posted
I'm sure I'm not the only one that deals with this on a constant basis.
Example....
Customer comes in wants a sign, lettering , whatever you do. Wants you do do magic on their business. Projects like these get me fired up, but then the next part kills me every time.
" what do you think I should write on this"?
How about pay your local sign guy more money?, how the hell would I know?????? Give me the info and I will make it look good, thats my job, what isnt my job is making decisions for you about your business and what your needs are as far as the message you want to project.
" well do you think that will bring sales in?"
again, what part of I am NOT a business consultant did you NOT understand..... the wording is not my job, I can make recommendations based on experience on what might be too much or what but actual content? .NO
dammit I am gonna make some hats each with embroidered job descrptions on them and hang em on a rack. Then along with it comes an hourly rate sign on my desk that matches each position.
Now I understand and enjoy the talkl that should go along with making sign decisions but damn I have enough on my plate to make the decisions for my own business not the ones for thiers.
Just ranting here, and wondering how others handle situations that turn you from a sign person into a business consultant.
[ October 18, 2003, 11:44 AM: Message edited by: Bob Rochon ]
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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I think what Bob is referring to is not helping a client develop their image but rather people who are too stupid to be in business for themselves and want you to hold their hand and make their decisions for them. The ones that don't have any idea what direction they want their business to take and really should be asking "would you like fries with that?" They come in and say "I want a sign" but they have no idea what they want to spend, what they want it to convey and want you to tell them what they should do to make their business profitable because they aren't smart enough to figure it out themselves.
While the image development is part of our job, writing their business plan and making decisions about how to run their business is not.
The only thing I can say is "It's YOUR business, not mine. I can advise you about signage, but running your business and making decisions about it are your responsibility not mine". What I really want to say is "Listen, dickhead, I run a sign shop, not YOUR business. I don't have a f*$&ing clue as to what you should emphasize about your business. If you are uncapable of making any decisions about it without someone holding your hand, quit wasting my time, take a business class or go work at McDonalds."
-------------------- Chris Welker Wildfire Signs Indiana, Pa Posts: 4254 | From: Indiana, PA | Registered: Mar 2001
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I thought that was a sign person's job... to get information about their client's business, then put together a design that works... guess it depends if it's a sign for indentification, or a sign with a list of pool rules or other informational sign.
Luckily I dont deal with many signs, but people ask me all the time what kind of graphics they should get for their cars, trucks, boats and jetskis.
When you get the same question all the time, it makes things easy for you.. You can put together your own list of questions to ask the client/customer to pump them for information. Just type up your own sheet of questions to ask, leave space for handwritten comments.. then run off a bunch of copies and keep them handy - Instant Interview! Read the questions right off the sheet, write in their answers!
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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i am a business consultant.....i convey two messages to my clients...when asked all those questions..K.I.S.S. and less is more. once they get these 2 suggestion ingrained on their "business idea", we get a sign made.....to say who, what, and how to get in touch with them. the one that drive me crazy are the ones who's business card has everything they do, all the pedigrees, home, work, cell, pager and web site!!!! and THEY WANT A SIGN THAT LOOKS LIKE THEIR BUSINESS CARD!!!!!!
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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No one truly knows how to be in business for themselves unless they've done it. More often than not, sign clients will be first timers in the business world. We've all started someplace, and hopefully, the help we've gotten along the way has not been forgotten.
While I wouldn't have the answers for folks on the specifics of their particular business, if I could help them get the answers for themselves by some of my questions to them regarding it, that's a plus.
Mike is seeing it my way here. I do ask them many questions about their business before designing anything for them. Helps me come up with something more effective for what they do.
The interest I take in their business benefits both of us in many ways. Their success is my success. It serves in cultivating better relations, and customer loyalty too.
But if you don't see it as part of your job description, or just don't want to do it then you could tell your customer to do some homework on what they want, and then return when they've got a clearer picture of things. I've sent customers away with homework assignments before.
