posted
Things could be worse Mike. Imagine being a tourist from a place like Columbia with the name Carlos, and some overzealous Customs & Immigration inspector decides that you would make a good candidate for a FULL CAVITY BODY SEARCH.
I know that many of our American neighbours resent the fact that Canada does welcome their visits...but doesn't allow their firearms across the border, and WILL CONFISCATE their handguns if they're discovered to be "packing" after having declared that they are not. Sovereign nations are fully entitled to make whatever rules they feel necessary, in order for you or I to enter their country. We may not like it...but it is THEIR COUNTRY....and THEIR RULES.
-------------------- Ken Henry Henry & Henry Signs London, Ontario Canada (519) 439-1881 e-mail: kjmlhenry@rogers.com
Why do I get all those on-line offers to sell me Viagara, when the only thing hardening is my arteries ? Posts: 2690 | From: London,Ontario, Canada | Registered: Feb 1999
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How about my friend traveling from Finland through Russia to Germany back in the "Cold War" Days on a bus tour through Europe.
He was made to remove his beard (no hot water!) in the early hours of a very chilly morning at the Russian Border .... because his face didn't match the clean shaven photo in his passport
posted
Mike. I don't know if you are refering to passports or not, but we have both had passports for many years and wouldn't even consider travel outside of Canada without one.
The passports of the future will apparently contain some information regarding retinal scans as well as your picture, but I haven't heard anything about fingerprints being required.
I can't see any point in fingerprints being a part of the passport since it would take way too long to utilize that information by fingerprinting and processing those prints for all 300 or so travellers on each and every out of country flight every day.
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
posted
What.. nobody's ever traveled abroad (beyond Canada and Mexico)?
Try flying into China or some other communist country some time.. being photographed and fingerprinted will be the LEAST of your worries, especially if you don't have a particular fondness of rubber gloves.
At any rate, if you travel abroad, having a passport is the only way to go. You simply flash it, they put a stamp in it, you're free to continue on.
I don't see what the issue is. North America lives in a bubble, the rest of the world isn't such a nice place and if North America followed even HALF of the travel security measures other countries take, we wouldn't be having terrorist threats from within our own soil.
Our western society is more concerned with privacy and saving a few minutes, than putting up with hassles that can ensure our own safety.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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its all part of the future of law enforcement. Maybe not in my lifetime. But it will be true.. You will not be able to travel anywhere until you are screned. In fact many public events are video'd and faces are computer matched for criminals. Your face is stored for future referance. Someday, you may find yourself locked out of transportation if your file is flagged..
You won't be able to go anywhere unless u are a registered travelor. And then only after you are printed, photoed, and DNA'd. ITs not long until this is all implemented. And those most dangerous words, "if yer not guilty don't worry about it" is exactly why we are slowly but surely losing our civil liberties.
If you have ever been subjected to a police investigation then you will know exactly what this all means. Many innocent people have had their lives ruined after this. Your accounts will be frozen, your personal life will be completely documented and open to the public.
IF you have never been subject to one then you will have a pleasant surprise waiting for you.
-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5278 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
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Well Curtis, you did a fine job of zeroing in on the crucial points. The "if you are not guilty" crowd, scares me. Sure only the innocent suffer and no one ever abuses their police or judicial powers. Yea, right. Mike, you got some learning to do, and that isn't from other countries.
