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Would someone please explain to me what a "GRAPHIC DESIGNER" is. I was trained in commercial design and have been a sign maker/shop owner for the past 33 years; but now I am being confronted with "Oh, but they don't just do signs, logos and such, they are graphic designers." Well, whoop-de-do! Alot of the times I hear this is when they're asking for a job at my shop!
-------------------- Frisby Signs, Inc. El Dorado, Arkansas Posts: 902 | From: El Dorado, Arkansas, USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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Roy, That's like asking what a "consultant" does. From the mouth of a "consultant" I learned that they do as little as possible, while making things look as tough as possible, and earn as MUCH as possible!!!!!
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
posted
I don't know that there is a lot of difference between a Sign Designer and a Graphic Designer. I have a degree in Graphic Design and basically, it (in my mind) means that there is a bigger emphasis on the integration of shapes, text, and a "look".
Doesn't sound much different than what a sign guy does, doesn't it?
It differs a bit from Commercial Design in that commercial art focuses more with the printed page and the relationship between text (body) and images in a way that draws the viewer into taking a closer look at the ad they are viewing and to evoke an emotional response to the ad that they won't forget.
This is my take anyway.....
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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No use sating More on this "TODD's Got it" I know I was trained as a Techinal Illustrator then while at Rocketdyne I was Classiffied as Commerical artist air brush photo Realistic art of space ships and appoloo project. when they came up with Graphic Designer allong came alot of BS. People ask Me for work . I show them what I do and they go away shaking there Heads saying How do you do that.
-------------------- Danny Bussell Tujunga, California
Bootleg on Chat
"Keep The Rubber Side Down" Posts: 213 | From: Tujunga, California | Registered: Mar 2003
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Anything can be Graphic, such as a dead man in the street, that is Graphic.
But a Graphics Designer is a special person like someones wife, daughter, husband, son or nephew using their computer to design their signs for you to make because daddy hasn't bought them a cutter yet Their experience can range from artist 1.0 to PhotoShop. In the past their experience came from Letterset, ya'll remember Letterset doncha? Where ya had to use tweezers to get the letter ( now called font ) off the paper and on to whatever is was you were working with.
Graphic Designer is a hitman but a Graphics Designer is somewhat like an architech
-------------------- HotLines Joey Madden - pinstriping since 1952 'Perfection, its what I look for and what I live for'
posted
i was able to draw at an early age....so all my family said i was and artist. i took an interest in signage when i was 9-10 cause i liked all the "graphics"(pictures cars, houses, boat,space ships, planes etc etc)they now call it clip art, cause someone who was a artist and liked graphics was able to DRAW...drew them!!!!! with the advent of the computer, they needed a name for a person who liked "clipart" and if they could put it proper perspective with some "fonts" on a computer screen...he was an "graphic artist"!!! wala.....now these kids who can do that are now GRAPHIC ARTISTS......when they came in my shop lookin for work and told me they were graphic artist....i handed them a big yellow legal pad and a # 2 pencil....they looked at it and said whats this?....i told them to draw me something......and next was " oh i can draw on the computer, i cant even draw a stick figure with a pencil." so when i hear "graphic artist"...this is what i envision.
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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My training was called "commercial art" in high school.
Back then, the classes included layout and paste up for newsprint ads, concept renderings for architecture, airbrushing, cartooning, silk screening, hand lettering with Speedaball pens and a lot of time spent in the "graphic arts" shop learning how the printing process worked. There were no "study" classes, but shop related acedemic courses instead.
Althought the classes were nowhere near as intense or specialized as college courses, they were a good foundation of many art and design principles, most of which I still call upon to this day as a sign maker.
Over the years as computers have become more commonly used for design and art, I still get a laugh when I see the cut, copy and paste commands on my screen. I still remember when that meant scissors, Xeroxing and rubber cement.
A lot of art terminology has been redefined by the computer industry, but I still prefer whipping out a stabilo, roughing out a cartoon or some freehand lettering. Heck, most of the time I don't follow my own lines, but that's the fun of it, right?
A long time friend once told me that I was "an artist who just happens to paint race cars".
I can live with that. Rapid
-------------------- Ray Rheaume Rapidfire Design 543 Brushwood Road North Haverhill, NH 03774 rapidfiredesign@hotmail.com 603-787-6803
I like my paint shaken, not stirred. Posts: 5648 | From: North Haverhill, New Hampshire | Registered: Apr 2003
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I believe a graphics designer would hold a bachelors degree in graphic design from a 4 year university to even qualify to use the title. If you smoked pot and slinged paint your whole life, your still a sign maker.
Now if your a sign maker who can do a pretty damn good job at graphics design, you probably qualify to call your self a "Graphic Artist".
