posted
I don't know why it's called Rapid tac, it should be called "Turtle Tac". I had to install some Avery Etch Mark Vinyl yesterday, some as big as 4x8, I used Rapid Tac as instructed, but I had to wait until this morning to remove the premask, the stuff would not allow me to remove the mask until this morning, What's up Roger? Now mind you it worked Great, but having to make 2 trips is a royal pain.
-------------------- "Keep Positive"
SIGNS1st. Neil Butler Paradise, NF Posts: 6277 | From: St. John's NF Canada | Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
I had a feeling that this would be asked... Just Rapid Tac Glenn, I know I should have used 2, but they don't carry it here, they say to wait 90 seconds and then remove the mask, No Possible way! 9 hrs is more like it.
-------------------- "Keep Positive"
SIGNS1st. Neil Butler Paradise, NF Posts: 6277 | From: St. John's NF Canada | Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Lotti, I had a problem with this product a couple of years ago with the same type of install, using Avery Products, maybe it's the avery vinyl that is the problem. No?
-------------------- "Keep Positive"
SIGNS1st. Neil Butler Paradise, NF Posts: 6277 | From: St. John's NF Canada | Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
USe RT II for calandered vinyl... then it will work really good.
-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5274 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
Said with a Homer tone.... "Beeeeeeeeeeer, auggggggh, lol, I'll try that Glenn, I have to do some more tomorrow, actually some smaller pieces for the same install. Thanks again!
-------------------- "Keep Positive"
SIGNS1st. Neil Butler Paradise, NF Posts: 6277 | From: St. John's NF Canada | Registered: Mar 1999
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if your supplier doesn't carry do what I do call em every other day and ask if they carry it, try to get a different sales monkey every time, soon they will think the masses are in NEED of it. lol
Worked for me I got Rapid prep that way.
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I guess we all called my supplier then cuz I was doing the same and now they have it finally
-------------------- Harris Kohen K-Man Pinstriping and Graphix Trenton, NJ "Showing the world that even I can strategically place the pigment where its got to go." Posts: 1739 | From: Trenton, NJ, USA | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
Neil, sorry you had a problem, we make Rapid Tac so you WON'T have problems !!
If the vinyl didn't bond after a couple minutes, then chances are it was one of two reasons:
1- the substrate (glass) was not clean enough. when doing dry applications, bonding is easy infact even on some unclean substrates, not so with ANY wet application.
Also sometimes in the very attempt to CLEAN the substrate, you may be contaminating it, only use Rapid Tac or Tac II or Rapid Prep with a "cheap grocery store paper towel" (a must).I have heard all the horror stories "windex, lacquer thinner prep-sol, Iso. Alc., simple green,etc. don't use these for cleaning prior to vinyl application, it means you will wait a looong time for vinyl to bond !
2-You must only use Rapid Tac on "cast premium or intermediate" any other type of film you must use Rapid Tac II.
Roger
-------------------- Roger Bailey Rapid Tac Incorporated 186 Combs Dr. Merlin Oregon 97532 Posts: 3020 | From: Merlin Oregon | Registered: Dec 1998
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First make sure you have no oils or lotions on your hands (wash em real quick). Now, lay the backside of one of your hands up against the substrate (you know the side you look at when you cut your nails). Glide it slowely across the area you have cleaned, you should feel a great deal of resistance (friction) especially at the wrinkly skin of your knuckles.
If you don't feel griping, bouncing, friction, then clean again untill you do !!!!!!!
Roger
-------------------- Roger Bailey Rapid Tac Incorporated 186 Combs Dr. Merlin Oregon 97532 Posts: 3020 | From: Merlin Oregon | Registered: Dec 1998
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posted
Roger, after cast premium & intermediate... what else is there? any low grade I ever saw was called "intermediate". I guess that means it's somewhere between premium & crap.... just that no-ones fessed up to sellin crap yet
(btw, the wrinkly skin of my knuckles on which side of my hand again?)
posted
Thanks for the tips Roger, But, I did exactly as you suggested, I actually cleaned it several times, and made comment to my helpers how Clean the rapid tac made the surface, and I always use plain paper towels, and am constantly changing them, after each wipe. This is the second time like I said, that this Raped Tac Failed me, and to tell you the truth roger, this is probably only the second time that I used this product to apply this type of glass etch, I did away with this product cause there's no way to apply big sheets of this stuff dry, I'm using Diamond etch by Avery for all my installs of etching vinyl now, like I said earlier, this latest install that I did, I had to use etchmark, that is what the customer Supplied, they are a huge Grocery Store Chain here in Canada, Sobeys, they even have their own Large Sign Shop in Nova Scotia, so they supplied the vinyl.
I have great success in applying Diamond Etch, dry, it just seems to go on better than the etchmark, and no, Rapid TAC, Will also screw up Diamond etch Vinyl as well. I'm going to try Glenns suggestion this morning, on some more etchmark. I talked to my supplier yesterday, EM Plastics about rt2, he said that he never heard of it, but will check it out.
Don't forget what I said, that this stuff layed down perfectly using the Rapid Tac 1, no complaints here on that, and actually it's so easy going on that it makes the Job that much less traumatic, it's almost impossible to screw it up. And as I'm typing this, my wife just said, that Em Plastics are going to get me a sample of rt2, so that's good news.
-------------------- "Keep Positive"
SIGNS1st. Neil Butler Paradise, NF Posts: 6277 | From: St. John's NF Canada | Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Hmmm... I'll have to nag EM, Montreal branch, about RT II. Confusing how many RT products are out there, if RT II is better than original why produce both? Whatever happened to "NEW & IMPROVED" labels.
