posted
I have a customer that wants to paint an old west cartoon-type scene on the entire side of an air stream trailer. I have several questions:
1. Do you have to prepare the metal with anything special to make the paint adhere correctly? 2. What types of paint should I use? 3. Will it be as durable as vinyl, or more so? 4. Do we need to clear coat the final job?
Any information would be very appreciated, the customer has the drawing, we plan to project on the side of the trailer with an opaque projector and then just fill in with paint. She had considered just using vinyl which soon became cost prohibitive due to size and all the colors. So she will do the painting and I will just help out doing the tracing, etc.
-------------------- Vicki Powell Here's Your Sign 16048 Hwy 96 Ordway, CO 81063 VickiPowell@centurytel.net www.heresyoursign.biz Posts: 43 | From: Ordway, CO | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote: She had considered just using vinyl which soon became cost prohibitive due to size and all the colors
and second is she is going to paint it herself?
I wouldn't touch this one, sounds like a box of headaches waiting to be opened.
First let me ask, what part is she going to pay you for? the research and developement? the tracing?
I sure hope your not just doing this to help out and have some fun unless she is your sister or mother and even then I'd say be careful.
I would personally try to sway my customers into using HOK paint, spraying the whole job and clearing when done, if budget doesnt allow, One-shot, no clear. then vinyl as a last ditch effort.
If Vinyl was too expensive then my thought is she cant afford paint either. If she wants to paint it herself give her a high five and a pat on the behind and send her on her way. Let her figure it out for herself.
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
I have a Grumman truck that I need to letter, same as lettering the airstream. I need to combine vinyl & paint. I think I will be skipping the paint, and just using Avery's E-Z apply. Everyone I speak with says painting the aluminum is just too much of a hastle, and probaly won't last as long as my customer wants it to! If your cus doesnt want to pay for vinyl, she's definatley not going to want to pay for paint?!! Good luck..... Keep us updated, wondering how it will work out.
-------------------- Devin Fahie Sebago Signworks Rt. 302, Raymond, Maine 207-655-6622 devin@sebagosignworks.com Posts: 96 | From: Raymond, Maine | Registered: Jun 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
The best way I have found to prep aluminum is with X-I-M 100, then you can paint it or hand letter it with 1-Shot, it will stick like nobodys business. Prep it outside if you can it has a strong smell.
-------------------- aka:Cisco the "Traveling Millennium Sign Artist" http://www.franciscovargas.com Fresno, CA 93703 559 252-0935 "to live life, is to love life, a sign of no life, is a sign of no love"...Cisco 12'98 Posts: 3576 | From: Fresno, Ca, the great USA | Registered: Dec 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
Vinyl isnt always cheaper than paint. Many variables can dictate costs. If applied properly, paint will outlast vinyl by twice if not longer.
Problem I see here is that there is probably a lack of funding to even consider a project of this magnitude.
Devin, Averys E-Z apply only comes in certain select colors at this time. As I said above paint can outlast vinyl if done properly, but there are many variables to consider. right down to the quality of the substrate (and the finish on it)your putting either of them on and how you prep the surface.
Good Luck to both of you. It can be done. It has been done.
If its mill finish aluminum you can use a good quality automotive primer from a bodyshop supply and it will last a very long time. Most firetrucks are painted Aluminum and have been since the 70's.
-------------------- Harris Kohen K-Man Pinstriping and Graphix Trenton, NJ "Showing the world that even I can strategically place the pigment where its got to go." Posts: 1739 | From: Trenton, NJ, USA | Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
Francico, ive never heard of X-I-M 100, but I will give it a shot. I have never applied paint to a customers vehicle, it makes me a little nervous! Thats why I was thinking of using E-Z apply, luckly alot of the truck in Yellow & Red, which E-Z does come in. I may end up painting alot of this truck because the rivets in this rig are the size of freaking golf balls! Thaks for the advice Francicso & Harris, im a novice and could use all the help I could get!
-------------------- Devin Fahie Sebago Signworks Rt. 302, Raymond, Maine 207-655-6622 devin@sebagosignworks.com Posts: 96 | From: Raymond, Maine | Registered: Jun 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
from my old auto body days......paint will not stick to alum....we used to do the zinc chrom route...but still its hadr to keep it on the alum. and an airstream is got a finish on th alum...putin XMI on it might discolor it!!! vinyl is you best shot and remember it all compound curves..
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
This is "JUST" a suggestion for "JUST" her filling the design than you will be "JUST" helping her to trace! "JUST" let her do the whole job. Or "JUST" charge her for a paper pattern.
None of this sounds "JUST" to me
-------------------- PKing is Pat King The Professor of SIGNOLOGY Posts: 3113 | From: Pompano Beach, FL. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
After reading the above responses i didn't realize this trailer was aluminum. Just another reason to stay far away, Maybe you can get a digital print from Gregory and that would save on all the vinyl cutting and buying a bunch of rolls of colors.
But def vinyl is the way to go.
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
Thanks all for all the suggestions. I just don't know what to do with her. She's the artist and willing to do the painting, she wants me to help to get the design transferred to the trailer via opaque projector. I have the design (for one side, she wants another scene for the other side) already done in Omega, however, now she wants to add shadows and more and more and ... you get the picture. This is just part of the scene so far. I tried to discourage her yesterday, but now she switched to the painting idea and we're off again!!