Nettie
-------------------- "When Love and Skill Work Together ... Expect a Masterpiece"
posted
a sign can do many things, what I want some customers to do is at least know WHY they want a sign and what they expect it to do before they come in or at least be equiped to discuss it and come to a conclusion.
Kissy hit the nail right on the head. Some people are just numb from the neck up sometimes.
My favorite BC comic was when one guy comes in and says "I want a sign"
The signman asks " what do you want it to say?"
customer says " OUT TO LUNCH "
The sign man says " is this to hang up? or ar you going to wear it"
perfect example!
but at least he had a clue.
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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Having been in the tshirt & embroidery biz in the past, I know they get the same situations too.
So.......
Run with it. Since most of us have computer skills and have folks looking for a business image, why not take some of your design skills and offer them the option to pay to have it all done by you?
A great many printers, tshirt companies, and embroiderers use Corel and Adobe programs for design work. If the ideas you have are workable for all those other uses, with a little extra info on what formats and limitations might be involed with a jobber, you can take a design and upsell it's value.
Two good things can happen...an opportunity to branch out your services and, with a little luck, your jobber might have some work coming back your way.
The best part is that you don't really have much of a learning curve to deal with. Converting your designs to the jobber's needs sometime involves only a few clicks of the mouse. Some can even take your sign designs and convert them just as easily.
The part that makes it a little dicey is who you job to. I can think of a few not too far from you that would be ideal to work with if they are still around. (Haven't been living there or visited them for a while.)
Not everyone that comes in is gonna go for it, especially the "Hi. I-need-a-sign-and-don't-have-a-clue-what-I-need-on-it" types. But then again, you never know. You might be surprised.
Rapid
-------------------- Ray Rheaume Rapidfire Design 543 Brushwood Road North Haverhill, NH 03774 rapidfiredesign@hotmail.com 603-787-6803
I like my paint shaken, not stirred. Posts: 5648 | From: North Haverhill, New Hampshire | Registered: Apr 2003
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I've been told that I have a lot of patience with customers. I guess that may be why I tend to want to help people who may seem "numb from the neck up". Could it be I have "sucker" written on my forehead? hahahaaa
Thanks for the insight. Now I'll go back out in the yard awhile and try to find a clue.
Nettie
-------------------- "When Love and Skill Work Together ... Expect a Masterpiece"
posted
Janette I hope you didnt think I meant any of my comments toward you lol
I meant customers ar numb from the neck up, and I'm mostly talking about a select few lately, not all in general. For the most part I enjoy the process of collecting information and best fitting an image for the customer, just a few lately have pushed my buttons or maybe i'm running thin on patience.
Anyway I reread my last post which I was writing as you were posting and I think you might have taken me the wrong way. I hope I'm wrong.
and BTW I'm just ranting , I have had a couple of customers that I just want to strangle lately.
One lady is changing her focus and direction in the middle of her signage program and I'm getting frustrated because now all the signs arent going to flow with each other as far as theme. Which wasnt her focius in the begining. but anyway this too shall pass.
lol
[ October 18, 2003, 02:43 PM: Message edited by: Bob Rochon ]
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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Business Consultants?? Certainly!!! We are after all, in the business of communication, and part of that is to establish an image or an identity for our clients. In order to accomplish that, we have to open up and listen to what THEIR NEEDS are. Whether they are somewhat dense or stupid shouldn't really have a bearing upon how we treat them. It's their business and how they go about running it shouldn't really be too great a concern here. In Bob's initial post, even the most clueless client at least gave a significant "hint" of what her main requirement was: "Will this help sales?" or words to that effect. Well, in order to increase sales, she first has to COMMUNICATE to her customers, just where she is, what service or commodity she sells, and do this in a manner that attracts attention of those potential customers. Really now, is this clueless idiot really asking too much?? It would seem to me that if this was the actual dialogue, she was communicating her need far more effectively than the signmaker that she'd selected to do her work. I guess that it all comes down to "attitude" and whether you really WANT to be a "How can I be of service" type of person, as opposed to one who requires the customer to do ALL of the thinking, and simply become an "order-taker" type of business.