-------------------- Wright Signs Wyandotte, Michigan Posts: 2787 | From: Wyandotte, MI USA | Registered: Jan 1999
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security verses freedom, umm now that's an interesting topic
not a safe topic... but interesting none the less
it will be fun to watch this one explode into all sorts of off the wall stuff
I have had many long conversations with up-overs who are amazed by the laws in my country
laws that hold people in remand jails for a couple of years before they even see a full day in court
laws that say if you are caught with anything illegal in your possession that constable plod can search and seize everything you own as being suspected of being obtained by illegal means
laws that make domestic violence ok if you are an addict... either a junky or a drunk
laws that give children hundreds of $$'s a week to run away from home and don't allow their worried parents any information as to their where abouts
try riding a motorcycle for a while and you find out all about predigest and it's use under the law
yes I'm sure all countries have strange and bizarre laws that someone at sometime thought was ok to enact, but sadly lots of laws never get changed when they are seen to be unworkable
passports to travel are really the small end of the wedge
like plod told a friend of mine once 'we are the largest armed gang in the country, no one can stand against us for long'
now lets all go sleep with one eye open
hehehe
cheers gail
-------------------- Gail & Dave Hervey Bay Qld Australia
gail@roadwarriorproducts.com.au
sumtimes ya just gota! Posts: 794 | From: 552 O'Regans Creek Rd Toogoom Qld 4655 Australia | Registered: Nov 1998
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David, I don't need to do any learning. I've lived overseas long enough to know the tiny bit of BS we have to deal with here is far outweighed by the possitives.
I suggest you go live in a communist country where they don't have any rights or protection/privacy at all for a while and maybe then your perspective will change.
As far as being "violated" having to be photo'd and printed to travel, I don't see the point in making a stink about it. Maybe in Canada things are different, but here in the United States EVERYONE is fingerprinted - it's been required by law for at least 20 years and they're doing the fingerprinting in schools to make it convenient.
So, between being printed at age 5 and having photo ID's like driver's licenses, it's pretty obvious that prints and photo ID is ALREADY on file... the deed has already been done... I'm not going to worry about it cause it's already a done deal.
In fact, if you have a social security number, you're already screwed.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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1984 is becoming more real everyday....its the "inocent" who also paid in germany as the "3rd rieche" took over the powers of govt. i see the same "appathy" & "fear" here and now with all the security....so it will "protect us" from all the bad guys!!! yea right.... hover over the "inocent" and people who will take this behavior....and the bad guys will still do as they wish!!!!
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Try having a GUN REGISTRY like we do in Canada, to "stop crime"- When was the last time a gang member walked down the street with his Dad's custom-engraved Ithaca shotgun??? Or a .300 Savage lever-action???? My dad had 8 guns and sold most to get rid of the nuisance factor in registering them...and all that at the measly cost of $1 **BILLION**.
On another note: I did travel to the USSR in '87, and believe me, we are getting off easy. People who live in Canada or the US don't realize how other countries' citizens get grilled just to go on vacation, let alone go visit another country.
-------------------- Steve Burke Cascades Inc NS Canada
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving isn't for you Posts: 359 | From: NS Canada | Registered: Jan 2002
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Is that the criteria now, how we compare to communist or third world countries? Maybe I can start eating more fast food crap so I can't complain about the over cooked prime rib at the nice restaurants.
I would rather compare our present condition to how we lived 50, 100, or even 150 years ago in terms of general liberties and freedoms.
I am surely not going to use Bulgaria, Russia, Cuba or even Mexico as a benchmark of how well we have it.
-------------------- Wright Signs Wyandotte, Michigan Posts: 2787 | From: Wyandotte, MI USA | Registered: Jan 1999
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I'm not totally against the fingerprinting idea for a few reasons.
I can understand the justification these days, especially with the current "threat" of terrorism that seems to permeate the news every night. I do have reservations as to what would define "too far" in such cases.
Other posts mention 3000 lives. If it saves one, it is worth it. Especially innocent lives.
We do tend to take our rights and freedoms as something precious here, but they have been changed since Spetember 11th, 2001. To not consider the changes signifigant would be dangerous. Sadly, many of us who hold to the ideals of freedom have had to watch those freedoms be challenged and alterd over the last two years. In that aspect, Osama Bin Laden and his gang have done what was once thought to be impossible...changed the way we live. Until that situation is changed, for the time being, we may have to make adjustments we don't really care for. Hopefully not for long. Travel across the world has bee altered drastically and security is now a major concern. In the past it was not and the freedon to travel has suffered the most as a result. Such is the nature of the acts of terrorists. It is one of the goals they have in every incident they inflict upon all nations.
