posted
Just a reminder that the informal hand lettering weekend is still on for November 7-8 at my shop in Texas. This will be a no-frills gathering that is free. If you would like to chip in for coffee and donuts that would be nice, but not required. There are several places to eat really close by and places to stay within a few blocks.
There will be no T-Shirts or door prizes but a really great learning experience if you would like to learn how to hand letter. We will have lots of panels ready and may be able to swindle some paint out of 1-Shot.
If there is anything else that you would like to learn about, just let me know ahead of time and I will try to have some materials ready for you to practice on. My son, Mike, is really good at cutting out HDU letters and applying PB Resin, so he is going to demonstrate that and have some things to practice on if you would like.
The weather is nice in Texas in November, so it shouldn't be too hot or too cool.
This will be a laid back time for you to enjoy the company of other sign freeks and learn something in the process.
If you would like to come, just e-mail me and I will send you some motel information and such.
chapmanstudio@sbcglobal.net
Temple is located on I-35 about 70 miles north of Austin and 120 miles south of Dallas. Pretty much in the central part of the state. There are no mountains, forests, or sparkling waterfalls, but we do have lots of dirt.
[ September 25, 2003, 02:36 PM: Message edited by: Raymond Chapman ]
-------------------- Chapman Sign Studio Temple, Texas chapmanstudio@sbcglobal.net Posts: 6306 | From: Temple, Texas, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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About 40 miles South is Inner Space Caverns, a nice side jaunt. The Texas Hill Country is just Southwest of Temple. Within 80 miles are waterfalls, forests, Granite and Limestone hills that rise up to 1000' above the surrounding terrain, along many beautiful roads. Anyone driving to Temple would be well rewarded with a detour off the beaten path either going or coming.
-------------------- David Harding A Sign of Excellence Carrollton, TX Posts: 5089 | From: Carrollton, TX, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Sounds like you work for the Chamber of Commerce. Actually, it is rather nice here. I live very close to that lake and it is very relaxing to just sit under a tree and watch the water.
-------------------- Chapman Sign Studio Temple, Texas chapmanstudio@sbcglobal.net Posts: 6306 | From: Temple, Texas, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Good Idea Skip Video tape it,write it all down in book form,burn it on a CD that can be sold to the type of people that think it MUST be as easy as it looks when done!
posted
Sounds like a way too interesting place - if somebody was to have a meet out to Flat or No Trees maybe there'd be less distraction for the paint heads to get down to bidness.
Posts: 1859 | From: / | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Raymond, that sounds like a wonderful opportunity. I'm sure it will exceed any & all expectations & being a no-frills event only adds to the value I can see myself finding there. It would take some monumental changes on my personal event horizon for me to attend, but nothing is ruled out either. Have a great time!
I feel, as a participent here, as though I've been personally handed another invitation to a real cool deal... one of these days I'll be able to accept.
*edited out my rant on Pats sarcasm*
[ September 29, 2003, 07:11 PM: Message edited by: Doug Allan ]
posted
Thanks Doug Point taken...Not quite elitise as you might think Sarcastic would be the word that I use for hoping to get everyone one off thier duff. You can view it like GOLD....If it was just laying around on top of the ground,where anybody and everybody could just pick it up. It lessens the VALUE as oppossed to having to dig for it.
-------------------- PKing is Pat King The Professor of SIGNOLOGY Posts: 3113 | From: Pompano Beach, FL. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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quote:...a CD that can be sold to the type of people that think it MUST be as easy as it looks when done!
I "bought" (as in simply paid for duplication & shipping costs) the hand lettering video of Al Zanetti which Kimberly so generously offered at, or below, her actual costs.
did I think it looked easy? did I think it was easy before seeing the video?, do I think it is easy now? Have I done any hand lettering myself yet? WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE? ...TO YOU OR ANYONE?
The fact remains that the noble goal of "keeping the craft alive" is well served by documenting it & distributing it. Is hands on live training better then watching a video? I really don't think anyone needs to ask that question, I just don't know why you seem to devote your life to answering it. Your efforts at getting people "off their duff" may be well intentioned, but Skip may well have perfectly valid reasons for not feeling able to drive down from Michigan at the moment. Sitting on his duff, may not actually be his reason, any more then it is my reason for not spending $1200 in airfare & at least that much in lost sales, (not to mention other travel expenses) just because it would be better then a video.
If someone wanted to videotape Raymonds class, I'll wager a years Letterville tax, that people would line up to pre-pay for expenses to get a copy & anyone offering to do that would have over 20 paying customers in a week.
