in your favor supposin' you want to leave her. Just think of all her old clients heading your way! The taxi dude can drop them all off at your place. HAHA I know I'm mean today...can't even blame PMS. Love- JILL
-------------------- That is like a Mr. Potato Head with all the pieces in the wrong place. -Russ McMullin Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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posted
Hey Steve, Without taking sides here at all, let me throw this out on the table. I know there are 8.5 x 11 Work Orders there in the shop. Personally, I believe the person who sold the job is 100% responsible for writing all the necessary information about the job down on the work order for all else to see as the job progresses through the shop. If you sold it, then if falls back on you, and if the owner sold it, then the opposite is true. Neither of you can go around with half the information in your head and not write it down for the rest of the shop to see as the job goes through. If a customer rejects one color scheme, it should have been "X"ed off the work order and date so on one would ever exectue it.
Two minutes spent by either of you to write down necessary information can cut this kind of miscommunication down to a tolerable minimum.
Mike Jackson
-------------------- Mike Jackson Golden Era Studios Jackson Hole, Wy www.goldenstudios.com/ Posts: 390 | From: PO Box 7850 | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Mike Jackson is right on, of course with a job floating around the shop for 5 months it's easy to lose track of job details if the customer never made a set decision.
You made it right though, and that's all that matters. Like Silly Jilly said, if you start your own shop I think you'll already have your first customer waiting at the door on opening day.
If that shop will string a customer along for 5 months on a set of magnetics, I don't even want to imagine what other jobs are getting strung along there!
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
Hiya Steve, From the clients point of view, you did what was right in his mind and he is finally happy. From your boss's point of view, you stole material from her shop & blew a $200 sale. From my point of view, you should have done this a lot sooner and been on to the next project. No matter how well you plan & try to do things right the first time, sh*t sometimes happens. It's how quickly you react to remedy the situation is what counts in the clients eyes. Hopefully, they'll get over this. It sounds like you're in for one helluva ride over the next few months. Either way, I hope things work out for ya.
Cheers,
Checkers
-------------------- a.k.a. Brian Born www.CheckersCustom.com Harrisburg, Pa Work Smart, Play Hard Posts: 3775 | From: Harrisburg, Pa. U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 1998
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quote:From your boss's point of view, you stole material from her shop & blew a $200 sale.
My thoughts exactly. I'd be worried the boss will see the mags out there and realize you went behind her back, which may be all she can focus on despite the fact that YOU DID THE RIGHT THING. I would have probably made a stand over that issue and ended up getting fired for it. You may be too ethical to survive in that particular shop much longer.
SONGPAINTER Original Sign Music by Sign People NOW AVAILABLE on CD and the proceeds go to Letterville's favorite charity! Click Here for Sound Clips! Posts: 1974 | From: Orleans, MA, Cape Cod, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
negotiate my job description... I will take the front lines if I can look the client in the eye & deliver on my committments, or I'll take the back seat & help the owner deliver on her committments but I would explain that my ethics will not allow me to have my honor compromised by her.
$200 may be more importent to her then one taxi guy's business... but if it is more important then her employees rights to be honorable in his business dealings... it's time to change job descriptions (duties) or change jobs.
posted
Hey Steve, Surprise it's me. Your employer. Your boss. Misty.
First, I would like to say that the simple fact that you would badmouth your employer publicly to hundreds of other people in the business says more about your character than any story you could concoct. I believe there is a phrase for this. It's called "Biting the hand that feeds you."
Next, In order to defend myself against your personal attack I would like to make note of the ACTUAL facts of the circumstances.
1. This particular client whom I have been doing work for for the past 7 years has been a notoriously difficult client - regularly making unsubstantiated complaints and trying to talk us down in price. He has often taken many months to pay us. Most shops would have quit doing work for him years ago.
2. Your job description clearly states that running/edging vinyl is one of your responsiblities. You have certainly found time to run numerous other jobs in the past several months. I find it difficult to understand that if this job was such a concern to you why you didn't run it yourself in the first place.