-------------------- Ken Henry Henry & Henry Signs London, Ontario Canada (519) 439-1881 e-mail: kjmlhenry@rogers.com
Why do I get all those on-line offers to sell me Viagara, when the only thing hardening is my arteries ? Posts: 2684 | From: London,Ontario, Canada | Registered: Feb 1999
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If you can serve up the right idea, you are more likely to get their job, and more future job as well. And don't forget to charge them a little extra for your brain work. I have one customer came in today, who wanted my help on lettering a new awning. He asked me whether he should put "English" or "Irish" grocery or "Imported". I told him "European Groceries", turned out that he also carries stuff from Italy and other euro-countries as well. He like it and I charged him a little extra for the sign.
-------------------- Peter Xing peter@wonderfulgraphics.com Wonderful Signs & Graphics 55 Chrystie Street New York NY 212 431 5957 Posts: 43 | From: New York NY | Registered: Jul 2003
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I understand your frustration, and by your second post I kind of figured this post was just a little bitc... er uh, vent fest on your part!
Incidentally, I have a good designer friend who I engage in vent banter with occasionally. I find it gets all the bugs out our system over some of the day to day stuff that comes with our biz.
I guess sometimes you hit a crossroad with customers that just seem to be beyond help and their own worst enemy. When you come up to that fork in the road, you can follow the sign that says "here's a challenge" and forge ahead, or the one that says "my competitor's next prob... er-uh, client" as you walk them to the door.
Luckily, customers that troublesome are scarce.
-------------------- "When Love and Skill Work Together ... Expect a Masterpiece"
posted
I understand what Bob is saying. When I first got my plotter, I did windshield lettering quite a bit. Seems like everytime I did one, I would ask them what they wanted on there and they would say, "Uh, I dont know, what do you think?" I dont do those any more, but still get customers that dont have a clue about what to call their business. I just put em on the clock and throw some ideas at em and see what happens. Sometimes just a few ideas from me gets them started and they are able to come up with something.
-------------------- Maker of fine signs and other creative stuff. Located at 109 N. Cumberland ave. Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-837-0242 Posts: 4172 | From: Ages-Brookside, Ky. Up the Holler... | Registered: Jul 1999
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with all do respect I think I didnt make my thoughts clear to you.
I not am over and above being service oriented and offer ideas with ALL my customers, actuallly I frequently call my customers to suggest things to them, I just had some real brain teasers lately thats all. I never expect the customer to do ALL the thinking but I do expect them to do some and convey to me what it is they wish to achieve with my services.
If they dont I cant help them! Plain and simple.
I had a guy I work for ask me to order a banner quite large, when I asked him what it was for he told me a mobile location for his business, he has a mobile truck. When I asked him what he wanted to say on it he had no clue, when I asked him what he wanted the banner to do he had no clue! ( see my point here ) he tells me the truck says it all. Then he asks me what I think it should say. Hence my post, how the hell should I know??????
did that make sense now?
This is not how I look at all customers just a few hiccups in the line.
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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quote:Originally posted by Ken Henry: ....we have to open up and listen to what THEIR NEEDS are. Whether they are somewhat dense or stupid shouldn't really have a bearing upon how we treat them. It's their business and how they go about running it shouldn't really be too great a concern here.
EXACTLY
It's sorta hard to listen to what their needs are, if they don't have the first clue what their needs are. And, yes it is their business. How they run it is NOT our problem. This was my point. It is not up to me to tell them how to run it, but that is what they're asking. I shouldn't be the one to tell them which of their services is more profitable, which they should emphasize. My job is to convey what they want to convey, not tell them what that is.
For example, Bob Burns posted recently about the guy who got a set of magnetic signs, then wanted his money back because he didn't get any business from them. This guy's whole business failed because his signs didn't have his phone ringing all day long? Maybe he had already created a bad rep for himself in his area, maybe his area was already full of people doing the same job, hell, maybe he was building in-ground swimming pools in Iceland.
