posted
We've been in business eight months and still don't have a good sign or logo for ourselves --- nothing seems right. We've come up with some words for our desired image: sandblasted, quaint, New Englandish, tourist, variety, clarity, faith, beautification. Anybody wanta give it a shot. Oh, we're small town Canada if that inspires anyone. Thanks! Mel
They got customers because they showed their craft off, they showed their ability off.
If you can't make your own sign, how can you make one for someone else? I can see where a barber can't give himself a haircut, but a sign maker can certainly make his own sign.
If you are supposed to be the leader in the community that produces professional signage, shouldn't you also know how to design an eyepleasing sign?
I don't mean to be rude here, but if a guy went into the business of building houses and then went on an international bullentin board asking other carpenters how to build a house...wouldn't you think that rather odd?
You should have some programs like Corel or other sign making programs and clip art disks that have some shapes other than a rectangle. Paint stores carry other colors than white and there are over 7000 fonts so you have more choice than HEVETICA these days.
Open any sign magazine and imitate what you see. If you can't build what you see professional sign makers building, then you better stick to the quickie stickie magnetic sign on your vehicle and forget it!
Point is: everybody has to learn, so get in there and just do it. If you don't like the first sign you make for yourself, then make a better one. Then make a better one than that. That is how we all learn.
Welcome to Letteville. You just got baptized! hahahahah
------------------ Draper The Signmaker Bloomington Illinois USA Stop in and visit a while! 309-828-7110 signman@davesworld.net Raptorman or Draper_Dave on mIRC chat
Posts: 2883 | From: Bloomington Illinois USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
The first couple of years I was in business I had several logos and matching signs for my shop that went with them. I finaly came up with a design I likes and stuck with it for about 5 years. Here about I year ago I decided I needed a new look, so I trashed the old one and started over. The one I have will probally start looking outdated in a couple of years (I tend to follow the trends). So when, that happens, I'll just start back at the begining again. THe easiest way to come up with something is to just start doing it, eventually you will come up with one you like.
------------------ Greg Gulliford aka MetroDude Metro Signs and Banners 1403 N. Greene St. #1 Spokane, WA 99202 509-536-9452
posted
I remember an old guy in North Michigan about 40 years ago. Called his shop "Signs of Life.......Still".
------------------ St.Marie Graphics & Makin' Tracks Sound Studio Kalispell, Montana stmariegraphics@centurytel.net http://www.stmariegraphics.com 800 735-8026 We're chiseling every day of the week! :^)
posted
Hi Melanie...Welcome to Letterville...Don't mind Draper, he is just in a bad mood today!!!!!!! (just kiddin Dave) I didn't read that you weren't capable of producing a good looking sign, rather you are having a difficult time coming up with a "concept" for your own business identity.
Personally, I have had about 4 or 5 different "logos" for my business. It is probably the MOST difficult thing..to come up with something for yourself, since you are probably your own worst critic.
Just do one to start with and then change/improve it as you gain confidence.
------------------ Dave Grundy AKA "applicator" on mIRC "stickin' sticky stuff to valuable vessels and vehicles!" in Granton, Ontario, Canada 1-519-225-2634 dave.grundy@quadro.net www.quadro.net/~shirley
posted
im not in a bad mood but I have always wondered why no one replied as Dave did when others ask the same question. Again Im not trying to be nasty but it does seem to me that someone in the design business would be able to design their own logo or maybe do a bunch and come here and ask opinions on them as some folks have done. Dont people in the business spend any time anymore researching design and type faces and looking at other designs and reading books? Seems I remember Dave or maybe someone else once saying they liked to go to supermarket and study the different label designs. This sort of thing is a continual persuit with people who really love design and want to stimulate their creativity.
posted
Man...so much for getting you guys to design this billboard project for me. Crap, what good is this place if you can't get FREE DESIGN WORK outta AWARD WINNING PROFESSIONAL sign makers....good grief, you guys sure are snooty!