3. The job did NOT come to the design pile until far more recently than June or July, and if you would be so kind as to return the client's file back to the shop in it's proper place I could verify more of this information.
4. I produced the job EXACTLY as it was written on the job sheet that YOU wrote, and in fact showed it to the client when he came to pick up his signs. At this point I came to get you to work things out with the client since you had taken the order. At NO TIME did I "wigg out" as you so aptly put it, nor did I tell him it would cost him another $200 to run another set. His magnetics have NEVER cost him that much to begin with. I made no claims other than I made them the way the work order read. After a brief conversation between said client and yourself, you came back and trimmed one set of magnetics since they were apparently too large for his vehicle. Note that they were the exact same size as the numerous other sets we have run for him over the last 7 years. No note was made on the work order to change the size. Client paid for his signs and this was the LAST I heard of it. You failed to mention to me that there was any problem after that.
5. On Wednesday, Nov. 12, the client came in to "pick up his signs" and when I could not find the signs let alone his file he told me "Oh, Steve said he'd take them home and I could pick them up there." He left and I called you at home to ask if you knew anything about his job to which you repled "I have no idea what he's talking about. I'll call him tomorrow." When I called the client back a few minutes later he told me that he had just been to your house and picked up his signs. The fact of the matter is you lied to cover your own tracks and then proceeded to attempt to destroy my reputation personally.
So, to answer your question, "What would you do?" I would fire you immediatly if it were not for the fact that I am in the middle of selling the shop. However, sale should be complete in the immediate future and I will be off to greener pastures, so instead I will leave that decision to the new owner and for my remaining short time as your employer and owner of Jackson Signs you can expect to be treated as the person you have shown yourself to be. See you in the morning.
posted
hey, all you past employers, "difficult" clients & competitive sign companies... ya know all that stuff I been saying here for the last few years... well, ya know, I was jus funnin'..an, um well, no harm done right? jus a joke see, um, well, you know. like, um sorry if I mighta xaggerated a little here an there, but well, nice board huh, cool, I figured you'll was probably lurkin here anyway
...this situation was created by a customer, Misty, that, as you point out
quote:...for the past 7 years has been a notoriously difficult client - regularly making unsubstantiated complaints and trying to talk us down in price. He has often taken many months to pay us. Most shops would have quit doing work for him years ago.
"What would I do?
Considering the customer's past history, I'd question how well they played both you and Steve on this one.
Probably not gonna make the day go any better, but food for thought. Rapid
-------------------- Ray Rheaume Rapidfire Design 543 Brushwood Road North Haverhill, NH 03774 rapidfiredesign@hotmail.com 603-787-6803
I like my paint shaken, not stirred. Posts: 5648 | From: North Haverhill, New Hampshire | Registered: Apr 2003
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The SAD part is that I was not made aware that the problem had not been resolved until I read it here for all the world to see. I have an EXCELLENT reputation for standing behind the work we do at Jackson Signs, but was NEVER consulted as to how to handle this situation. Suddenly, I find myself being attacked as "The Bad Guy" in a situation I simply turned over to the employee ( production manager ) who took the order. From 13 years experience in the sign business I have learned that the person who has been dealing with the client is the only one who really knows what was said when the job was ordered. I certainly have no problem with making the job right. I DO however have a rather BIG problem with being unfairly attacked publicly, and will defend myself publicly. Let this be a prime example of why custom sign shops tend to operate more efficiently as a "one man show" which is exactly what I am looking forward to doing again soon.