-------------------- Vicki Powell Here's Your Sign 16048 Hwy 96 Ordway, CO 81063 VickiPowell@centurytel.net www.heresyoursign.biz Posts: 43 | From: Ordway, CO | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Beginning to sound like the "Customer from Hell" to me!
Airstream trailers are made of polished aircraft aluminum! They must be etched and primed to accept paint, not a simple process! Otherwise, it will peel off!!!!
-------------------- Si Allen #562 La Mirada, CA. USA
(714) 521-4810
si.allen on Skype
siallen@dslextreme.com
"SignPainters do It with Longer Strokes!"
Never mess with your profile while in a drunken stupor!!!
Brushasaurus on Chat Posts: 8831 | From: La Mirada, CA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
sell her the pattern or your time to put the outlines on the trailer...THEN TELL HER TO HAVE FUN PAINTING IT!!!! AND WALK AWAY!!!!!!! NO GAR-RON-TEE FROM YOU!!!! some people just cant take advice from others....and they need to do as they wish.....so let her make a mess!!!! you aint her mommy!!!!
[ October 29, 2003, 12:58 PM: Message edited by: old paint ]
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
Has anyone ever seen a painted Airstream?? No?? I don't think so.. If it was possible to do a good reasonably priced painting on them you would see them around.. Our local camp ground owner just told me he has never looked at a painted Airstream. Ive seen them with stickers all over them but never saw one with paint.. Good Luck..
-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5274 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
Yes, I can say that I've seen a painted Airstream, as I'm the one that painted it.It was long ago and the lessons learned from that experience are still vividly etched in my mind as a chore to NEVER bid on again!!!! I, true to my word, undertook task and applied paint to best of my ablility and products available then and completed with good success. What I had to do to get there, was nothing short of mind-boggling, first I had to educate myself on zinc-chromate, then learn how to acid-etch and etc. till I knew what I had to do to achieve results I had committed to. The only thing I will suggest to you and your problem, is to collect deposit for your artwork and layout time and let customer deal w/problems she's facing to get her trailer painted properly. I would ask for as large a % as you think she will pay in front and pretty well write off balance, as your customer is going to be ****ed off something bad in the near future when she finds out how involved and labor-intensive it is to achieve her end. My two-cents.......
-------------------- Frank Magoo, Magoo's-Las Vegas; fmagoo@netzero.com "the only easy day was yesterday" Posts: 2365 | From: Las Vegas, Nv. | Registered: Jun 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Terry, has suggested the method that I would choose. All of the pieces could be cut and then hand illustrated, then installed. It would give you an aluminum background, but, it is an Airstream. Since its a cartoon, it should look fine.
-------------------- "Don't change horses in midstream, unless you spot one with longer legs" bronzeo oti Jack Davis 1410 Main St Joplin, MO 64801 www.imagemakerart.com jack@imagemakerart.com Posts: 1549 | From: Joplin, MO | Registered: Mar 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
For a price and on the spot, I'd freehand it with a Stabilo and let her "paint" it. As we've read, painting will be a problem, and she can't afford vinyl. Also, remember what Old Paint said about compound curves. That'll make projection lots of fun, assuming you have the room and lighting conditions to do that.
-------------------- Bruce Williams Lexington KY Posts: 945 | From: Lexington, KY, USA | Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
No one has mentioned it so I will... locate Mathews "self etching" zinc chromate primer.
In my opinion , it's by far the best product on the market for painting aluminum surfaces.It's a 2 part system and dries in 15 minutes, allowing immediate application of paint and graphics.It can be rolled, brushed or sprayed (best sprayed).
All good sign supply houses carry this product or at least have access to it!
Guaranteed to hold the paint to the aluminum (follow the instructions).
All that having been said...It doesn't sound like this person has (or won't part) with the money this job is worth ,so unless you're just doing it as a favor or a hobby I'd run away from this one too.
I might mention (from the sounds of it)the cost of this product is probably higher than this client wants to pay...which really makes the vinyl option more appealing...you might mention the ease of removing vinyl should she tire of the graphics and want to change them or if she wants to sell the trailer later.
Good luck with what ever it is you decide.
-------------------- "Werks fer me...it'll werk fer you"
Terry: Avery's "Enamel Receptive" vinyl is only warrantied for 2 years. (No idea why, but that's what Avery's book says. Maybe they just don't want to take the rap if somebody's bad paint job eats up the vinyl or something).
Maybe this lady could just paint the AWNING instead of the trailer? She can do that with acryllics or house paints. Most Airstreams have roll-out awnings on at least one side.
Failing that... digital print. I expect the "cost of vinyl" issue is that she wants a multi-color job, right? Digital prints are what that's for. Warn her it might only last 3 years, but she could repaint over it herself then. You didn't say how BIG she wants this - but if its just 3' x 6' (is there a flat space with no window bigger than that?) she's looking at around $200. If she can't afford that... well, she can't afford your time to project and trace it.
-------------------- :: Scooter Marriner :: :: Coyote Signs :: :: Oakland, CA :: :: still a beginner :: :: Posts: 1356 | From: Oakland (and San Francisco) | Registered: Mar 2001
| IP: Logged |
This is just part of the scene so far. I tried to discourage her yesterday, but now she switched to the painting idea and we're off again!!
![[Dunno]](graemlins/dunno.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic