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In a attempt to price within reason and not to leave money on the table......this is a constant challenge to price fair and not to become "the sign shop that will soon be out of business" for low bidding sign jobs. I constantly check this bull board for the answer to this question.I have pricing books and question other sign shops. Here is the question.... 18"x24" (this is just a test subject size.) the sign guide book suggest the following prices.... for the same size sign. aluminum 112.00 wood 107.00 coroplast 111.00 magnetic 113.00 banner 44.00 and just vinyl 52.00 now for the question...who really gets these prices? serious.. 107.00 for a 18x24 coroplast sign that would say for sale & phone.... even the other prices seem very high. Here is the part where you might hate me.. but for coroplast sign 18x24 I get 15.00- 20.00 do you get about the same or more? and based on the above study, just for the vinyl to put on these said signs is 52.00. I really don't believe that anyone is getting these prices (Or even close) for this type of sign. so what good are these price guides if the prices are so OFF BASE......Yes I am aware that these are based on diffeent parts of the U.S. and to price accordinly to what your market will bare. I struggle with this topic daily. I constantly put pencil to paper to come upwith some sort of simple equassion. please comment thanks in advance..And notice the banner price is actually lower than just the vinyl by itself... how is that possible......thanks Chuck
-------------------- Chuck Coupland Coupland Signs 426 N. 11th Laporte, Tx. 77571 copesigns@aol.com Posts: 36 | From: LaPorte, Tx. USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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i live in northeast fl. here $20 for a single sided coro 18" x 24" is the high end. most shops here have signs out YARD SIGNS $10.00. but these are misleading because at that price you get one color, 2,3 lines of copy only. so its a sorta bait and switch these places do...$10 gets you in the door, then they sell you up!!! i have gotten $70 for a 2 sided....but there was art work. now i belive you can get what you want for these someplaces or if its a long time customer who dont care what you charge, not many of these. when i used to paint these and alum/steel was the only stuff available now $40 single sided was normal, $80 for a 2 sided one. i have one client who buys 18" x 24" coro signs,2 sided, 100 a pop and pays less then $4.00 EACH!!! heck i got em here doin $100 single sided 4' x 8'!!!!!!!!
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Chuck do yourself a favor and go to ESTIMATE's website and download the profit calculator or whatever its called and then consider seriously buying the program and using it,and figure out what YOU need to charge for that 18x24 and what %profit YOU wanna make and don't worry about what people say they're charging here.....prob 80-90% of the pricing discussions here start out well intentioned then end up as complete BS sessions with alotta attempts to convince each other how much more $$$ they're making than the other guy.....look back at a few threads and you'll see that most start out where person 1 charges $350 for a 4x8,the next poster gets $475,3rd poster gets $560.4th guy is much too talented and busy to touch it for anything less than $700 and upward the spiral goes till someone else is getting $8800 to put EAT AT JOES in black helvetica on a pre-painted white MDO board...and you get the picture. Just like there's a bottom level for pricing,there's also a top end despite what many may want you to believe...if there wasn't people would never have another discussion on where to get a better price on this/that/whatever on this board or anywhere for that matter...plus to me ,in the last 5years in all those guides,some prices have stayed the same,some increased,and a couple decreased...while all your costs went up. Sit down and figure out all your overhead,material costs,labor costs and how long it takes you to do certain types of jobs realistically,and take a realistic look at your abilities..i.e don't take in a carved/gilded/painted job if you've never attempted one b4 and expect to crank it out painlessly,fast and error free just like rolling a backround and slappin on vinyl...nothing wrong with attempting the job but getting in over your head can easily cause you to lose money redoing something 6times or having you spend all day experimenting on one sign when you have 8 others to get out,esp if you're a one man shop. Figure out exactly what it is you spend and what you need to charge and focus on that rather than what everyone else is doing and you'll always make money...worrying about what the other guy says hes doing is a quick way to always feel like you're getting left behind the pack.....even if you posted that you charged the $107 the guide suggested,at least one person will say they get $130 and another will say they charge $7,and you'll be stressed over it again..figure out what its gonna take for you to make the job worth doing.
-------------------- Gavin Chachere Plotter in the garage,New Orleans La.
"Sgts Shugart and Gordon again request permission to rope down to crash site two" Posts: 1223 | From: new orleans.la. | Registered: Mar 2000
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Whipping out a pricing guide or using the Estimate software is always a good starting point for pricing a job. It gives you a good general idea of what your work is worth. But it is a "guide", not an absolute bible for pricing. We all have our own circumstances and can make some adjustments.
Being in a rural area of New Hampshire, I have different factors to consider that my Sign Contractors Pricing Guide never mentions.