(Seriously Mel, I took my "lumps" when I first got here, and you have to too. Ya gotta learn how things work around here. Realize that the names you see here are living breathing people with shops, families and "design Blocks" the same as you. It is ALWAYS hardest to come up with a look of your own, but it is IMPERATIVE that YOU do this.. It is an important hurdle to overcome...)
We've all been there...take the plunge! You will either do well, or skin yer nose and start over!!!
Barry
------------------ Master's Touch Signs & Screenprinting Clinton AR 5017456246 ICQ 17430008 "Imagine the Possibilities..."
Posts: 2500 | From: Clinton, AR USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Sarah..Please distinguish between the "Daves"...call me "Grumpy" and call him "Draper" or whatever... I just don't want to be confused!!!!!!!!!
And by the way, I DO think that designing your own logo is probably the most difficult job that you will ever have. And I did look at a lot of magazines and it was a picture in an article in SignCraft about the Belvedere meet that caught my eye and I patterned my current "identity" after it.
------------------ Dave Grundy AKA "applicator" on mIRC "stickin' sticky stuff to valuable vessels and vehicles!" in Granton, Ontario, Canada 1-519-225-2634 dave.grundy@quadro.net www.quadro.net/~shirley
posted
I asked awhile back for help with my logo...it's not that i couldn't come up with something cool, it's just that after looking at the word 'splash' a million times i just couldn't think of anything new and original....if were a different name maybe..... I STILL havn't come up with something......
I'll be happy to trade logo ideas if someone else is in the same rut! A
------------------ Adrienne Morgan Splash Signs www.splashsigns.com "Rainkatt'
posted
Oh Man, I feel your pain, I custom paint for a living I've done it for 25 years and have had tons of happy customers but........... I have never done anything on my own vehicles cause I get bored with it too quickly. the only thing I've ever done for my business is a small trailer.
the problem here is that you know your sign is gonna tell everybody all about you at a glance, and thats a lot of pressure on you as an artist. my advise? treat yourself like you are your own customer. good luck Mike
------------------ Work like you don't need the money, Love like you've never been hurt, And Dance like no one's watching. :) Mike Lavallee Mike Lavallee's Pinstriping & Airbrush Art Everett, WA
Posts: 449 | From: Everett, WA | Registered: Dec 1998
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posted
OK people. Enough is enough. I think it was Grundy that said "you are probably having problems coming up with a ocncept." I agree. One thing that my graphics teachers have stressed is word assocation lists. If you have never done this, here's what you do. Get a pencil and paper, think about the name of the business and just start writing down every word that comes into your mind...no matter how dumb or off base it might seem at this time. Make a list of 10-20-30 words. The more the better. Lets see...I'll get you started. SIGNS OF EXPRESSION
GRIN SMILE LIPS TEETH WINK GRIMACE CHEEKS WONDER STARE
How's that for a start? Next thing to do is start doing some thumbnails. I am more an artist/manager personality so sometimes designs can be tough getting started but the thumbnails help a great deal.
------------------ Laura Butler Vision Graphics and Sign 560 Oak St. Lapeer, Mi 48446 810-664-3812 visiongraphics@tir.com
"Anything thats comes from my shop, comes from the right brain."
[This message has been edited by Laura Butler (edited February 07, 2001).]
Posts: 2855 | From: Attica, Mi, USA | Registered: Nov 2000
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posted
Sargent Lavallee, you make a lotta sense! it is very tough for the signshop to come up with something they are satisfied with. it is a constant struggle here at my one-man shop, (i have too look at my truck every morning as i climb in it!) http://www.markfair.com/bootcamp.html
by the way, your flames are the best in the biz! had ta bootlick!!! sorry,
posted
okeydokey my few cents worth....... :P why not put internet EMOTICONS like the ones shown when you post, or in the chat, and make em really nice, airbrushed, full color...all in a row across a cool textured panel of some sort, and then in some sort of Minimalistic way add the name/slogan cross the bottom in legible but balanced copy: "a SIGN of Expression!!"
just a few ideas anyhoo
B
------------------ Master's Touch Signs & Screenprinting Clinton AR 5017456246 ICQ 17430008 "Imagine the Possibilities..."
Posts: 2500 | From: Clinton, AR USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I wasn't in a bad mood, and I didn't mean to sound grumpy or rude. If you were to ask another signmaker in your same town to come up with an idea for your sign it would just be unthinkable! ( at least to me )
Sign makers get their ideas for their own signs by buying sign layout books, researching clipart volumes.
It's just a fricken sign! Nobody else cares what your sign looks like! As long as it looks professional it will do the intended job...namely...direct people to your shop! Period!
This isn't about making a sign for yourself is it? This is more about dealing with your inner insecurities.
------------------ Draper The Signmaker Bloomington Illinois USA Stop in and visit a while! 309-828-7110 signman@davesworld.net Raptorman or Draper_Dave on mIRC chat
Posts: 2883 | From: Bloomington Illinois USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
When someone comes to me for a logo design or a sign, I ask the appropriate questions of them, in order to get to know them, the nature of their business, and their intentions with it. In the case of a sign, I also take into consideration the environment and look of the building.
Who knows those answers better than you about your own circumstances? Look around, ask yourself the same questions, and evaluate what you are trying to accomplish for yourself. Then get to work with references, and ideas that best convey that to your liking.
I did take your words as an invitation to actually do the design and I feel similarily to Sarah & Dave Draper on this. I think it's a cop out to ask others to do for you what you propose to do yourself for others on a professional level.
Only with your effort will your image evolve. Just put a pencil to it and start the wheels turning. Your ideas will feed on each other.
When you work for yourself, ... it's often difficult to work for yourself. Take the challenge.
Nettie
------------------ "When Love and Skill Work Together ... Expect a Masterpiece"
Start packing and move in! It's just too easy to be a Resident! Location, Location, Location! It's all right here! http://www.letterhead.com/supporters
posted
Melanie, You gave a few descriptive words of your environment. Assuming they fit the architecture, this might be some possible instruction.Start looking at the colonial shapes. Find something that'll fill gracefully into the environs. Consider size and color and mountings. Proportions are important. Next task would be to find lettering that fits the mood and is consistant in flavor to the shape. You don't want to put a modern super graphic busting off the page of a colonial shape. Lettering and graphics should work without color to be a strong design. Don't overpower the format or be so understated that it needs to be figured out. Go to the library and look at some photo's to get an idea of the area and history of shapes and letterforms of that period. Then draw it and then modernize it. Simple, huh?
------------------ The SignShop Mendocino, California "Where the Redwoods meet the Surf"
Oh, for the faith of a spider! He begins his web without any thread.
Posts: 6806 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I have to agree with everyone else on the matter. If you are in the business, it doesn't reflect very well on your part if you have to ask others to design your logo..
Remember this is your pride and joy of owning a small business and you have the time to sit down and think about it's look.
Start with your concept and work with it over time. Little by little you will come to finest finished product that you really like! Work it and study it to the point of no return. You have no deadline like some of your customer ask for! Just get the name out there and work on it as you have your down time. Image is something we all in this business know is it's own worst enemy. I know over the years I have changed my look well over a dozen times and still not happy with it..Each time it's fresh and new but it grows old and time for a face lift!
Try it you'll like it!!!!
Raven/2001
------------------ Raven/2000 Airbrushed by Raven Lower sackville N.S. deveausdiscovery@sprint.ca
Posts: 4327 | From: Lower Sackville, Nova Scotia, Canada | Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
Thanks for the responses --- my fear posting this was that no one would respond! We have followed much of your "just do it" advice and did up a sign just so we'd have one. I know we can make a new one anytime since that's the business. It was when I discovered the price of brochures and coloured business cards that I decided it better be worth it. So I'll go back to the pile of pictures and drawings I have and apply much of what you said. Thank you.
posted
Yow! This is one of those threads that DESERVES the flaming icon.
Everybody does things they're own way, I guess. Personally I love designing, and playing around with my own logo. The name of my business was chosen before I started; I did my own sign for it while still employed for another shop (so I could get some instruction out of it!) but I can remember not knowing what I'd call myself. Over the years (13 and counting) I've re-designed my logo a half-dozen times, and most of those re-designs are still around my shop. Some might see that as inconsistent; I prefer to think that I'm showing potential clients the various possibilities of design using the same copy.
My old friend, the late Clyde Muller, once asked me to design a sign for his shop, explaining that he had looked so long and hard at his own ideas that they all felt stale. I was honored by the request; in no way did I feel like he was picking my brain because he wasn't competent. I did some designs but none of them ever became anything; Clyde never did do a proper sign for himself - he was too busy designing and selling his sign blanks to the trade, making OTHER shops look good.
Be gentle, folks. There are a lot of ways to look at this kind of request, and most of them don't deserve harsh treatment.
------------------ "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. - Raoul Duke (Hunter S. Thompson)
Cam Finest Kind Signs 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988"
Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
www.coloritprinting.com I have seen these guys work first hand and have used them for 2 projects so far. They absolutely ROCK. I can honestly say that i have the coolest BIZ cards in my area period thanks to these folks...Full color front printing, plus FREE GRAYSCALE on the back!! 1000 cards on HEAVY SLICK STOCK.....all for just $83
Not bad if'n I do say so m'self...
They are also reasonable for brochures and stuff.......
B
------------------ Master's Touch Signs & Screenprinting Clinton AR 5017456246 ICQ 17430008 "Imagine the Possibilities..."
Posts: 2500 | From: Clinton, AR USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I'm very glad that Melanie chose not to view the responses here as harsh. I know the intents were nothing of the sort. Just personal views on being expressed on it.
Melanie ... when you get some preliminary designs together, we'd love to see them. You can let us know your direction with it then while we are looking at something and perhaps we can better help with input towards your layout then.
If you'd like to post something to show here, and don't know how, just email me and I'd be happy to post it for you..
Good luck! I'm sure it'll work out fine. Just know that you don't have to commit to the first design you do. As artist's, we have the license to experiment with our own image ... until we get it just the way we like it!
Nettie
------------------ "When Love and Skill Work Together ... Expect a Masterpiece"
Start packing and move in! It's just too easy to be a Resident! Location, Location, Location! It's all right here! http://www.letterhead.com/supporters
I know how hard it feels to do things for yourself. I don't think I am that bad at designing for people, but when it came to my own I felt like I had my thumb stuck up my **s. I looked thru many pictures books and magazines. I happened across something that I thought really suited me and went about "borrowing" all the design elements and colors I then redrew it to suit my name etc, and felt that would be OK....maybe I was lacking confidence in myself, I don't know...anyway time went by....and somebody here noticed it and its similarity to Jay Allens, and told him about it, he contacted me and asked about something we apparently had in common etc. We had a discussion about it here on the BB, and most decided all though it was a close "copy". No harm done life goes on etc....It made me feel really silly, but I had been using it for sometime and stuff printed etc...and then the fact that we are 1000's of miles apart in different countries. So haven't changed it much. I had no idea who he was at the time or anything like that, just took "idea fodder" from the trade journals which is one of the reasons they exist. I think we all need to have more confidence in our abilities in this business often we are our own worst enemies. I dont think it is about just slapping a sign up you want to give as good an image profile out to your customers as you can, and as signs are your business that should be tip top.
Sketch a little or show us what you have come up with maybe we can help you abit, there are plenty of great and talented people here.
------------------ Henry Barker #1924 akaKaftan SignCraft AB Stockholm, Sweden. A little bit of England in a corner of Stockholm www.signcraft.se info@signcraft.se
Posts: 1552 | From: Stockholm, Sweden | Registered: Nov 1998
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What artist, looking in your eyes, could not see a warm summer sunset? While youth has left, your eyes reveal the beautiful loving spirit you will always be.
(want me to go on?}
------------------ Draper The Signmaker Bloomington Illinois USA Stop in and visit a while! 309-828-7110 signman@davesworld.net Raptorman or Draper_Dave on mIRC chat
[This message has been edited by Dave Draper (edited February 07, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by Dave Draper (edited February 07, 2001).]
Posts: 2883 | From: Bloomington Illinois USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Over the 20 plus years in business I have overdone my logo sometimes. It's too tempting to want to rework it when I know that it is best to leave well enough alone. The temptation is to overthink the design when it's your own and an outside perpective is always welcome. I would love to have Bob Behounek work on mine. Love his truck lettering especially.
------------------ Wright Signs Wyandotte, Michigan Since 1978 http://www.wrightsigns.bigstep.com
Posts: 2786 | From: Wyandotte, MI USA | Registered: Jan 1999
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posted
Maybe my memory doesnt't serve me too well, but didn't Glenn Taylor have a similar problem a ways back? Then he held the contest for all those designs. It didn't mean he wasn't capable or couldn't make his own design, but sometimes you get so picky when it comes to your own logo that nothing you come up with looks good to you. I don't remember too many flames when it came to his logo...nor have I seen any many flames when it comes to Rogers T-shirt contest. I'm sure Roger is completely capable as well. Don't read too far between the lines people.
------------------ Bruce Evans
Posts: 913 | From: Chino, CA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Thanks for your help --- I'll try to get a picture in here of our present sign and maybe will have something new to show you in the future. Tasmus - the printing site is terrific - much better than anything local I've found - thanks! (Note: would like to know the origin of your business name.) Janette - I'll contact you to see how to post on this site.
posted
Bruce ... your memory serves you well. At the time of Glenn's contest, I voiced the same feelings as I do here. They weren't in a flaming way then either. The fact is, I DO think Glenn was capable of creating his own logo, and that was the biggest reason that I, then, encourage him to do it himself. Fact is, not all jobs are easy ... and doing something for yourself is the most difficult. When I created my own image, I ran into the same roadblocks. But clearing that hurdle is something I'm glad I took on for myself.
I like the fact that I can tell folks that I created my own image, ... another selling tool.
I don't feel this way because I am not willing to help someone. Quite the contrary. When it was decided that Glenn was indeed to have a contest for his logo, I was among those who submitted designs.
However, I do still strongly feel what I expressed in both circumstances ... with perhaps no sugar coating, but certainly no flames attached!
Nettie
------------------ "When Love and Skill Work Together ... Expect a Masterpiece"
Janette Balogh Sign Studio in Sunny Florida [EMAIL]jbalogh@earthlink.net[/email}
[This message has been edited by Janette Balogh (edited February 07, 2001).]
posted
Mel.; Me-thinks your logo should reflect what is in your heart to satisfy the needs of the local industries, and posibly consider widening your "gate" to employ more things into your stride. Ultimately, things should gravitate towards what you like to do best.....
Kurtzman
------------------ Creative communication since 1959
I absolutely can't believe Dave Drapers response to this post. Dave who the hell do you think you are anyway? this person comes here to the letterhead BB and simply asked for our opinion and input on a problem that she was having designing a CRITICAL sign, a sign that will tell all her customers who and what they are all about. according to your professional wisdom, all a sign has to do is tell you what the place is and to get you into the store. if that were true than any restaurant sign should read " FOOD, COME IN AND EAT" or A Fine Art Gallery sign should read " NEAT PICTURES, HEY, CHECK EM OUT DUDE!" Let me tell you if thats what you really believe than I pity the people who put advertising they're livelyhoods into your hands. As for publicly chastising Melanie I feel you owe her and the rest of the letterville community an appology. where the heck is your letterhead spirit????
can you honestly tell the rest of us that you NEVER, EVER, asked any of your letterhead brothers or sisters they're opinion on a project that you where working on???? I believe I can remember a few posts from the past where you came on here and did just that very thing. Did we take your head off for doing that? NO! we supported you and encouraged you, we gave you constructive opinions, we did NOT tell you that your design looked remedial at best and you should consider a career in the food industry. how do you look in a paper hat anyway? Ya want fries with that? how does that feel to you Dave? of course I don't feel that way about you, but what if I did? what if I came here and said something as cruel as that in public? I truely believe that you could have better represented the letterheads with a helpfull hint or two, maybe suggested a sign design you saw or god forbid, actually did, to help them through this rough spot. or, if you didn't have anything helpful to say or add, DON'T ANSWER THE POST! I feel terrible that this person has been raked across the "coals of the professionals" God forbid anyone needs any advise here! Why do you go to letterhead meets anyways Dave? is it to share and learn or what?
man, Dave think about what the heck you say will ya? Mike
------------------ Work like you don't need the money, Love like you've never been hurt, And Dance like no one's watching. :) Mike Lavallee Mike Lavallee's Pinstriping & Airbrush Art Everett, WA
Posts: 449 | From: Everett, WA | Registered: Dec 1998
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Hi there! Welcome! Throw some of your ideas this way!
I guess, I can say, "Welcome to the School of Hard Knocks!" (you'll never regret it though!) A lot of experienced folks here.
Remember though, when Draper's up on a scaffold and he wants someone to hand him his thinner...... oh, no,,,, I'll pay for that (looking forward to seeing your ideas!) Deb
------------------ Deb Creative Signs
Posts: 5373 | From: Loves Park, Illinois | Registered: Aug 1999
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posted
Dave I know you were being nice but please dont go on. I dont need to be reminded I cant even remember when my youth departed LOL
Mike an opinion was asked and Dave and the rest of us gave an opinion while trying not to sound to harsh. Maybe I misunderstood but I thought the poster was asking for a logo to be designed for them and my feeling was that in this business one should be able to tackle their own. Now posting a bunch of samples and asking comments is another kettle of fish altogether and seems more appropriate.
OPinions were asked and given. This jumping down the throat of one who gives an opinion you dont agree to when they were asked, is what is driving people away from here and hurting feelings. Couldnt yo just have stated your own answer to the original post or maybe posted a design for her?
------------------
[This message has been edited by Sarah (edited February 08, 2001).]
posted
Melanie, I remember when I first started doing grpahic design and had to come up with a business card- that was my worst assignment ever!!! Too much pressure- to try to have a "resume" on a little card. Haven't done our truck and after a couple of years have finally done a big shop sign. A customer cancelled a sign after I had shaped and painted the blank so I threw some vinyl on it and it is just one more example to show (yes, he paid for the work done). We're getting a router so will have to put up a routed sign now.
Anyway, try to think about a "look" your community can relate to (we're a resort town so we use the '30's lodge look alot) and use the techniques you want to market (vinyl, wood, etc.). Come up with something you can modify easily for use on signs, trucks, cards, stationary, etc.
You'll note alot of shops go by the "message is number one rule" and just put up a big red SIGNS on white with maybe, maybe a black outline. Very effective.
Hmmm... still want to put our Golden Retriever on our sign... "the sign fetcher", Sierra Sign "fetching designs", "Balls and Mahls", "fetch n sketch"... oh, well, don't want to rush into anything and there's everyone else's signs to do anyhow.
------------------ Rick Cooper Sierra Sign & Award Lake Tahoe, USA www.engrave.pctrader.com $$$Letterheads Website Supporter$$$
"The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."
Posts: 135 | From: Incline Village, NV, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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:P 
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