Rapid
-------------------- Ray Rheaume Rapidfire Design 543 Brushwood Road North Haverhill, NH 03774 rapidfiredesign@hotmail.com 603-787-6803
I like my paint shaken, not stirred. Posts: 5648 | From: North Haverhill, New Hampshire | Registered: Apr 2003
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But I'd say...first it's fingerprints and retinal scans...then it's gonna be 666 on your forehead or you can't buy groceries.
What's a little 666 on your forehead for food? So you sell your soul for some salmonila ladden beef jerkey?!
I say...let's skip the breech of privacy...how about a full body xray to make sure you don't have any C3 platic explosives up your butt and let's call it good.
At least no one knows who you are and the guilty whackos with explosives up their orafices can be quickly collared.
I'm with the federalists. Guns, God, and Rock and Roll....hmmm....wonder if George woulda liked Bob Segar?!
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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Those that think it's OK for the govt to know so much about us should consider if govt is trustworthy.
Ultimately, it's a cause and effect situation.Flame me if you wish, but my understanding is that in some things you get exactly what you want: Avoid God, and he'll avoid you. Yes, I too compare where we're at to times past, and you don't have to be stuck in any one era. You can live by old fashion standards where it suits you, if you don't mind being different. It won't free you from ALL the curses brought upon an ungodly nation, but some it will.
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
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I found the "other counrties are doing it" line of thinking interesting. Read the article of this link closely. One of our Supreme court judges thinks international law will become more important than the constitution on may issues.
Quote:"O'Connor, too, seemed to suggest in the ABC interview that the Constitution was far from the final word in governing America. Asked if there might come a day when it would no longer be the last word on the law, she said: "Well, you always have the power of entering into treaties with other nations which also become part of the law of the land, but I can't see the day when we won't have a constitution in our nation."
posted
I don't get the objections at all here. I was fingerprinted and photographed when I joined the Navy, my prints are already out there....as are hundreds of photos ...seems like a moot point to me.
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
It's funny that people now object to something that they have already agreed to in the past.
I'd bet most of us already have fingerprints or footprints documented (at birth, remember? your 'prints do not chhange) and if you have a driver's license your picture is already on file.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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Past permission does not mean present permision. Many people object now because of the hidden agenda and the pretence used.
For example. When the gov. started banning certain assault weapons they did not stop there at just assault weapons. Certain toys were banned or classified as assault weapons and highly regulated. C'mon now, why did they include toys. It was because the banners made decisions based on incorrect information. The consequences are that people are now objecting to certain requests out of mistrust. And more and more peopel are seeing that our civil liberties are slowly being removed to protect us when other more effective remedies are available..
-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5278 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
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I have never been fingerprinted or arrested. I do object to governments having access to anything about me. I dont trust government and never will.
So if its okay to be printed then I would assume its ok for the government to implant chips into each and everyone of us for our own protection. In case we should get lost or something. Its for everyones own good right?
In the future everyone will be monitored every second of the day. I hope I'm dead and gone before that time.
-------------------- Bob Stephens Skywatch Signs Zephyrhills, FL
posted
Okay, fingerprints, etc----hey, if it makes my life easier to travel and avoid border lineups, etc, then I'm for it. We have the option to pay for retinal scans for security at the Toronto Airport coming up soon----if you travel a week or so a year on average, something like stepped up ID should speed things along.
PASSPORTS--a gotta have. It does make things MUCH easier, whether your travel agent says you need them or not.
Onto Big Brother---anyone ever seen the Mel Gibson Movie CONSPIRACY THEORY? Okay, it's not a stellar movie, but the story----geeesh, it makes you think. Govt can tell what you're doing by so many things----Bank card usage, swipe card this and that, cell phones. Face it----liberties have gone out the window in many ways to make our lives easier. Are they actually monitoring?---who knows???