Pat, I honestly believe in your passion for hand-lettering, but I think someone like Kimberly who, as far as I know, doesn't even do much hand lettering herself, does more to promote the craft through her exuberance, then you will ever do through sarcasm.
posted
“The Future is Now?” Where’s the nearest transporter station? Oh, I forgot, ...high-tech=high-bucks.
It’s the time, distance & costs therein that are involved for me as well, and I’m only in Illinois (much closer than many.) I passionately want to be there. Perhaps I’ll find a way. I can’t think of a better opportunity, unless the venue for Ray’s gracious contribution to share what he knows were much closer.
A truly serious “capture the content” effort to record the content shared at this event would no doubt be an invaluable advantage to many, but who would be able to do such a thing? If well done, it would be a priceless asset to the community for a long time to come. Seems to me to be another opportunity we shouldn’t let slip past us. Hummm
-------------------- Dave Parr Sign Painter USA Posts: 709 | From: USA | Registered: May 2003
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If everyone pays me $40.00 US I will fly down there videotape the important parts, and send a copy to those who payed. When I get back if anyone else wants a copy they will pay $50.00 for a copy.
One side note. I need at least 20 people to make this pre-purchase to make it worth it and cover all expenses.
If I get enough pre-purchases I could offer a rebate, based on total expenses for the effort. I am not in it for the dough, I'm in it for the fact that I cant afford to go and would like to see this come to video, so by each of you paying a portion of my expenses I get to go. The downside to this is that I get stuck with my face to a camera the majority of the time I'm there. Not necessarily a great time to be had by me.
Put your names here if your still interested, and I'm sure we can work out some sort of plan to get it all paid for.
-------------------- Harris Kohen K-Man Pinstriping and Graphix Trenton, NJ "Showing the world that even I can strategically place the pigment where its got to go." Posts: 1739 | From: Trenton, NJ, USA | Registered: Jun 2001
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There's my name Harris, I'm in! I expect you to have no fun & take this very seriously! The better the results, the more we will all be able to benefit from Ray’s kind gesture (and your's too.) We have to think of posterity here! No fun now ya hear? Are you qualified as a photo journalist? If not yer fired!
All kidding aside, this is a great idea Harris, thank you for the offer. Let’s make this work. Do you want to wait a bit to see what the response is before setting up laying out your payment needs?
dave
-------------------- Dave Parr Sign Painter USA Posts: 709 | From: USA | Registered: May 2003
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posted
Of course we would have to check with Ray to see that he is OK with this idea.
I guess the best we could do is to make up some sort of deadline like maybe sign up by the 10th of October and payments would be due by the 20th of October.
I wouldnt want anyone to send me any money until were pretty sure there would be enough interest to make it a viable deed. I will post that the night of the 10th with any pertinent information regarding where to send your payment etc.etc...
Like I said, the cost of doing this whole thing is all I want to recoup. Any leftover moneys would be distributed among those that sent in their payments.
names on the list as of now: Dave Parr Harris Kohen
we only need 18 more to make this work, somehow I think we will get plenty more than that.
-------------------- Harris Kohen K-Man Pinstriping and Graphix Trenton, NJ "Showing the world that even I can strategically place the pigment where its got to go." Posts: 1739 | From: Trenton, NJ, USA | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
If $40 is what it takes to get a copy, I'll put my money where my mouth is & get on the list... but for the record My completely serious "wager" of BB taxes is based on 20 people lining up to get a copy for the price of video-taping, duplicating & shipping expenses, rather then for New Jersey to Texas travelling expenses. Not that anyone wanted to accept my wager... but just for the record.
So, thanks for stepping up to the plate Harris... put me on the list! (You got a video camera already? ...just curious)
Names on the list as of now: Dave Parr Harris Kohen Doug Allan
-------------------- Harris Kohen K-Man Pinstriping and Graphix Trenton, NJ "Showing the world that even I can strategically place the pigment where its got to go." Posts: 1739 | From: Trenton, NJ, USA | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
I have some mixed opinions on the "video expenses" issue. I know I liked Skip's idea of getting a chance to see a video, & a good one would be worth $40, but here are my thoughts today.
First, I think in the same manner that a sponsor could negatively impact a meet if not handled correctly, so could a financially driven video, even if "not for profit". I'm sure the group in Temple would never let that happen... but that would, in turn, affect the video &/or the enjoyment of the man behind the camera. Take George's video offer for example... his recent meet video was shot by choice for his own enjoyment & later made available for around $12. It was as much a glimpse into a live meet, as it was a hand-lettering video. The Al Zanetti video was from a TV show, so it was all done just for the camera, & offered a different level of focus on the subject at hand. I'm sure Raymonds talents are very much worth having showcased as a hand-lettering video, but until then I think I'm going to bow out on $40 videos & be more interested in when the next $12 one comes along
I think if someone who was going to Temple anyway, & wanted to capture some of the live action for there own purposes, then later accepting requests to provide copies at cost (video duplication & shipping costs)would be right alongside the spirit of Raymonds no-fee lettering get-together.
