posted
The meet in Nanaimo was a big boost to my ego!
Several asked why I was not better off financially...and I often wonder too.
Going to meets and sharing my work with my peers gives me a sense of how I'm doing and if I'm growing in the areas I'm trying to be my best at.
Watching some of my heroes (Dan Sawatzky for example...) do their demos and talking about how they conduct business and deal with difficult clients, etc....I began to see that it's all about confidence, confidence in yourself and your work....
I think my fear has always been that I'm just not good enough to charge that kind of money (12 grand for a mural, heck 12 grand for ANYthing!) But....someday.....I hope I will....someday
I had a small splash job to do in the mall after the meet, the guy was difficult and didn't want to pay the price I quoted (it was high, deliberatly high) in the end he paid it....I walked away feeling like I won the fight that day...went home with a bit more confidence than usual and approached the next client with the confidence that I could do this and my work was worth it.
I did up a color sketch and detailed invoice for the entire job...(I put a higher price tag that I usually do, even charged for the color sketch).
The whole time I kept telling myself "Be confident, be confident..."
the client was thrilled, and didn't hesitate to write me out a deposit on the spot!
She's was so happy with the job she even called the local paper to come out and photograph it and me (I hate having my pic taken)
BUT......my point (and I do have one) is that confidence seems to attract work to you....
I'm not a good sales person, hate the sales part, will do anything to avoid having to sell a job..
But, I've found (especially during Christmas window painting season) that if you appear that you get this sort of price all the time, and that they can take your price or leave it, your not budging (I only do this at Christmas when I'm overwhelmed with work ) Then they get the impression you have something of rare value.
My roomie Rhonda Price was right on when she told me that by putting a high price on your work you are telling the client that you have something of value.....
posted
adrienne.... you are so right , it is confidence,, The old saying Ten slaps and a yes" ring true.
Ask a girl for dinner ten times.. ten times she will slap your face, on the eleventh attempt she will say yes....
Same with bizz clients. But the trick is to get them to say yes after just one slap. And confidence does it every time.
-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5274 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
Adrienne, want to build your confidence? Here's the deal. We trade talent for one month. After the month is over I can guarantee that your attitude towards your abilities will change and your self esteem will soar!
Of course I get to keep the 30 grand I make that month.
-------------------- Kathy Joiner River Road Graphics 41628 River Road Ponchatoula, La.70454
Old enough to know better...Too young to resist. Posts: 1891 | From: Ponchatoula, LA | Registered: Nov 2000
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I'm not sure anything bums me out more than to see someone with true talent go without appreciation and compensation.
But ... if you don't ask, you won't get. Don't be afraid to up your asking price. You DO have the talent to back it. Know that! (and if you waver in that, come back on here, and we'll remind you!)
Each time you do it, your confidence builds. Before you know it the higher prices roll more easily off your tongue!
go girl! Nettie
-------------------- "When Love and Skill Work Together ... Expect a Masterpiece"
posted
Good for you, Adrienne! I need to learn how to do the same thing. I try to "act as if", but I am a wimp and usually back off if the customer quibbles. Low self-esteem is often my worst enemy. Your post made me want to throw my shoulders back and hold up my head. You go, girl! Thanks and love...JILL
-------------------- That is like a Mr. Potato Head with all the pieces in the wrong place. -Russ McMullin Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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ZERO CONFIDENCE...kept me outa doing this as full time work till i was 42!!!!! been painting and makin some signs on the side since i was in my teens. parents were a lot of help too, all they ever had invisioned for me was workin in the coal mines or steel mills...those were "the good jobs"!!! i moved to fla in 81 was workin in an auto parts(damn good at it, not brag just fact)and my last 2 jobs(85-86)was at 2 different car dealerships. the 1st was across the street from our house. 21 year old kid fired me, told me i was incompentent!!(less then 2 weeks later he was fired) i had more time time workin then he had livin!!! that made me angry. 2nd dealership i got fired 4 days before xmas!!! and no bonus!! then i tried sellin APOLLO LIGHT BULB, what a joke!! all these thing only inforced my confidence....being that all these people that had just fired me and told me i was lower then whale dodo....were a lot DUMBER then me. none could do half the other things i could, and they were the sad ones because they couldnt do anything else!!!!!!!! i picked up my brushes, and paint and went "visiting" all the garages and mechanic shops i knew from workin in the parts. 1st job was a 32" x 40" 2 sided A-FRAME for one of the parts stores i worked for...and i been doin this since then. also another confidence builder was this other sign painter in town who is one of the best....he stopped by once when i was paintin a set of truck doors....and told me, "you'll never make it paintin signs, you just dont have it." pretty cruel statement, comin from someone who i admired & respected their opinion. this was in 86. in 95 this same guy was just getting into computers/vinyl. he called me to help him set up this equipment cause he heard i was one of the best computer gurus from couple other "great old brush painters" i had helped setup their computer/vinyl. so iam not bragging here just giving you an example that if you got the ability.....all things will fall into place, as long as YOU BELIVE ...in you.
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Hi Adrienne, it was good to talk to you yesterday. I have seen your work and you have good reason to be confident. You know it works when you see some really crappy work out there that someone paid top dollar for. So if you have the ability to provide really good work and good service, you should be paid well for it. Let me know if you take that job up north, I would like to check it out when its done.
-------------------- Brian Stoddard Northwest Signs
I seriously don't believe that I am more talented than most folks here, YOU included. I watched you work effortlessly on theose GREAT window splashes in Nanaimo. I witnessed serious talent! I do have a little more self confidence though.
This confidence allows me to charge what I believe I am worth... without blinking. This confidence allows me to only take the jobs that turn my crank creatively and turn the rest away. This confidence allows me to let the creative work come to me... I don't chase clients.
By doing all the above I am always in the driver's seat and can always do my best work, which gives me success, and continuing confidence to do it again and agin and again.
This confidence also allows me to tackle almost any job... take on new things I have never done before.... always stretch the envelope on every single job I tackle.
But as you know confidence is a fragile thing. You have to seriously work at it every day. Start small, and take on challenges you know you can win. Set yourself up for success, not failure.
I BELIEVE!!!
Do you?
-dan
-------------------- Dan Sawatzky Imagination Corporation Yarrow, British Columbia dan@imaginationcorporation.com http://www.imaginationcorporation.com
Being a grampa is one of the the most wonderful things in the world!!! Posts: 8740 | From: Yarrow, B.C. Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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I have seen some fine pictures that were done for Fun by yourself...(LOL)
And then again I have seen some "Quality and I mean Quality!" being painted from your Soul to your hands for your,Talent and Worth.
Add Every Minute up to the project From the time you click your heels as the door locks! and you are driving away to the (New Promised Land)of the customer. All Materials!..... And don't forget your overhead costs.
Never let the person or persons corner you on something.
But you know that already...........
-------------------- Stephen Deveau RavenGraphics Insinx Digital Displays
Letting Your Imagination Run Wild! Posts: 4327 | From: Lower Sackville, Nova Scotia, Canada | Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
Great topic A. This site has really helped me to trust my "now higher priced" instincts. Actually I think I had a fair amount of confidence before, but lacked a reference point to what the value of my talent ought to be. From all the posts here I began to place a higher value on my work & ask for more money to cover that. It has been working.
I like Netties comment "Before you know it the higher prices roll more easily off your tongue! " She said that to me on an old post & that is exactlly how I have thought about it ever since. I know some of my work is worth more... & I know some of my clients will pay more... but just getting myself to ask for more is the remaining challenge.
And your right it's all about confidence. I have some, but I need more, but it may not be "putting the cart before the horse' to just experiment with asking for more even when it's scary & I don't really have that much confidence (yet) because when we do get those jobs a few times... the increased confidence is sure to follow.
Thanks for an inspiring post. My comments above are as much or more to myself as much as to anyone else. Now I am going to risk losing a few jobs to practice "rolling those high numbers"
I was hoping this would spark some enthusiasm with everyone to start having more confidence (altho, Dan has arrived! ) lol
OK, after posting this morning...I had a quick meeting with another client in town. I had painted her windows (the first windows I've done here) and now she wants some wood signs....SEVERAL!!
BIG ones !!!!!!
Okkkkkkkaaaayyy.....
I have free rein to come up with anything I want...just have to make sure the name is on it and their slogan.
Lucky for me she was on her cel phone the entire time she was pointing out that she wanted 'one there...." "one there...." and a 'really big one over here..." and also parking signs, and something on the door........
(kah-ching, kah-ching!!)
OK, she may not have a clue as to how much this may cost her, and since I only have a parakeet and one tiny goldfish, I really could do without a lot of trade...
So...I'll come up with a bid in a few days and let you know what happens!
posted
At Nanaimo I witnessed first hand the amazing talent you have. You have a flair for colour and your tools do what you instruct them to do, we could all be so talented. You go get those big bucks you deserve, and like Bob says "the customer is the enemy, so act like it"
-------------------- "Are we having fun yet?" Peter Schuttinga DZines Sign Studio 1617 Millstream rd Victoria BC V9B-6G4 Posts: 521 | From: Victoria BC | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
Adrienne, sounds like a great opportunity!!! She has confidence in you!!! You'll give her more than she's expecting, you'll both win!
Just remember, they're not just Dollars, they're Damp Dollars!!
Go do it!!!
John Lennig / SignRider / going to use some of your energy up here!!
-------------------- John Lennig / Big Top Sign Arts 5668 Ewart Street, Burnaby, British Columbia, Canada bigtopya@hotmail.com 604.451.0006 Posts: 2184 | From: Burnaby, British Columbia,Canada | Registered: Nov 2001
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posted
As young sign painters working together trying to glean info from wherever we could, it was difficult. I moved away and got a job as an apprentice in a sign shop. Wayne continued to learn on his own. Ten years late I came back and started a shop in a town an hour away from Wayne. He had been through a prestigious art school on scholarship. He was capable of doing pictorials on signs that would have put every sign shop around into the background. He lacked the confidence to sell what he could do that would separate him from the rest of us. Its been a year since Wayne left earth life, and I still look at his art with envy. Confidence works when your abilities match how you represent yourself, otherwise you deceive even yourself. Adrienne, you have skills in areas that excel and need to be promoted. You have weak areas that need developing. Sell the stuff you can do that the rest of us can't touch. Go for it!
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6734 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Confidence is a funny thing. Some days are better than others. I still waver when I broach the subject of money. There is that "fear of rejection" thing coupled with the "I really need or really want this job" thing.
I think the key is that YOU really believe that what you have to offer, and what it can do for them has value. If you don't, they won't!
When proposing a job, do it matter of factly with a "that's the price" tone and an "I can walk away" attitude. (work like you don't need the money)
Just gotta blurt out the numbers and see where they roll. (Incidently, I usually present price in written form. Once I get a sketch deposit, I attach pricing in a proposal with the sketches, and outline the job, total costs with options if applicable, the turn-around time and deposit amount to start fabrication.)
Be prepared to stand by your price, and not budge if they try to talk you down ... or even if they blink. Your demeaner tells a customer what they can get away with, so if the manner in which you convey yourself is with confidence, they are less likely to question your price. "You teach people how to treat you".
Really believing in yourself is what turns it all around, ... and Adrienne, you have every reason to believe in yourself. You can do what most other's can't!
Nettie
-------------------- "When Love and Skill Work Together ... Expect a Masterpiece"
posted
Adrienne, I went through the same thing early on in my sign career, and also with my artwork. I found it hard to tack a high price on anything. But as I got better at what I was doing, I eventually started getting better prices for my work. It was hard at first, due to working cheap years before. Customers wanted that cheap price like they used to get. I always felt that if I didnt charge them too high a price, they couldnt complain. But after several jobs that drew compliments from customers and others, my confidence started getting better, and I felt better about the work I was turning out, and knew I could get much more for it. I bought a price guide and studied the pricing in there which really helped. I recently purchased Estimate software, and what a great program! Dont know how I did without it. After all this, I now consider the prices I get for my work to be what I need to be getting. We signpeople are talented people. Not everyone can do what we do. We should get paid very well for the business we generate for the customers we work for, or the quality artwork we provide for them. There is no doubt in my mind that you need to be one of the best paid artists out there. Your work ranks up there with the best in my opinion. Your murals are breathtaking and beautiful. Keep on the right track and get the prices you deserve and you'll retire rich. You deserve it.
-------------------- Maker of fine signs and other creative stuff. Located at 109 N. Cumberland ave. Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-837-0242 Posts: 4172 | From: Ages-Brookside, Ky. Up the Holler... | Registered: Jul 1999
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posted
My friend Jimmy had a show card in his office that his Dad did. It says...
"We have no quarrel with those who work for less. They know what their stuff is worth."
You know you are good, your customers know you are good, so go get the money!!! If you don't ask for it, they sure as heck aren't going to offer it.
-------------------- Bruce Bowers
DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter Posts: 6454 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
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posted
Nettie's been watchin' Dr Phil.. (You teach people how to treat you)..
It's true though.
This past week I was talking to some other product manufacturers that build parts for jetskis - we were at the World Finals races, gathered in one of the company's vendor booths, talking about customers.
One of the owners said "Your customers only have as much power as you are willing to let them have. Take away their power and you will be much happier and better off financially. I don't know who said 'the customer is always right' but he's an idiot."
Then again, 5 minutes later the same guy says to me "If you're priced right, I want you to help us build a new website."
I don't know what his idea of "priced right" is, but I told him outright with a blank face (I'm the master of emotionless blank stares, lemme tell ya) I bill out at $100/hour for generating the type of work he wants done (custom flash animation/navigation) to drive home the point I'm not going to work for peanuts.
He nods and chokes out "Okay."
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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) Then they get the impression you have something of rare value.![[Thanks]](graemlins/thanks.gif)
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!!!!!!
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