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The product I am lettering is called a Gate Arm Sleeve. It covers the gate arm that you see at a guard shack and protects the car hood if it comes down prematurely. It is made of some sort of vinyl similar to vinyl banner material. The lettering must be white reflective vinyl. I am using Avery 7 year reflective. I tried cleaning the surface with "hot" alcohol (we add 10-15% laquer thinner to beef it up) and also tried a heat gun, but the vinyl starts to lift in the corners by the next day, just sitting in the shop. I'm familiar with plasticizer migration, but usually the methods mentioned here takes care of that. There are hundreds of these to do, some stock legends, some custom legends. Any ideas? Thank you in advance.... Dan
-------------------- Dan Donnelly Atlanta, GA Posts: 139 | From: Atlanta | Registered: Jan 1999
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Hi Dan, from personal experience, when Reflective vinyl is needed, use 3M !!!!!! Had to reletter (3) Police cars after using Avery. Have been using 3M,with NO problems, from that point on. Have used other Avery products with no problems, but their reflective does not like me!
-------------------- Tony Vickio The World Famous Vickio Signs 3364 Rt.329 Watkins Glen, NY 14891 t30v@vickiosigns.com 607-535-6241 http://www.vickiosigns.com Posts: 1063 | From: Watkins Glen, New York | Registered: Sep 2001
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You guys really think it's cuz of the vinyl not being 3M? I use tons of 3M in my shop, and realize it is an excellent product, but I am using the Avery 7 year reflective stuff. I thought they had a pretty good reputation?? I will get some 3M in and test it, but, to be honest, I'm somewhat sceptical. (Don't take it personel, I'm not trying to offend It just seems to me that the fact that the lifting starts so quickly, that there may be more to this story. Thanks for the input guys, and any add'l. suggestions is appreciated.
Dan
-------------------- Dan Donnelly Atlanta, GA Posts: 139 | From: Atlanta | Registered: Jan 1999
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Guess What... I have 2 different types of "Reflective Viynls" sitting in my Studio. Both about a year old...
Now one has very low tack left to it! And the other has the same strength, as from day one... The one I like did cost myself alittle more in material cost.. but it has never let myself down.
-------------------- Stephen Deveau RavenGraphics Insinx Digital Displays
Letting Your Imagination Run Wild! Posts: 4327 | From: Lower Sackville, Nova Scotia, Canada | Registered: Jan 2000
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We striped a fire truck a few months back and the next day the guys brought it back because the vinyl was lifting. I called Avery, and what I was told was told was that for a while they used a "repositionable" adhesive, which required the initial squeegee, another squeegee an hour later, and then another the next day after it had spent the night in a controlled humidity/temp setting. Sure thing. Re-striped it with 3M.
However, the Avery rep did tell me that they stopped using the repositionable adhesive because of the pain in the butt application method, and replaced it with a more aggressive adhesive. But there is no way of knowing which adhesive is on the roll you just received. There are no markings on the packaging to differentiate between them. Could be a while before all of the crap is use up, and off of your supplier's shelves.
-------------------- Joe Endicott NEXCOM (Navy Exchange Service Command) Signing Programs Specialist Virginia Beach, VA jeendicott@msn.com
"I want to be Stereotyped....I want to be Classified." Posts: 681 | From: Virginia Beach, VA USA | Registered: Mar 1999
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I can tell you from experience (having had to remove it) that the 3m engineering grade reflective sheeting has a very aggressive adhesive, the most aggressive of any vinyl I use. This sheeting is usually not used for fleet graphics (too hard to remove) but is used mainly for traffic control signs. As far as reflectives go it's not that expensive, about $950(cdn) for a 48" x 150' roll.
-------------------- Mike O'Neill
It has yet to be proven that intelligence has any survival value. - Arthur C. Clarke
If the problem is plasticiser migration you may need to apply a barrier coat to the substrate...maybe someone else will have a product recommendation for this (none come to mind at the moment")
3M "Engineering Grade" Scotchlite is only recommended for flat, stationary signage applications.
[ October 22, 2003, 11:38 AM: Message edited by: Jon Aston ]
-------------------- Jon Aston MARKETING PARTNERS "Strategy, Marketing and Business Development" Tel 705-719-9209 Posts: 1724 | From: Barrie, ON, CANADA | Registered: Sep 2000
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The material used in that arm guard is probably coated with a bunch of silicone, teflon or other protectants to keep it from deteriorating being out in the elements day after day and/or to keep stuff like bird crap from sticking to it.
You say it's vinyl similar to banner material.. which should be a clue right there, we all know banners don't last for chit outdoors. UV and wind, rain, dirt, not to forget exhaust fumes are all going to take its toll on the material.
Alcohol and lacquer thinner are not going to crack any protectants the guard manufacturer uses on their product.
Pick up some Rapid Prep and I bet you'll have a much better experience.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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