Just to be clear I am in no way suggesting that I find Harris's offer any less then an honest intention to provide a not-for-profit service. But I would rather see him make it to meets where he can then spend his time as he wishes, rather then be under pressure to live up to some professional obligations.
BTW, I did exchange emails with raymond & I was invited to post his reply which follows:
quote: As far as the idea of making a video is concerned - that's fine with me, as long as I don't have to do it or distribute it. Twenty years ago, when I did the first Letterhead gathering here in Texas, we put a lot of the seminar stuff on video and I sent it out to those who wanted one for the cost of the tape and shipping. If that is what is being suggested, then I have no objection. If someone wants to pay the expenses of someone else to come and do the filming, then that is up to them. Hopefully, the video would be sold at cost and is not a ploy to make money off a free seminar in addition to having someone else pay for the trip. I'm not sure how much instruction you will be able to get from a video made in this type setting, but if someone wants to give it a try, I certainly will not object. I do think that whoever takes on this project will be in for a lot of bookwork and trouble getting the tapes copied and shipped. Since they will be using my studio and my "seminar" time I would hope that they would drop a few dollars into the kitty to help offset the cost of the coffee and donuts. If you want to post this reply on the BB you certainly have my blessing
posted
Anyone who wants to video anything during this weekend is certainly welcome to do it. If you distribute it, my only request is that it be done at cost, because that is the nature of the gathering itself - a learning experience of sharing.
Also, the purpose of this weekend is to share what all of us know with others. It is not about making a video on hand lettering. If that happens in the process, all is well and good, as long as it doesn't hinder those who have come from learning.
The weather is beginning to cool down and between now and then Mike and I will try to shovel out the shop so there will be room to walk around. It's hard to believe that it has been 20 years since I hosted that first meet in Texas back in '83. We called that gathering Lone Star Letterheads, so I guess we could name this one Lone Star Revisited.
-------------------- Chapman Sign Studio Temple, Texas chapmanstudio@sbcglobal.net Posts: 6306 | From: Temple, Texas, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I’m trying to make it. At the very least, I’ll provide some comic relief for Raymond–he can use me as an example of someone with 32 years experience in the sign industry who has acquired zero hand lettering skills in that time.
-------------------- David Harding A Sign of Excellence Carrollton, TX Posts: 5089 | From: Carrollton, TX, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
David is a perfect example to those who are always using hand lettering as the bench mark for designers. Although he has zip skills in hand lettering, he produces some outstanding signs. And this is not meant to start a long thread about the advantages of hand lettering skills - just an observation.
Come on down David, we might just get a brush in your hand after all these years. Of course, then I would have nothing to rib you about.
-------------------- Chapman Sign Studio Temple, Texas chapmanstudio@sbcglobal.net Posts: 6306 | From: Temple, Texas, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Raymond, you will still have plenty of ammo to use on me--my skill level probably will not progress beyond the ribbing level after two days... but it’ll be a start!
-------------------- David Harding A Sign of Excellence Carrollton, TX Posts: 5089 | From: Carrollton, TX, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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What is the anticipated start time on the workshop on Friday? I'm trying to get our schedule cleared so my wife and I can make it. She will probably hole up at the lake in our small motor home, the H.M.S. Sophie (I named it after her--after all, the motor home was HER idea), and catch up on some reading while I do my best Slappy Hooper imitation.
-------------------- David Harding A Sign of Excellence Carrollton, TX Posts: 5089 | From: Carrollton, TX, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Now David, you are trying to make this thing way too organized. I imagine that the early part of Friday morning will be just getting folks in and a cup of coffee in their hand and getting to know each other. Maybe by 10:30 or so I will start the "formal" class...or it may start earlier...or it may be after lunch. If it seems that we have some that really want to jump in and get started I may do some one-on-one earlier and then have a more structured class later. Hey, it's a Letterhead gathering. I think you'll get your money's worth before you leave.
I just imagine that the instruction will be repeated several times over Friday and Saturday as some come and go.
If you are coming and want to share something, you are certainly welcomed to do just about anything as long as it is legal.
-------------------- Chapman Sign Studio Temple, Texas chapmanstudio@sbcglobal.net Posts: 6306 | From: Temple, Texas, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
To those whose name is on the list, if it grows enough, its still a GO.
