posted
This is about surface prep, so I thought I'd share it. I've been at an auto restoration site trying to get answers to a question, but no one had it.
My situation is thus: I've been asked to bid on painting two pullman type RR cars, probably made in the 1930's. The problem being that they have a BUNCH of those "battleship rivet-looking thingies", you know, they look like carriage bolt heads, something you'd put together a bridge with. I'll need to sand the entire surface, including rivet heads, to make the new paint adhere. I counted the rivets on one area, then multiplied by the entire area, The figure is about 5200 rivets! Man oh golly, did I die and go "south" that I should have to hand sand five thousand, two hundred odd rivets?
I decided to investigate blasting with corn cob media. What I need to do is scruff the painted surface, without removing paint, or leaving pits in the paint. Like I said no one at the other site knew about it, so I called a rep from Sanmar, the local sandblast media distributor. He said corn cob probably wouldn't work. He suggested his finest sand, I think it's called 80b. He even gave me a bag for trial sake, that was cool.
Maybe with a regular full sized blaster it would have removed the paint, but with the little red job, it did EXACTLY what I wanted. The rivets and surounding areas end up sanded, but the paint isn't damaged.
I'll be able to bid this job at a cost not much more than if it was flat metal. Thank God for ideas that actually work. Some of my ideas don't work as well, (just call me Wiley Coyote).
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
How about using a Paasche Air Eraser and its " Aluminum Oxide" for the media. It will take less time then sanding and prep the rivits perfectly for paint. The cost on it is around $50. complete with hose, ready to run on any compressor, large or small.
-------------------- HotLines Joey Madden - pinstriping since 1952 'Perfection, its what I look for and what I live for'
quote:I'll be able to bid this job at a cost not much more than if it was flat metal.
Why on earth would you do this? You've gone through the research, experimentation & hassel of finding out how to do this job. Add that to the materials & time needed to do it and you're not going to charge a premium for it? You're leaving money on the table dude.
-------------------- Chris Welker Wildfire Signs Indiana, Pa Posts: 4254 | From: Indiana, PA | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
Here's another suggestion: Dremmel Tools make a wire brush "cup" that attaches to their chuck head and spins in a circular motion. These are relatively small, so they'd probably fit right around one of those round rivet heads, and if used in a cordless drill would scuff that rounded circular surface in no time flat. It might save the time of setting up a complete sandblasting unit, and the added cleanup of all that sand media before painting.
Just a thought....hope it helps you out.
-------------------- Ken Henry Henry & Henry Signs London, Ontario Canada (519) 439-1881 e-mail: kjmlhenry@rogers.com
Why do I get all those on-line offers to sell me Viagara, when the only thing hardening is my arteries ? Posts: 2689 | From: London,Ontario, Canada | Registered: Feb 1999
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posted
Ken is right on the Dremel tool, but be aware that this item is available as either a brass or steel brush. The only drawback with the brass one is that if you run your RPM up too high, that brass "cup" turns into a disc, and will not return to a cup shape.
Just recently ran into this when I wanted to rotary wire-brush letters cut into a wood sign. The steel brush will hold its shape.
-------------------- Bill Preston Fly Creek, N.Y. USA Posts: 943 | From: Fly Creek, N.Y. USA | Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
and this job needs to be done by.......2010? sounds like a career rather than a job....hahahahahahaha. somewhere in my memeory...most of those PULMAN CARS where built in pa. and i think the factory was in butler.....could be wrong.....