posted
Wow Misty.... Sorry for ripping on ya, sista. I guess we are all too quick to judge. Please accept my apology....you actually seem like ya know yer stuff pretty durn well. And if that taxi dude is a slow-pay as you say, I would have been in no big rush to give him his signs either. I have a pizza man who routinely makes me wait. And I was assuming that Steve supplied the materials himself. Steve....hell hath no fury.... Love yins...JILLY
-------------------- That is like a Mr. Potato Head with all the pieces in the wrong place. -Russ McMullin Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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posted
First, Welcome aboard Misty. It's a shame we have to meet this way, but, hopefully, you can Steve can work things out. After hearing both sides of the story, I think Ray sumed it up well. The two of you were played and the only winner was the client, and that's a shame. I'm sure there's a lot of stress at the shop right now. I know what the 2 of you are going through - I've been an employee of a shop in similar turmoil and I've experienced messy divorce battles too. It can get downright ugly. If anything positive can come out of this, it should open up the lines of communication. Considering the situation and realizing that emotions are running high, I would expect an apology is in order and although it was a painful learning experience, it should be water under the bridge.
Cheers,
Checkers
-------------------- a.k.a. Brian Born www.CheckersCustom.com Harrisburg, Pa Work Smart, Play Hard Posts: 3775 | From: Harrisburg, Pa. U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
hey...since when did an owner know how to operate this computer contraption? What is this world coming to? Don't ya know everyone hates working "for da man" and unfortunatly in this situatuion you are "da man"- The buck stops there! (Hope the bucks don't stop for Steve!)
Despite what you may think, It gets worse when you are a one person shop- 'cause you still hate working for "da man", and now you're still "da man", and you can't vent and tell anybody that you hate working for "da man", cause "da man" will surely find out... It gets really complicated!
Take the rest of the day off and don't take it too personally, after all they are just employees!, what do you care what they think!
(this post is intended to be dripping with sacasm, don't get out the flame throwers )
-------------------- Michael Clanton Clanton Graphics/ Blackberry 19 Studio 1933 Blackberry Conway AR 72034 501-505-6794 clantongraphics@yahoo.com Posts: 1735 | From: Conway Arkansas | Registered: Oct 2001
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posted
Ok people, I hope you all catch the irony of this - particularly Steve and Misty. Everybody thought their position was well known and understood by the other parties involved, and everyone thought they were acting appropriately for the circumstances.
Steve bringing the topic here shows me he was conflicted about his actions. Misty catching (all of us) speculating about what coulda, woulda, shoulda happened shows me I should never assume I have all the facts, and I should never, NEVER talk out of school.
SONGPAINTER Original Sign Music by Sign People NOW AVAILABLE on CD and the proceeds go to Letterville's favorite charity! Click Here for Sound Clips! Posts: 1974 | From: Orleans, MA, Cape Cod, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
OMG, talk about turning the tables! Two sides to every story indeed!
Misty I too am a shop owner, and respect the class way you handled this sticky situation. I may not have done so well. Right or wrong, he should have had the decency to sit down with you and some latte' and hashed it out. I put myself in your shoes when I read the original post. What if one of my people did that? I wish you both well, and hope you can heel the bad feelings it undoubtedly caused. I DID learn from this as did other Letterheads.
""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3485 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
OUCH!!! Now I have worked for jerky employers, but instead of flaming them in front of everyone, I just quite. Plus there is 2 sides to every story, I worked for the biggest jerk for 9 months, and there was times I let him know how I felt, we made each other miserable, thank god he fired me. Steve, what you should have done was kept your employer informed, never lie, and if it comes down to it, life is too short for either of you, quit. If you can't quite then do the job you were hired to do, till you can.
Misty, great response under a lot of pressure. I can't imagine finding an employer bad mouthing in front of hudreds of people. I am employed, I have a great deal of respect for my employer, as well as my past employees, I may not agree with them 100%, but it's thier business, not mine, thats why I dont' work for them. I truly hope that this does not turn you off too employees, there are plenty who are hard working, have a great deal of talent, that can make you a lot of money if given a chance. I would hate to think I would miss out on a chance to work for a one person sign shop because the last employee didn't work out. Anyways good luck on your new venture and keep coming around.
Rick
Posts: 1538 | From: Hemet,CA U.S.A. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Misty if this customer is Nickel and Diming you to Dead then let him go!