We have a toll highway here in Toronto now that takes a picture of your licence plate and sends you a bill in the mail. More than one cheating husband has been nailed on the monthly statement by an investigative wife (NO, it wasn't me!)...
posted
Like it or not personal privacy is a thing of the past. Big brother has been watching us for a long time and he is not who you think he is. Large corporations probably know more about us than we know about ourselves. Think about it, custom printed coupons when you visit the grocery store, pop up ads and spam when you surf the net and junkmail when you apply for a loan. This information is customized and sent to you because you are being monitored. I don't like the fact that the government is meddling in my personal affairs. I am not the problem. The problem is our government - who can't keep track of their own rocket propelled grenades and other goodies of mass distruction. And they want to be put in charge of handling my personal inforamtion? I think not. 9-11 and other terrorist acts are the price you pay for freedom. Yes, it is a high price but freedom is life.
Havin' fun,
Checkers
-------------------- a.k.a. Brian Born www.CheckersCustom.com Harrisburg, Pa Work Smart, Play Hard Posts: 3775 | From: Harrisburg, Pa. U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 1998
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curt hit the nail on the head. yes i had a footprint on my birth certificate, yes i have a S.S. number,(govt imposed) and a drivers license number(govt imposed) i have a voter registration number(again govt imposed), vehicle registration(govt imposed).i even had a DRAFT CARD!!!! had finger prints taken when i join the air force(needed some way to identify bodies in body bags)was given an serial number, different then my S.S.#.and a set of dog tags, why 2? if you got killed in battle, the little notch on your dog tag, was to be placed in between your front upper teeth, and then in the lower jaw, and then you drive the dog tag in between the teeth by slammin the lower jaw closed. the 2nd tag was kept and sent to HQ to make paperwork. now all this info that has been compiled on me....is not a problem for me. its the USE OF THIS INFO....for THE WRONG REASONS today and the availability of it to any agency that feels the "need to know"...WITHOUT MY KNOWLEDGE is what upsets me. we all love the 3 MAJOR CREDIT AGENCIES!!!! without your consent....they have your life in their hands. with out their blessings,,you cant buy anything!!!! and god forbid you dont have a CREDIT HISTORY...you are nothing. they say these agencies are NOT GOVT OPERATED.....yea....and the moon is green cheese!!!!!
[ November 04, 2003, 02:14 PM: Message edited by: old paint ]
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Fingerprints and pictures are done every day when you cash a check along with hundreds of rutine chores everyday, Americans have given away most of thier rites in every election hidden in the aggendas of corrupt polititions and our goverment, and this group has rites or that group, taking away from another untill people actually stand up for thier rites and beliefs we will all lose, look at 9/11 patriotisim was the in thing flags were on every car , house business, t-shirts everything you could put a flag on. where are they now ..someone might be offended and don't disagree. now we have the Patriot act if you think your free just get the goverment looking at you, the FBI no longer needs a search warrant to come in your house or business, phones can be tapped without a warrant, and hundreds of other laws just as violating, the goverment wanted the wireless companies to implement a tracking system to identify emergency 911 calls by 2005 they have and now the Patriot act has piggybacked on to it and if you own a cell phone purchased within the last 3 years it has a gps tracking chip in it that can pinpoint your lacation to within 150', or what about onstar on your vehicle, hey even Wal-mart now is experimenting with a gps tracking system for inventory that also has the capabillities to track products into your homes so market share can tell what products sell best in what erea's. All in the name of terrorist..we have all been mislead and missinformed in the name of something. We can't even pray in school or almost gone "In God We Trust" because some one might be offended. It was the standard when whoever got heer and now thier offended..go back if you don't like the arena we can not change everything to accomidate every one, if it is so bad why does so many want to be here. Just a rant that will not make any difference without support and more things will be taken away tommorow if we dont speak up..and mostly stop yelling at each other and yell loudly at our so called leaders. God help our kids they will not enjoy a 1/10 of what we did..
And the "assault weapon" ban is a complete political joke. If a gun looks mean...ban it? A semi-auto .22 can cause as much damage as a so-called Assault rifle. One is legal and the other is not mainly due to appearances. How stupid.