-------------------- Bruce Evans Crown Graphics Chino, CA graphics@westcoach.net Posts: 913 | From: Chino, CA | Registered: Nov 1998
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A person who chooses appropriate mediums and tools, uses them to create graphic elements and put them together in ways that look good, convey a message, sell a service or product, and reach a targeted audience.
If a person can do this well and make loads of money ... all the better.
Not sure what all the fuss is about.
Nettie
-------------------- "When Love and Skill Work Together ... Expect a Masterpiece"
I understand the frustration of having people come in saying they are "graphic artists" or "designers" when they couldn't design their way out of a paper sack. But, there are also "sign painters" and "pinstripers" with the same lack of ability.
-------------------- Joe Endicott NEXCOM (Navy Exchange Service Command) Signing Programs Specialist Virginia Beach, VA jeendicott@msn.com
"I want to be Stereotyped....I want to be Classified." Posts: 681 | From: Virginia Beach, VA USA | Registered: Mar 1999
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there ya go, Nettie! Good answer! I have always found it difficult to answer someone when they ask me what I do for a living, if you say "graphic artist" or "commercial artist" people look at you with a dumbfounded look and then ask what exactly that means. I mostly just tell them that I get paid to sit around and draw pictures, but even that is not entirely accurate. My "formal education" was alot like Ray's, "B.C." before computers, it involved things like paste-ups, hand rendering fonts, illustration techniques using airbrush, markers, ink, lots and lots of just plain ol drawing with charcoal and newsprint. Over the years, I have designed logos, advertisements, book covers, posters... I also worked in a couple of sign shops, learned the fundamentals of hand lettering, sign layouts... I've worked in the theatre, designing and constructing sets and backdrops... I've worked in screenprinting shops, designing the camera-ready art and slingin' the ink as well... I have painted murals, designed CD covers, made lots of banners (both painted and quickee-stikee), websites, brochures, business cards, airbrushed alot of t-shirts... I guess that makes me a graphic designer or commercical artist or as my father-in-law calls me: "a bum without a respectable 9-5 job!"lol
In college there was a feud between the "art majors"- the ones who were painting and sculpting, and the "graphic design majors" They summed it up pretty good when they refered to us as "Art Prostitutes" that will create and design anything for money!
so I guess I need to start answering the phone: "hey baby, ya looking for some design action..."
-------------------- Michael Clanton Clanton Graphics/ Blackberry 19 Studio 1933 Blackberry Conway AR 72034 501-505-6794 clantongraphics@yahoo.com Posts: 1737 | From: Conway Arkansas | Registered: Oct 2001
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posted
I agree with Nettie, Graphic design (you would get a funny look around my office if you said "graphics designer") is a loosly based term for what any one who designs elements for the advertising, editorial, informational, entertainment media. It gets worse, graphic design is broken up into specialties like "new media" "illustration" "exhibit design" "packaging design" "branding consultants" "print design" "typographic design" "sign design" and my least favorite, but the one that describes what I do "environmental graphic design" and all those are broken down into sub-specialties including sign design, Lets face it we argue constantly about paint vs vinyl or "if it ain't electical it aint no sign", and I don't know a single designer in any of those specialties that can lay claim to knowing all of it. I think of it this way, sign design is part of "graphic design" family it's treated like the bastard child of the family, but is part of graphic design in the purest form, signage is one of the oldest advertising mediums dating back thousands of years. It has all the elements that traditional "commercial artist/graphic designers use" You don't have to go to school for it, in fact most "college" courses only teach tools not form. But a good education helps to understand and apply it's principles. (Art Center, Cal Arts, Otis, RISD, Cranbrook, University of Cincinati are a few who offer great courses) By the way, when I was in high school, a "commercial artists" were the grunts of the design industry, they were "graphic artists or designers" they did the cool concept work, the commercial artists made it happen. I looked at some of my moms old design magazines and they are calling Designers like Saul Bass, Paul Rand and Alvin Lustig graphic designers. So it's not a new term, and they werent call "graphics" designers. Some good information can be found in a book called "The History of Grahic Design" as well as "Typology" and "Graphic Style" as well as the design industry magazines "How" "Print" "Communication Arts" "Step by Step" "Mertropolis" "Baseline" "Eye" and "CMYK" I know most here will not even look into it, but there is always the wrong perception on graphic design and graphic designers as a whole, just as much as graphic designers have a wrong perception of us, I would think educating yourself to the difference would make you a better "sign designer" and graphic designer
Rick Forgive me for my spelling, I have to go to work. I'll check it later...