Steve if you like to pick him Up as a sideline work.......Do it.. But with your own Time/Materials and Sales pitch.... Never and I mean never use the power of the Employer and their overhead to gain a favor of a customer.
-------------------- Stephen Deveau RavenGraphics Insinx Digital Displays
Letting Your Imagination Run Wild! Posts: 4327 | From: Lower Sackville, Nova Scotia, Canada | Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
I'm sure this topic is no longer open for interpretation any more, but if I wa sthe employer I would have fealt underminded, based on the facts given.
Thats one thing about being the boss, YOU make the decisions whether good or bad and you have to take the consequenses that accompany them.
On the flip side thats one of the benefits of being an employee as well, no responsibility for your bosses decisions, again whether good or bad, in your eyes or others.
Sorry to see such an unfortunate situation between good people.
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
If you are looking for a relly loyal employee:
quote: Oddly Enough - Reuters
Man Drowns Self in Cesspool Over Missing Bike Thu Nov 13, 9:06 AM ET Add Oddly Enough - Reuters to My Yahoo!
DAR ES SALAAM (Reuters) - A Tanzanian who thought his boss's bicycle had been stolen while in his care killed himself by diving into a cesspit -- only for a friend to return the bike a little later, a newspaper said Thursday.
Samuel Boniface, 20, committed suicide Tuesday after telling his employer the bicycle had gone missing, police in Dar es Salaam told the Daily Times.
Shortly after his body was found floating in the cesspool, his friend returned the bicycle, saying he had borrowed it.
Unfortunatly, it's now too late to hire him!
-------------------- Si Allen #562 La Mirada, CA. USA
(714) 521-4810
si.allen on Skype
siallen@dslextreme.com
"SignPainters do It with Longer Strokes!"
Never mess with your profile while in a drunken stupor!!!
Brushasaurus on Chat Posts: 8827 | From: La Mirada, CA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Anyone else find it kinda fishy (perhaps convenient) that all of a sudden Steve's boss is a new member here?
I can't tell you how many time I've sensed that someone was badmouthing me somewhere online, and actually became a member of the site so I could make posts.
**Edit**: By the way, if Misty's posts are in fact legit, my apologies. It's just too much of a co-incidence!
**Edit again**: OK, after about a 2 minute investigation I've seen the light. Boy! What an interesting love-hate triangle!
[ November 14, 2003, 05:21 PM: Message edited by: Mike Pipes ]
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
Mike, it seems to me not only is Misty legitiment , but all the Goody Two shoes were caught were caught with their fingers in the pie. Giving advice and saying there are 2 sides to every story isn't really correct, I believe there are 3 sides, the last one being the facts.
Another day in the life.........
-------------------- HotLines Joey Madden - pinstriping since 1952 'Perfection, its what I look for and what I live for'
posted
I agree with Joey, & sense that she is the real employer. Also, that her story makes her look good & Steve bad, just about as much as Steve's side serves him. I would tend to think the facts are somewhere between the two, but I highly doubt Misty's posts are from anyone other then Steve's boss.
I also highly doubt it is a co-incidence. Someone alerted her no doubt. But now she will become addicted to letterville & we will be seeing more from her I would guess. Welcome aboard Misty strange situation that brings you here, but I agree with a few posts above that you seem to be pretty well-spoken & handled this with class, (even with my projected possibility that human nature may have skewed your version a little "to protect the innocent"... I know that happens to my stories anyway )
Misty here to clear up some of the mystery surrounding my presence in this forum.
Long ago and Far Away ( Phoenix ) I had a little sign business called "Graffiti" for 5 years. I mostly did window splashes - along with a few signs, banners & vehicles. I gave it up to move to Jackson. I actually became a letterheads member years ago when I was an employee of Jackson Signs, shortly after Mike and Darla sold it. Six years ago, I bought the shop and attempting to fill Mike Jackson's shoes in the sign business as you might guess is an all-consuming task. In addition, being a wife, mother, and active member of the community left me little time to get involved in the Letterheads Bullboard. I see that Steve has already filled you all in on the details of my personal life, and yes I am in the middle of a divorce and selling the once- glorious Jackson Signs, and moving to Azle, Texas where I will open a new sign business ( one-woman-show ) under the name of "Silverthorne Signs & Design"
I would like to think that I am above ripping Steve apart in a public forum ( despite a tremendous urge to do so - that any one of you would feel if you were in my shoes ). Those of you who know me know that I am an honest, ethical, and sincere business person and employer who has gone to the wall many times for both customers and employees. I am here to simply defend myself, as I absolutely will not tolerate being slandered. You are all certainly free to make your own judgements and hopefully this whole fiasco will dry up and disappear soon. I look forward to getting to know some of you better and will certainly be dropping in more often. Many thanks to those of you who have offered support. It is much appreciated.
posted
Some of you people really amaze me. Why on earth would I want to take sides in a matter I am only hearing one side of. Yes it's great to run to the support of someone you supposedly know, but what good can you do?
Even if Steve comes back with another rebuttal, I wouldn't bet a dime on who is right or wrong. Still, it is a good lesson to watch what you post,never know who is reading or will get tipped off by someone here.
-------------------- Wright Signs Wyandotte, Michigan Posts: 2785 | From: Wyandotte, MI USA | Registered: Jan 1999
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I agree with Joey, there are three sides to every story.
Yours, Theirs and "The Truth"
But again this week I find people prejudging others without having ALL the facts. Now dont get me wrong I probably have done it before and I will probably do it again. But in the past month I have tried to reply to a few posts and then after typing it, let it set on my screen for awhile then re-read it and realized that perhaps it wasnt my place to have an opinion or that maybe some things are better left alone.
Maybe other people here should think before spouting with diarrhea of the keyboard.
"WHY CANT WE ALL JUST GET ALONG" (Q:some idiot that got his butt kicked)
-------------------- Harris Kohen K-Man Pinstriping and Graphix Trenton, NJ "Showing the world that even I can strategically place the pigment where its got to go." Posts: 1739 | From: Trenton, NJ, USA | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
No secrets in a small town. Letterville with a speaking population of ?? and a lurking population of ?,??? daily. With easy access to surf in, we all forget just how far this village reaches. I feel bad for all concerned, lets move on and let this thread fade away.
-------------------- REBEL with a cause, and a loaded Airbrush! Posts: 73 | From: Ruthven Ont. Can. | Registered: Aug 2002
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Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6714 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I got a surprize for all of you. I'm the customer being ripped apart here!
Yes it's true! Most of you know I look after Letterville Chat here, but who could live on the meager picking that tightass Steve and his stingy wife Barb toss my way? The bastards!
I've been forced to take a second job driving cab in Jackson Hole just to feed our growing tribe of Furballs. It was I that ordered these signs in the first place.
Thank God I still have showbiz pals from the good old days. Harrison Ford is hooked on this #%#@* Letterville Bullboard crap. He was concerned enough to bring this post to my attention. Quite a little Peyton Place you all have going here!
I see lots of symphathy for Steve and Missy, but the customer is still the rotten apple. It's always the customer that gets torn apart in forums like this. Bet you never thought one of us would see it!
What's wrong with you Letterheads? Us customers do all your work. We got computors too ya know. Our kids and spouses already have the design and colors ready to go in most cases. Even yours truely scored an B+ in Art School. While once anyway.
I have to cut this short and get back to my post on Chat. Seems Old Paint got up early today! 3pm is really early for Old Paint. It's Friday night and he'll be up to his old tricks in chat. With me away he'll be trying to grope anything that moves. In the meantime you can bet I'll be watching you people. Always watching!
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What is this world coming to? Don't ya know everyone hates working "for da man" and unfortunatly in this situatuion you are "da man"- The buck stops there! (Hope the bucks don't stop for Steve!) ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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