I work with my customers, but seeing as it is their business, they do need to do some of the work themselves. My concern is their signage, image, etc. It is not to hold their hand and advise them on how to run their business. Most customers are great. But I think Bob is talking about the few that are so dense and are the last people who should be allowed to run a business... the ones that after talking to for a few minutes, makes you want to bounce your forehead off a steel post.
-------------------- Chris Welker Wildfire Signs Indiana, Pa Posts: 4254 | From: Indiana, PA | Registered: Mar 2001
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Gee folks, perhaps I'm hearing your customers throwing out some very significant "clues" here, but perhaps you're not picking up those from the conversations that you're hearing. In your example, Bob, the customer is saying that he wants to promote his "mobile business" by using a banner. Now, I don't know exactly what his business is, but the fact that he is "mobile" tells me that he goes to his customer's location to perform whatever service he does. Does this not suggest a headline that reads: " We Come To You"?? In this day and age, there are few services that do this, and most require that you come to them. In essence, he's telling you that he wants to promote his MOBILITY FEATURE. That immediately suggests a layout that conveys the idea of MOTION or MOVEMENT does it not? The rest is merely a matter of telling WHO it is that's willing and able to "come to them". How to reach him is also pretty much a given. If the customer agrees, then we now have a basis for providing them with a banner that will fulfill their requirements, and some meaningful information with which to work. The key is to LISTEN.
By now you get the idea of how I "read" or interpret things related to me by customers who may not seem to "have a clue". Sometimes they ARE throwing, but we're just not catching.
PS: I've also had days when I simply don't clue in to what customers are asking of me.
-------------------- Ken Henry Henry & Henry Signs London, Ontario Canada (519) 439-1881 e-mail: kjmlhenry@rogers.com
Why do I get all those on-line offers to sell me Viagara, when the only thing hardening is my arteries ? Posts: 2684 | From: London,Ontario, Canada | Registered: Feb 1999
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I respect your view points, but You and I are going to disagree here on this, I see your point where your coming from whole heartedly and I agree with you that those clues are obvious, but trust me when I say this customer has no clue which direction his business is going and couldnt make up his mind in a life and death situation.
I have worked for him for many years, most of the time I make the decisions for him but after a while it gets draining. This is not about fitting the customer with the right communication. This is about making business decisions for him. I dont know what he wants to sell, I dont know what he makes the most profit on. Most of the time he asks me what he should put for a price. I've already asked him if he wanted to promote the mobile service when the truck wasn't there...(he doesnt know) I've run through his whole list and all he knows is he wants a banner.
anyway my day is coming to a close and this rant is over.
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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the thought of fulfilling some of my customers dreams is...well...let's just say i'd rather have bamboo shoots shoved up my fingernails...and i do smile at them...really i do...when they leave! i'm at the point lately of only wanting decent, smart and honest customers that have the $ to pay. my stupid people tolerance is running a tad low these days.
-------------------- Karyn Bush Simply Not Ordinary, LLC Bartlett, NH 603-383-9955 www.snosigns.com info@snosigns.com Posts: 3516 | From: Bartlett, NH USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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It's apparent Bob's talking about an extreme case here, and yes, a few of those in a row would frazzle most people's nerves.
But as far as the rest of the customers that don't have ideas, thank God that at least they don't have BAD ideas. Remember "how bad can it get?" Perhaps I'm too emotional, but the memories of barfo-ugly commitee art are way way too fresh.
Right now I'm trying to sell a job to a fireplace co. The guy had some real basic ideas, but wanted to be sure he wasn't getting in the way of better ideas that I might have.
Being that I gave up TV more than a decade ago, I get fascinated with stuff that would maybe bore others to tears. Like a book on marketing. As we were conversing, the words just came so naturally: "The guy that's selling brakes for cars isn't selling brakes, he's selling safety, you're not selling fireplaces, you're selling comfort.
Bottom line, looks like maybe an upsale that will more than double the price. And abilities that set me apart from the competition.
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
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I also understand Bobs frustration with some customers - We often get asked some really cretinous questions or to do totally unsuitable work or the perrenial "How much is a sign" (how long is a ball of string)
Janette - you hit the nail on the head in many respects and my attitude to signage is the same as yours. We have often been approched to do a simple job for a client and it has developed into far bigger projects , as you say , your clients success generates loyalty and compliments yours.
This depends a lot on your processes and what you can do as a sign company. If you , lets say , only do neon signage or hand painted lettering or are highly specialised within your field , it would be somewhat of a waste of your time to have to develop a business plan incorporating stuff you don't do or stuff that wont increase your sales to them. It is however part of your job to suggest the best options for the customer within your speciality field. As one poster said , a few questions asked can aid you and the customer here.
However if you do have the facilites or have realtionships with folk you outsource to , a simple request can turn into a multifaceted job.
Lets say the local medium sized florist chain comes in for a sign and asks how best to promote their business.
We would suggest and design a sign, then suggest some unusual window graphics, a customised card holder for the bouquets, small digitally printed stickers to go on the pots, some branded freebie (like a fridge magnet) to give away with larger orders, make a chocolate mould with their logo on so that can give a custom choc with each bouquet , a stunning vehicle wrap for their delivery vehicles, professional badges for the staff, some form of employee recognition awards, some form of "best supplier" award, custom printed very high quality business cards for the directors, some form of promotional banner or pop up display for in their shops, perhaps some floor graphics leading the way to their shop, fabricated display racks for the various cards they carry, POS displays for special promotions and so forth. All these would lead to increased sales for ourselves and give the florist chain a focused identity and build brand awareness as well as increasing their sales. Often , you as an outsider to the industry you are being asked to give advice on , can see things clearly from a consumers point of view and can give some very good advice , even unsolicited.
We did awards for a petrol chain's forecourt convenience shops and in speaking to the person concerned , I mentioned that leaving ones car to go to the store is an inconvenience (we dont pump our own gas here so you never have to get out the car) apart from which most ppl have stuff in a car that they dont want to leave unattended so why not have a roving cart on the forecourt selling sweets chocs , the paper , ciggies etc. Folk with kids in the car will not get away without spending and indeed most ppl will make an impulse purchase. They ran a pilot scheme doing this , with us commisioned to build the carts , do the advertising graphics on it etc. It was a success and now the scheme is being launched regionally and we are involved in various elements of it.
-------------------- Rodney Gold Toker Bros Posts: 57 | From: South Africa | Registered: Aug 2003
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if a customer comes in and says he wants a sign but doesn't know what size or what he wants it to say i tell him to look in the old sign pile and get one.
-------------------- Jimmy Chatham Chatham Signs 468 stark st Commerce, Ga 30529 Posts: 1766 | From: Commerce, GA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Bob: Perhaps you should change the name of your company. It appears you have caused consternation by your name choice. You have, after all, touted yourself as being creative and your customers are only asking you to live up to what your name implies. You might think about "Sign Shop For Geniuses" then you might get more sympathy from me. As long as a customer will pay me, I will advise them how to get stains out of their toilet. You obviously have WAY too much business or are bitter over having too little.
-------------------- John Newell Casa Enterprises, LLC Tulsa, OK 74135 Posts: 5 | From: Tulsa, OK | Registered: Oct 2003
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it seems as if I might need an attitude adjustment here, I dont seem to have any tolerance for a lot of things lately.
I'm not even going to reply to your post john, I cant seem to find anything positive to say, and that isnt right. I've noticed an increase in my anger lately. This thread has pointed it out to me clearly.
This one customer I am griping about I have worked for for 8 years and his indecisiveness had never bothered me before. I think I just need a break.
adios!
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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Bob, I dont think you're off base any here. Being in this business, creativity is a must, but some decisions need to come from the customer. Lets say you go ahead an decide what to put on this customers sign. He comes to pick it up, and then decides, well, wait a minute, I think I woulda put this and that and this on there, etc. You're in the business of coming up with an image to help a business succeed working from the customers name and ideas on what they want to say. If they say, I dunno what I want on the sign, I would react the same way you did. It aint our business to tell them WHATto say, but HOW to say it.