I think every family should own at least one....an armed society is a free society. Our founding fathers realized this. Criminals are like jackals...they only target the weak, defenseless, and unarmed.
Let a crook pass by your house as he's casing a neighborhood and see you shooting an AR-15 at a target out your back door. Guess what? He's not going to be busting in your window!
I feel sorry for people who have to fearfully put their hopes in law enforcement being able to get to their house in time to stop the rapes of their wives and daughters...I don't go around toting a gun in paranoid fear of being attacked, but it's comforting to know you're the master of your safety in a matter of seconds as opposed to several minutes.
Just say no to the freedom grabbers.
Now, let's all go back to baking cookies and quit posting politically controversial posts.
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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Hehehe....George, we're talking 40 acres, half of which is dense woods in a country setting...not in a city neighborhood. Let me clarify...shooting out my back door is opening up my slider, stepping out on the deck and shooting at a target. Rest assured, my neighbors are ok with this.
"Assault" weapons beckon imagery of someone charging the front line with gun in hand.....where does this rhetorical term come from? One can only guess...the freedom snatchers. The word "Assault" was purposely chosen as a word to instill fear in women, much like the reaction the word "rape" would yield.
The press routinely refers to this class of gun as "automatic weapons"...when in fact they are not. Automatic weapons are commonly known as "machine guns" in which engaging and holding the trigger results in an uninterrupted discharge of all loaded ammo so long as the trigger is depressed....whereas a legally purchased AR-15 shoots only one bullet per individual engagement of the trigger much like any other gun. It would be labeled a SEMI-automatic in that you don't have to cock a trigger between each shot fired but MUST engage the trigger for EACH and EVERY shot fired. No different than a typical .22 used for plinking cans.
So, in contrast to what a lot of the public has been lead to believe, AR-15's and their cousins DO NOT spray a fountain of bullets causing mass casualties, riddling the sides of cars, and cutting trees in half. Are they dangerous? Yes, they can be. All guns must be treated safely and with respect. It's dangerous taking that first step down the basement stairs too...so it's not advisable to wear a blindfold while attempting it.
AR-15's are commonly used in national target shooting matches, target shooting, varmint control, etc. Some people even use them for deer hunting, although the bullet is a might small for that use. They are an excellent deterrent weapon for protection of personal liberties, but only if they are widely owned which is why I advocate everyone having one. Governments would prefer people didn't own them because of the power they give the general public in keeping a check on government(s) governing against the people's will.
Goerge Washington and the Patriots weren't able to sustain America's freedoms by using sticks, and we are not such a sophisticated society that it couldn't happen again. If you look at your next presidential ballot you'll see that there are candidates from Socialist and Communist parties....always trying to get a foothold into controlling your every move. I don't consider that paranoia. I enjoy the freedom I have.
I don't think you can count on one hand instances in which legally purchased "assault" weapons were used in a violent or non-violent crime.
The freedom snatchers would have you believe that crimminals are standing in line at every bank and residential neighborhood waiting for their turn to inflict massive casualties with the AR-15.
[I can only think of 2 instances where this weapon was used in a high profile crime in recent history - - the LA Bank shooting in which the weapons were illegally attained fully automatic variants - which are not available to the public through any dealer, and the recent "Sniper" case out east. There are far more cases where mass carnage was inflicted WITHOUT the use of firearms by nuts like Jeffery Dahmer and and Gasey.]
They (AR-15's)are a variant of the M-16, and are held in high regard among people in the sport for their long range accuracy and relatively simple design.
This is my take on eroded freedoms in the area of firearm restrictions. If this is considered political .... feel free to strike it from the thread, but I think it's a valid response to the question posed.
[edited addition---] Let me add, as I take it for granted as my own private pratice, that all guns and ammo should be safely out of reach of children and all gun users should go through an NRA approved safety training program prior to using a firearm. Safety first...
posted
Yes a small handgun can Kill just as easy as a Larger Semi Rifle, Just look at the nut on tv emtying his revolver at the lawyer hiding behind the tree, I wonder if a Background check was done on this guy, and did he do any "Safety" training. It was like the wild west, You guys have a catch 22 situation, dammed if you do, dammed if you don't.