-------------------- Rick Chavez Hemet, CA Posts: 1540 | From: Hemet,CA U.S.A. | Registered: Jun 2001
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I always cringe when somebody asks me what I do as I know no matter what name I choose , a lenghty explnation is gonna be required. Sign painter used to work just fine but these days I don't do many signs, plus if the person is in their thirties you get a dumb look, they think signs are "stickers" Pinstriper requires another yet explanation as most people aren't familiar with hand painted striping around here. I just tell them I'm an artist and let it go at that. When they enivitably ask what I paint, I tell them anything and everyting. My favorite term , though is "sign whore" but some people find that confusing if not offensive and by gosh, I for one sure don't want to offend anyone. ( OK, those that know me can stop laughing now )
[ October 03, 2003, 11:20 AM: Message edited by: George Perkins ]
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
posted
A sign shop owner must wear many hats and be a "Jack of all trades" often including but not limited to design, construction, inventory control, accounting, custodian, sales, marketing (for self and for customers), artist, coach, computer geek, teacher, employer and so on...
Someone calling themself a graphic designer has narrowed their focus, or claim of talent/skill, to a portion of what a sign shop owner typically does.
I think the term "graphic designer" itself is too generic. It needs further explanation like "I'm a graphic designer, I work for Ford in their consumer literature department laying out new truck brochures." Now THAT makes some sence.
Nettie's definition works well because it's generic but still covers all the bases. Without further explanation however you don't know exactly what a particular "graphic designer" does for a living.
-------------------- David McDonald Palm Harbor Florida USA
posted
OK, here's my take on it...It's kind of like yellow pages ads...They wany me to advertise under "signs" "graphics" "lettering" and "truck painting/lettering" because my competitor might put an ad in any or all of these categories. It's a way for the colleges to get tuition for different areas that are basically the same or closely related.
Bottom line is that you cannot under estimate raw, natural talent. That cannot be taught. I have had artists who went to college, and some who have not. They were both talented in their own way. Graphic Artist, Graphic Designer, who cares. Here we use the title Creative Director. Pretty much says it all.
""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3503 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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I have the same problem as George, it is very hard to explain my job, even to people in the sign biz or on this board. I go to a graphic design forum (www.howdesign.com) and they understand, most likley because they know who I work for. I do design signs, but on a different scale than most. In the end I end up saying that I design big and small signs, or go the the website where I work, and thats it.
Rick
-------------------- Rick Chavez Hemet, CA Posts: 1540 | From: Hemet,CA U.S.A. | Registered: Jun 2001
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to simplify it.....take the term musician...."one who performs music"....same with graphic artist....just different instruments.....some play a brush others computers.
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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-------------------- --If you don't care where you are, you ain't lost.
Tony Potter Blind Mice and Company 3001 Bever Ave. SE Cedar Rapids, IA 52403 (319) 573-9001 www.blindmiceandcompany.com tonypotter@yahoo.com Posts: 209 | From: Cedar Rapids, IA | Registered: Nov 1999
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Around Nashville any reference to the word "graphic Designer" denotes "an entry level artsy person" This area has been flooded with degreed "graphic designers" that are only interested in doing MTV stle work. They have really given us old timers a bad name. Evryone tries to group us all as "graphic designers". I personally consider the Nashville use of the word beneath me. I can not work for minimum wage like the new age "graphic artists". It's just the current trend here.
posted
Thanks everyone for your replies. I have now come to the conclusion that I am qualified to call myself a "sign maker", yeah, I can live with that!
-------------------- Frisby Signs, Inc. El Dorado, Arkansas Posts: 902 | From: El Dorado, Arkansas, USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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Roy, I've used the term "sign artist" and that seems to satisfy most folks. Like you, I've heard so many people say they were Graphic Artists, that the term has no meaning to me. Usually, the ones I've come in contact with are just out of college and hand me a portfolio of work done as class assignments...and most rather badly. I've hired a few and found out that they didn't learn much in the Graphic Artist's School and didn't seem to want to learn any more. Basically, they wanted my job. Since I was the person signing the checks I thought that my position was rather secure.
But, on the other hand, I've seen some that had a great attitude and overcame the stigma of having "great potential" and actually became great designers.
-------------------- Chapman Sign Studio Temple, Texas chapmanstudio@sbcglobal.net Posts: 6306 | From: Temple, Texas, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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hahaha pat ...since i got a MOBILE SIGN SHOP,,,yea i charge more and i show up ...TO WORK, not take measurements,,,,heheheheheh
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Their experience can range from artist 1.0 to PhotoShop. In the past their experience came from Letterset, ya'll remember Letterset doncha? Where ya had to use tweezers to get the letter ( now called font ) off the paper and on to whatever is was you were working with. 
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