-------------------- Mike O'Neill
It has yet to be proven that intelligence has any survival value. - Arthur C. Clarke
posted
i have used this product exclusively and am very happy!...now i got that out of the way.
"but I had to wait until this morning to remove the premask, the stuff would not allow me to remove the mask until this morning"
i have used the frosted film to cover large areas of glass and have never needed the transfer tape.really the transfer tape is for lettering. the apllication is simular to window tinting. line the film up tape the top like allways and peal the backing a little to get started use the rapid tack as usual and proceed down the window.always apply so you have to trim the edges!
i hope this helps in the future.
chris
-------------------- "We have been making house calls since 1992"
Chris Lovelady Vital Signs
NOW WITH 2 LOCATIONS! Tallahassee, Florida Thomasville, Ga.
posted
I'd be hesitant to be rubbing paper towel on a painted finish when cleaning prior to an install.
Paper towel is an abbrasive material...made to absorb and also provide a degree of abbrasiveness to clean dried gunk off kitchen countertops and such. Some substrates (such as countertops, porcelain, fiberglass, glass) might not be as affected by paper towels as an automotive paint.
I've used Rapid Tac and it is a good product and works as advertised.
Mainly I use my own measured formula of water, Dawn dish detergent (no hand lotions formula) and a bit of denatured alcohol and have excellent results. It's been a good application solution for me.
I've never in 22 years had a customer complain about graphics not sticking, or premature failure.
But Rapid Tac should have worked well for you and I'm surprised there was a problem. The times I've used it, I have been just as pleased with it's functionality.
Glass is generally more of a problem than other substrates in my opinion for applying graphics with any wet solution.
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
I just used the samples of Rapid Tac and RT II that I received, and I too am wondering why both?
I couldn't really tell them apart. I was using high performance vinyl, so it may not have mattered, but I was not planning on buying both.
Also, although it worked well, I couldn't really tell the difference between it and the detergent I have always used. Except for a slight friction which made it hard to reposition the graphic. This is a big reason to apply vinyl wet, so did I do something wrong?
-------------------- Paul Luszcz Zebra Visuals 27 Water Street Plymouth, MA 02360 508 746-9200 paul@zebravisuals.com Posts: 483 | From: 27 Water Street, Plymouth, MA 02360 | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
Ok, heres the answer to the "why 2" question, We started manufacturing regular Rapid Tac in 1987, the industry was getting into vinyl films.
We thought most shops would go with "premium cast" but we were wrong, so in 1996 we felt the need to make a formula that would work on all other films, mylar,polyester,metalized,calandered,etc.
You can use Rapid Tac II on any film type however, its going to loose a lot of positioning time when used with "premium cast" especially in warm climates, its a hotter, different solvent base formula.
And Yes Doug there is a " econemy grade" of films that don't usually have as agresive of an adhesive system.
Some films have ACRYLIC (or solvent base) adhesive systems.
Some have LATEX, (or rubber base) adhesive system.
We usually find the "premium cast" with the more agressive acrylic (solvent base).
There you have it.
Roger
-------------------- Roger Bailey Rapid Tac Incorporated 186 Combs Dr. Merlin Oregon 97532 Posts: 3020 | From: Merlin Oregon | Registered: Dec 1998
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posted
Neil, did I read it correctly that you used Rt to clean the glass? Use the rapid prep, much better.
-------------------- "Are we having fun yet?" Peter Schuttinga DZines Sign Studio 1617 Millstream rd Victoria BC V9B-6G4 Posts: 521 | From: Victoria BC | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
Yes Peter I used Rapid Prep, it worked Great, I just got back from laying down the last smaller pieces of etchmark, and I did as Glenn suggested, I added some alcohol to it about 30% and it worked great, I was able to remove the backing paper with no problem at all. Thanks Glenn!
-------------------- "Keep Positive"
SIGNS1st. Neil Butler Paradise, NF Posts: 6277 | From: St. John's NF Canada | Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
...and you'll notice more and more "economy" or calendared vinyls using the Acrylic (solvent) based adhesive.
Avery A5/A6, Bannercal,MacTac,Oracal all advertise the Solvent based adhesive... I can't confirm this, but I gotta believe 3M does as well.
Polyester and Mylar films in general are not good choices for outdoor or long term use as most people know.
I'm pretty sure that Coburn Metallized films use a solvent based adhesive as well...
So based on what Roger is saying...cast and almost all calendared films now should work fine with Rapid Tac (the original) if you choose to buy your application fluid.
A quick glimpse through Ameribans catalogue will confirm this (move to solvent adhesive for cheap vinyls).
The polyster films may still require RT 2.....I'd have to check and see what adhesives they are using now...might still be rubber based...but in lieu of where calendared is going, it wouldn't surprise me if they would switch over to Acrylic adhesive too....in which case one would surmise that a single solution should cover most needs.
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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ND GRAPHICS stocks ALL of Roger's products...although I'm not sure about quantities in your nearest branch. The good news is that if you want us to stock them for you "locally", all you ever have to do is ask...and maybe give us some idea of your anticipated monthly reuirements and preferred container size.
-------------------- Jon Aston MARKETING PARTNERS "Strategy, Marketing and Business Development" Tel 705-719-9209 Posts: 1724 | From: Barrie, ON, CANADA | Registered: Sep 2000
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