I'm just glad that Canada has controlled the gun situation here, it is'nt out of hand, and I hope and pray that it stays this way, especially for my Child.
-------------------- "Keep Positive"
SIGNS1st. Neil Butler Paradise, NF Posts: 6277 | From: St. John's NF Canada | Registered: Mar 1999
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There are very few statistics published in the media about how many crimes were prevented with a firearm..
That prevention happens every day dozens of times. The stats are available but the liberal do goods will not talk about it.
In Oz where guns were removed from public hands ,, it seems to be that crime against unarmed people is increasing at an alarming rate. Hmm .. is that what we really want?
In UK the police have guns, but they are kept locked in special vans. If the police need a firearm they must call for the van to bring one. Now is that why some in the UK are assaulted even though the police are at the scene?
-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5278 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
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Curtis, here in Newfoundland the police starting carrying firearms only about 5 years ago, they really don't need them now in my opinion, but that is debatable, I live in St. John's the capital with a population of about 200,000 give or take a few, the police have been here for a very long time, There has been no Deaths in St. John's due to police shootings, there have been only a few shootings, by individuals over the decades, why? Because we have Gun Control, We don't have Gun stores on every street corner, we don't have Banks giving out Guns when you open an account, is that crazy? In my mind it is, more than crazy.
-------------------- "Keep Positive"
SIGNS1st. Neil Butler Paradise, NF Posts: 6277 | From: St. John's NF Canada | Registered: Mar 1999
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The 1998 National Safety Council Figures for Unintentional Deaths For 0-14 years old All Auto ----------------------------2600 Falls--------------------------------160 Poisoning(solids/liquids)------------70 Pedestrian(1) -----------------------580 Drowning-----------------------------850 Fires/burns--------------------------570 Suffocation(ingested)----------------200 Firearms-----------------------------110 Poisoning(gases/vapors)--------------50 All Other----------------------------500
For 15-24 years old All Auto-----------------------------9300 Falls--------------------------------240 Poisoning(solids/liquids)------------600 Pedestrian---------------------------554 Drowning-----------------------------650 Fires/burns--------------------------230 Suffocation(ingested)----------------60 Firearms-----------------------------310 Poisoning(gases/vapors)--------------60 All other----------------------------1150
Looks like automobiles and swimming pools should have been banned years ago. You'd be better off buying a gun and getting rid of the swimming pool in your backyard.
In New Jersey the murder rate, forcible rape rate, and robbery rate per 100,000 in 1998 was 4.0, 22.5 and 309, respectively. (The Disaster Center, Source: FBI Uniform Crime Reports [http://www.disastercenter.com]). In Massachusetts, with its slightly more liberal carry laws shows the murder rate, forcible rape rate, and robbery rate per 100,000 was 2.0, 27.4, and 96.6 respectively. (The Disaster Center, 1998 figures) Contrast that to Vermont, which has a murder rate, forcible rape rate, and robbery rate per 100,000 of 1.5, 26.5, and 13.4, respectively. (The Disaster Center, 1997 figures) Vermont allows anyone, non resident or resident, to carry concealed or unconcealed without a permit. Pay attention to Vermont’s 13.4 per 100,000 robbery rate and contrast it to New Jersey’s 309 per 100,000 robbery rate. New Jersey’s robbery rate is twenty times higher than Vermont. Washington D.C. has outlawed handgun ownership within the city limits, yet it has one of the highest murder rates in the country.
Neil....banks (I notice that was in the plural form) that hand out guns??? You must be catching a skipped tv signal from el Jazeera or something....banks don't give away guns.
More guns equals less crime...are you seriously comparing your country to the US? I think our population especially amoung major cities dwarfs yours...
What's ironic is you seem to have more of a fear of gun violence WITH gun control. I have children and guns and have absolutely no fear of them being killed by a gun. I'm infinately more worried they might get run down by a car when they are jogging down the street.
The problem with gun control advocates is that they throw out unsubstantiated rhetoric out of their passionate fears.
"Banks giving out guns.....gun stores on EVERY corner..." C'mon.
Did you notice the nut that tried to shoot the lawyer from a distance of 24" failed to even seriously wound him? That's because handguns are extremely difficult to shoot accurately without proper training.
If for instance (and this is just a hypothetical) some guy stopped his car as I was walking along the side of the road, pointed a gun at me and told me to "get in or die"....I'd simply run away every time in a zig zag pattern.
My chances of being lethally hit by a handgun would be slim.
Ok...I'm done ranting...no more gun posts for me...whew.
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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OP don't believe everything your told. The jamming of dog tags in the teeth of military personnel is a myth. The notch was for alignment of the blank tag in the embossing machine. Do a little research on the history of the dog tag and you find your information is false although many myths of the sort are floating around out there. The following is piece from some of my research.
By World War II, the circular disc was replaced by the oblong shape familiar to us today, generally referred to as "dog tags."
Since then, some myths have arisen in connection with the purpose of the identification tags. One of the more common myths involves the reason for the notch on the tag issued between 1941 and the early 1970's. Battlefield rumor held that the notched end of the tag was placed between the front teeth of battlefield casualties to hold the jaws in place.
No official record of American soldiers being issued these instructions exists; the only purpose of "the notch" was to hold the blank tag in place on the embossing machine. The machine used at this time doesn't require a notch to hold he blank in place, hence, today's tags are smooth on all sides.
-------------------- Rob Larkham Sign Techniques Inc. Chicopee, Ma Posts: 607 | From: Chester, Ma. | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
Hahaha...Mike...good question. I guess these things snowball. Looks like it segway'd from fingerprints to liberties in general and then on to guns.
Guess freedoms/privacy in general is a hot button topic.
Interesting how few gun related deaths there are in the US based on per capita/population.
Here's some other interesting facts to keep in mind when comparing countries and crime:
USA - population 290,342,554 (2003 est) Life expectancy - 74.37 male, 80.05 female
UK - population 60,094,648 (2003 est) Life expectancy - 75.74 male, 80.7 female
Canada - population 32,207,113(2003 est) Life expectancy - 76.44male, 83.38 female
I didn't realize it until I researched it, but the US has an enormous population in comparison to a lot of countries.....and for all the garbage we eat...we have a surprisingly similar life expectancy to the UK and Canada in spite of gun ownership. Hehehe.
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Curtis hammond: In UK the police have guns, but they are kept locked in special vans. If the police need a firearm they must call for the van to bring one. Now is that why some in the UK are assaulted even though the police are at the scene?
Curtis these vehicles are termed ARV or Armed Response Vehicles and the officers are armed usually with 9mm's and HK MP5's and there are more of them now than ever, gun crime is on the increase at the moment but only within the drug crime scenarios in the larger cities and there is talk of more officers being armed, but I feel safer in this country where you cannot legally own an AR15 than I would in a country where yopu can, the whole idea of owning a gun of any kind is totally alien to me and yes I have handled many during military service, from Browning 9mm's to 80mm Carl Gustav Anti Tank weapons. You americans go on about your freedoms BUT come to a country where there isn't a gun shop in every street and feel really free (and safe). Oh and according to Todds population statistics and Mikes firearm related murders the UK is a lot safer then the US , the US has 5 times the population of the UK and 123 times more firearm related killings 8529 in the US as compared to 69 here, want to move to the UK? Ill teach you to drink real beer and how to play a mans game (rugby)
[ November 06, 2003, 05:18 AM: Message edited by: Stephen Broughton ]
-------------------- Steve Broughton Alpha Grafix Signs Lowfields Road Benington, Boston Lincolnshire, England Posts: 315 | From: Boston, Lincolnshire, England | Registered: Aug 2001
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