-------------------- Maker of fine signs and other creative stuff. Located at 109 N. Cumberland ave. Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-837-0242 Posts: 4172 | From: Ages-Brookside, Ky. Up the Holler... | Registered: Jul 1999
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Thank you Deaton!!! Finally, someone can read AND comprehend. For a minute, I thought Bob and I were talking in foreign tongues again.
It is not up to us, as signmakers, to decide what our customers want to sell. We can help them creatively lay it out, but I don't think it's our job, or at least mine, to tell them whether they want to sell flowers or toilets or ugly pottery or turn their business into a mobile dog castration service.
Gee, maybe one of them will call me tomorrow and ask me what color socks they should wear. John Newell, I'd refer them to you, but it seems the member database is lacking your contact info.
-------------------- Chris Welker Wildfire Signs Indiana, Pa Posts: 4254 | From: Indiana, PA | Registered: Mar 2001
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wow... and there I thought I was pretty good at reading and comprehending.
Thanks for pointing out my shortcoming Kissy. Lucky for me, not many have noticed that about me yet.
quote:Lets say you go ahead an decide what to put on this customers sign. He comes to pick it up, and then decides, well, wait a minute, I think I woulda put this and that and this on there, etc.
Thought I'd answer your question here John D. I'd most likely have talked about the copy, before laying it out. But let's say I just make some copy up for them (which I actually do a lot) and it's something we didn't discuss first. Since they would first be seeing it on their proof, (the one they left me a sketch deposit to do) and not on an actual sign, I would change the copy for them to read what they want. (and the meter would still be running)
Bob, I don't think you necessarily need an attitude adjustment. I certainly have days where I'm frustrated with less than this customer has been testing you with. Other times stuff just rolls off me like water on a duck's back. I think it's what side you wake up on, ... maybe the weather .... the moon phase ... your homeowner's insurance suddenly doubles, ... the Bucs loose .... heck, alotta ways a mood can be affected.
Like I said in a previous reply, I did end up realizing that this post was really just mean't to be a vent fest. Releases like that among peers is not a bad thing either. We're here to support each other.
Today's another day. Smile!
Nettie
-------------------- "When Love and Skill Work Together ... Expect a Masterpiece"
posted
I just noticed a difference in John D's and Kissy's wording on their most recent replies.
If it's a matter of determining what they sell, the answer is clearly easy. You can't know till they tell you.
Now determining what to say about what they sell is, in my humble opinion, part of what our job is about. That's just the way I've chosen to approach things with my clients.
Nettie
-------------------- "When Love and Skill Work Together ... Expect a Masterpiece"
posted
Kissymatina: Well, I have hit an exposed nerve with my suggestion. I “read AND comprehend” very well, thank you. I do not have the gift you possess of reading the mind of the writer. I have to depend upon what is written. The two statements that Bob put in his original post were: 1." what do you think I should write on this"? 2. “well do you think that will bring sales in?". Both of them are well within the scope of what should be expected of a client to ask. Just because a person does not have the gift of knowing how to phrase words or place their ideas in a concise form does not make them stupid as you suggest. Furthermore, if you don’t think your work will increase his sales, you are doing a disservice to the client and yourself by taking on the job. The client would, indeed, be stupid to come in and lay down five or six hundred bucks knowing it will not increase business. Yes, I do think Bob should adjust his attitude and you, too. It is much more productive to look for win-win results than to resort to a bitch-bitch attitude. If I had an employee who displayed such an attitude – they would not be an employee. There are far too many people in this business to blow off a customer of 8 years.
As far as the information in my profile, it appears to have just as much as your own. By the way, your hat is on backwards.
[ October 20, 2003, 12:46 PM: Message edited by: John Newell ]
-------------------- John Newell Casa Enterprises, LLC Tulsa, OK 74135 Posts: 5 | From: Tulsa, OK | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote:Originally posted by John Newell: I “read AND comprehend” very well, thank you.....As far as the information in my profile, it appears to have just as much as your own.