To Doug, I understand your feelings on this and quite honestly cannot blame you, as I would probably think the same things.
For what its worth. The video tape issue was just an idea that popped out of my head. Do I think it will happen? NO! Would I like it to happen? YES! Do I care if Someone else videotapes it? NO!
I just made an honest offer with GOOD INTENT
Be that as it may. If there are enough people on the list by next Friday, I will begin to make the proper arrangements for this video to become a reality.
-------------------- Harris Kohen K-Man Pinstriping and Graphix Trenton, NJ "Showing the world that even I can strategically place the pigment where its got to go." Posts: 1739 | From: Trenton, NJ, USA | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
If you do some videos, may I suggest the camera be really close? I noticed that the video George did at the Sandcastle meet, seems a little far away to really see the fingers good. The camera was about one foot behind a the shoulder, so I guess it would be best either be right over the shoulder, or closer, if it was on a boom of some sort. It would be kinda annoying to the letterer, but the video would be real good.
-------------------- Jeff Ogden 8727 NE 68 Terr. Gainesville FL, 32609 Posts: 2138 | From: 8827 NE 68 Terr Gainesville Fl 32609 | Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
Well Jeff, I would love to be able to have the camera in the position of the eyes of the person handling the brush, but I don't think that is going to happen. I talked with Raymond today about videotaping the Meet, and I have to agree with him that if it interferes with the Meet type function then he isn't OK with it.
The best I could imagine doing would be to zoom in closely to the hand of whomever is operating the brush at the time of taping. That to me doesn't seem to be un-do-able.
I cannot imagine that this will be any worse or better than some of the videos that everyone knows of like the "Air Brush Action" videos. You get out of each video what you can, and do with them as you please.
-------------------- Harris Kohen K-Man Pinstriping and Graphix Trenton, NJ "Showing the world that even I can strategically place the pigment where its got to go." Posts: 1739 | From: Trenton, NJ, USA | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
Skip;Thanks for the advice about what you might think a "life" is? I have been trying for 52 years. To some I have one,to others I don't Guess I just can't please EVERYONE that seems to think thier idea is right for everyone else
-------------------- PKing is Pat King The Professor of SIGNOLOGY Posts: 3113 | From: Pompano Beach, FL. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Hey Pat, How Ya Doing? The first time I read this thread, I somehow didn't take what you said about video tape, learning & being there too personally. I certainly don't think of myself as a master of hand lettering or the last word in judging character. Having meet you in Atlanta, I took your comments as a kind of motivational humor, nothing more (just a reminder to us all that you get out what you put in, I think you've earned the right to say that if you needed to in the first place.) I re-read the thread again, got the same thing. Hope things are going OK for you. Would love to be there, just don't think I can.
dave
-------------------- Dave Parr Sign Painter USA Posts: 709 | From: USA | Registered: May 2003
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posted
Mr. Chapman; The mood of your intent generates the feeling of a time when one developed their ability and wisdom in sign writing through their personal application of energy through an appreteciship in a sign shop, rather than through the purchass of software for their gadget. However brash the youngsters and clip artists come off with their attitudes are just a reflection of the times, and one might reflect back to the four basics, and their sub divisions in sign writing of long ago that the majority of the gadget kids have yet to learn, (if they so choose). Overall, the computer has changed the sign guy of many years ago from an artist, currently to a vendor, and what you wish to provide with your intended gathering does not seem to be fully understood by many.
Regards J.G. Kurtzman
-------------------- John Kurtzman J.G. Kurtzman Sign Shop 97 Taylor Ave. Norwalk, Ct. 06854
----------------------------------- Creative communication since 1959 Posts: 213 | From: So. Norwalk, Ct. USA | Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
I'm sorry to say there wasnt enough interest. I didnt think that it would happen anyway. I put my foot in my mouth and made the offer anyway.
Perhaps we will be lucky enough that someone there will do it for us??
-------------------- Harris Kohen K-Man Pinstriping and Graphix Trenton, NJ "Showing the world that even I can strategically place the pigment where its got to go." Posts: 1739 | From: Trenton, NJ, USA | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
Doug, years ago, I happily paid out about $185 for Mike Steven's video on hand lettering and layout. Did I say "happily"? Guess I did, didn't I. Only regret is that I lent the tape to a newbie who never returned it.
Things are worth what things are worth. Always have been and always will be. Holdin out for something that's not worth more than the cost of a blank tape and some postage to you will generally get you something that is worth exactly that. A couple exceptions have been mentioned. They are rare.
[ October 10, 2003, 08:39 PM: Message edited by: Don Coplen ]
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