Plus side... There's no sales or state income taxes here, and in many towns, no sign ordinances. I get a good amount of work from customers in nearby Vermont because of it, and my bookkeeping is less complicated and time consuming, too. I own all my equipment outright, am home based and don't have any big overhead to carry. There are fewer sign "painters" in the area since I started out, but more vinyl shops than ever, so my need to compete pricewise with other sign shops is no longer as difficult as it has been in the past. I do mostly hand painted and artistic work and have a nice little niche here, and really feel no need to chop prices.
On the downside... I have only one supplier who does monthly deliveries, so rush orders are always difficult when shipping time and cost is a factor. There's also the headache of doing installations in winter which I do put a PITA fee on. And, although I have a nice niche here, it's still rural, and there are few people who put much value in signage.
I'm sure other sign businesses have similar factors, but those are mine and I price accordingly to my situation.
Like you mentioned, Gavin, if you find your self worrying about the other guy's prices and stressing out trying to "keep up with the Joneses", you're not doing it right for yourself. Spending time griping at youself about how you are sorry you took a job or shaking your head over how much you should have charged right after the customer pays the tab are telltale signs you need to make some changes, not only in pricing, but as to what kind of work you're doing.
You can keep customers coming in when you don't worry about who isn't coming in. Price is only one part of that.
Just keep in mind that you work for a living, and don't feel like you live to work. If you also enjoy what you do for a living...COOL! You get the best of both worlds.
"If it ain't fun, I ain't doin' it." Have a fun day! Rapid
-------------------- Ray Rheaume Rapidfire Design 543 Brushwood Road North Haverhill, NH 03774 rapidfiredesign@hotmail.com 603-787-6803
I like my paint shaken, not stirred. Posts: 5648 | From: North Haverhill, New Hampshire | Registered: Apr 2003
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Hi... Gavin, great reply. Here in my little corner of PA: (all 18x24) Vinyl, 1 color on Coroplast- $25 w/step stake Vinyl, 2 colors on Aluminum- $50 Hand-Painted, on Wood- $75 O'course, everybody always goes for the coro. Love- JILL
-------------------- That is like a Mr. Potato Head with all the pieces in the wrong place. -Russ McMullin Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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Hey Chuck, Just Silly Jilly again. Had a customer today who actually opted for the hand-painted wood job site sign...well shut mah mouth! HAHA Love- JILL
-------------------- That is like a Mr. Potato Head with all the pieces in the wrong place. -Russ McMullin Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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Hi Chuck, Yes, I mostly DO get the prices in the price guide book.
However, you need to let these people know that the prices you pulled are for a sign with up to 8 words and 2-color letters (outline or drop shadow) and not just a basic one-color 5 word sign. (Sign Contractors Pricing Guide, 2003 edition).
Truth be told, I would probably do that job for less than book price if its on coroplast. the prices on Aluminum, wood, etc, are what I usually ask for and get.
I'd also say that those prices usally include some small amount of design time. If i were going to offer a low end ("2" red helvetica letters, up to 8 words) with zero on the design side then i'd charge less. but i really don't want to interrupt my day for a $20 job, and doing ONE sign on coroplast takes me as long as doing it on anything else, so the coroplast is no real savings.
-------------------- :: Scooter Marriner :: :: Coyote Signs :: :: Oakland, CA :: :: still a beginner :: :: Posts: 1356 | From: Oakland (and San Francisco) | Registered: Mar 2001
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I am slightly lower than those around me, but, they can beat me with silk screening. 18 x 24 two sided with wrought iron frame is $95 on .032 or 040. That includes a logo if it is on file with us. I also offer a 24x24 diamond shaped two sided in a frame for $150 ish
""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3503 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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Okay, I'm going to sound like a pompous jerk here, but why would anyone with a half-ounce of talent in this biz even waste their time figuring prices on an 18" x 24" coroplast "for sale" sign? You all KNOW the quicky-sticky that opened last week is gonna do it for less. I'm absolutely serious about this - most of us spend way too much time trying to figure out what to charge on the low-end generic crap that the junk shops give away to begin with. In the world of all this kind of work being dumped into the market by those specializing in faster&cheaper, the only way to make any money in this trade is to specialize - by offering a product or a service that the lowball competition cannot offer, along with developing the confidence to charge for what it's worth (see Adrienne's post). Leave the coroplast yard-sale signs to the quickies, they're going to underbid you anyway.
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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We still do the quicky sticky stuff and I'm sure always will. It can be profitable for us, but we are getting into more of the hand painted custom, paint on cut vinyl ( not brave enough to do it right on the vehicle, yet) and such. Our prices for this is much higher without increasing our cost of goods When we started the business 6 years ago, we never wanted to be the cheapest in town. Must have been a good thing too, because they have both closed and we are still going strong.
The one thing I don't like about owning my own business is being a TAX collector for the government, it really peeeees me off!
-------------------- Glenn Thompson Tell-Tale Signs Williams Lake, BC sign@telus.net (250)398-7446 Posts: 201 | From: Williams Lake, BC | Registered: Dec 2000
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