Really? I said Member Database. Mine has my phone number. People can call and talk to me. I don't hide behind a keyboard.
-------------------- Chris Welker Wildfire Signs Indiana, Pa Posts: 4254 | From: Indiana, PA | Registered: Mar 2001
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Well excuse me! I erroneously assumed they were one and the same. I have enough nitwits calling me without posting my telephone number on the Internet. I am really not that hard up to speak with someone. If you think I hide behind a keyboard that is your choice. I did notice you chose to make a big deal over this small detail rather than debate the content of my post.
-------------------- John Newell Casa Enterprises, LLC Tulsa, OK 74135 Posts: 5 | From: Tulsa, OK | Registered: Oct 2003
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seeing it this was your 3rd post on this forum let be the first to welcome you to letterville. I dont know how long you've been here, maybe as a lurker, mayber not, kick back relax and take that chip off your shoulder.
We're all a good bunch of nutballs and go through the same shtuff at one point or another. You might find this a cool place and most of us can be a good aly if you try to be nice at least at first.
Not a good way to introduce yourself honestly. But hey who am I to talk i'm in the middle of an attitude adjustment, and its going well I must add lol.
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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Thanks for the welcome and the advice. I have been lurking for a while and am not a “professional” sign guy. I am a semi-retired real estate broker who stumbled into this by cutting my $5000 per month signage bills by getting a vinyl cutter and doing it in house. After selling my brokerage I kept the plotter to play with. I taught myself how to use the thing and am still learning. I do it because I find it fun and it is related to another business I am developing. Your post caught my attention because it pushed my “touchy” button like your customer did you. I may not be an expert in this business but I am an expert on business. I have many years in marketing and sales. I am an older guy in relation to most of the people who post here. Being older I remember when great customer service was expected rather than the exception. The customer can get the same product you provide in numerous places, sometimes for more, sometimes less. The thing you have to market that is unique is you. It doesn’t matter what your product, your success rate will be greater if your customer thinks you are the greatest guy in the world. That is why I posted to what I interpreted as not appreciating the “goose that lays the golden eggs”. I really do not have a chip on my shoulder, I am just very blunt and hope everyone will tolerate my bluntness.
-------------------- John Newell Casa Enterprises, LLC Tulsa, OK 74135 Posts: 5 | From: Tulsa, OK | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
This post is starting to deteriate fast. We've seen this happen too many times in the past here on the BullBoard. As a result, good posts we could all learn from, end up being ruined or deleted due to comments that have nothing to do with the original topic.
I'm not interested in fixing the blame here, just the problem. Here's what I see.
Nobody enjoys being called an idiot. It's often not what people say, but how they say it. Keep in mind that we are a community of professionals here. We may disagree on methods sometimes, but the bottom line is we are all here to learn. Treat others the same way you expect to be treated. If you are posting with an evil grin on your face, don't push that Post button.
Nobody should be leaving this BB feeling lousy about themselves. If comments you read here cause you to leave in a rage, somethings wrong.
Some of us have a real anger management problem. We let things build up inside us. Many times this anger and/or frustration is released at the worse time and directed towards people that really have nothing to do with why we are angry. I know a bit about anger. Three of my heart attacks occurred when I was angry and brooding. Don't let anger ruin your health and/or life.
Another topic that came up here is contact information. Letterville is not your typical website. We are a community of business professionals that choose to call ourselves Letterheads. We're proud of our business and affiliations, so we use our real names and addresses. I assume everyone has their contact info on their business cards and phone book. Why should it be any different here?
We're not ready to insist your phone numbers be included in your signatures, but it does need to be in our Letterville Database. Please take a few minutes to visit the database and insure all your info is complete and up to date. If any changes are needed, go to the Edit Page, enter your database username and password, and make any needed changes. Keep in mind that your database username and password is different from your BullBoard ID and pass. If you have forgotten your database info, email Barb at barb@letterhead.com
-------------------- Steve Shortreed 144 Hill St., E. Fergus, Ontario Canada N1M 1G9 519-787-2673
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