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
...did a "P.R." job this weekend...won't break even on it (but sold the formed letters... home office s'ed "Do the right thing, which is usually the most expensive thing for them... )Anyway, The P.R. thing was reworking file cabinets that someone else had REALLY messed up with too many coats of prison grey, oil-base paint. There's probaly a special lil' place in hell for people who should NOT be paintin' but go ahead an' try to anyway... SO, I said "Yeh, I guess, uh, I think, I can fix 'em......" About an hour into it and I hauled them ungodly heavy jokers to my sandblastin' buddy. Although the sand blastin' did a great job on the smooth surfaces (the slight "texture" was easily removed with the palm sander)...there were ALL THESE DRAWERS....no, NOT just regular file cabinet drawers. Each of the 3 cabinets had 18 - 2"x10" little drawers, each with it's own lil' individual slot, each drawer had a lil' alum. pull handle...each DRAWER, each SLOT, every HANDLE had crevices an' corner (a-hundred an' fourty-four of 'em) now are not only full of sand & dust, but GUMMY WADS of paint. My first tho't was to load 'em on the truck one last time...since there's no silly tail gate to "hold" 'em in there...BUT decide to counter attack with that wire brush on 'dat drill...that thing summarily polished that metal! Then sprayed on Wal-Marts .97 primer ...mixed together about 3 old partial cans of centari 'til I got a qut. of an acceptable "office blue for file cabinets"...an' now we're ALL happy, happy, happy. Total hours which include takin' them to my shop and unloadin' them so I can reload them again to travel to my buddy's shop in Timbuktu, Then get to unload them again at my place as well as cleanin' up all the sand an' gummy wads in the shop AND cleanin' myself up since I looked like I fell off a charcoal truck after slingin' all that steel dust....uh, well, I lose count of the total # of hours... just round it off to a week 'cuz that would cover all the phone calls after all them ladies changed their mind about initially doin' 'em red............WELL, ANYWAY. I sold a good job for s'um Gemini letters......Oh yeh, the "company" I went too far out on a limb for "The National Benevolent Association" ....foster kids services I guess ya gotta chose your battles, huh?
-------------------- Signs Sweet Home Alabama
oneshot on chat
"Look like a girl, act like a lady, think like a man, work like a dog" Posts: 5758 | From: "Sweet Home" Alabama | Registered: Mar 2003
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Have you checked out a spot blaster? They're great for doing 50¢ size circular areas one at a time and recycle most of the blast media. they also don't leave a "beach" when you're finished.
They have a nozzle that covers about the size you're describing and blasts only that area. I bought one from Eastwood a few years back for some auto body restoratiuon I was working on and it worked great.
posted
Thanks for the replies. I should emphasize that I also need to sand/blast the area right around the rivet, so that I won't need to get in there with a "DA". The rivets are about 2" apart and there's a bunch. That medthod Joey mentioned seems promising.
Kissy, I think you're right. It's easy to fall into one way of thinking. My goal lately has been to be sure I always get my shop rate, for every little 15 minute step that's part of the job. Then, once having that "down", go on to other pricing considerations. I've been pretty good about it, in fact, on a recent window job I "overdid" it a little, and ended up making 50 bucks an hour, more than my usual rate. It felt so groovy gravy that I raised my rates. In regards to this job, the customer, who I work with alot, insisted that I charge them for my experimentation time, which I intend to do. As I'm typing this, I'm starting to remember details of the last time they were painted. It was done by another company, and they hired people off the street to do some of their work. They charged less than I would, but they show up when they feel like it, etc. If I charge alot more than my usual rate, the RR co will have to weigh one set of circumstances against another. I guess I have to determine just how much the shop foreman dislikes working with what he called "three tooth rednecks", and price accordingly! Thanks again Kissy.
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
Keep in mind that if you dont make GOOD money on this job, YOU LOSE. remember that this is a big job and while your spending all those days doing this job other customers are going somewhere else for their signs. Now im not telling you to Rape this customer, but what I am saying is to make a little more than you think you should because your bound to lose some other work that you may never be able to regain.
-------------------- Harris Kohen K-Man Pinstriping and Graphix Trenton, NJ "Showing the world that even I can strategically place the pigment where its got to go." Posts: 1739 | From: Trenton, NJ, USA | Registered: Jun 2001
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![[Wink]](wink.gif)
)Anyway, The P.R. thing was reworking file cabinets that someone else had REALLY messed up with too many coats of prison grey, oil-base paint. There's probaly a special lil' place in hell for people who should NOT be paintin' but go ahead an' try to anyway... SO, I said "Yeh, I guess, uh, I think, I can fix 'em......" About an hour into it and I hauled them ungodly heavy jokers to my sandblastin' buddy. Although the sand blastin' did a great job on the smooth surfaces (the slight "texture" was easily removed with the palm sander)...there were ALL THESE DRAWERS....no, NOT just regular file cabinet drawers. Each of the 3 cabinets had 18 - 2"x10" little drawers, each with it's own lil' individual slot, each drawer had a lil' alum. pull handle...each DRAWER, each SLOT, every HANDLE had crevices an' corner (a-hundred an' fourty-four of 'em) now are not only full of sand & dust, but GUMMY WADS of paint. My first tho't was to load 'em on the truck one last time...since there's no silly tail gate to "hold" 'em in there...BUT decide to counter attack with that wire brush on 'dat drill...that thing summarily polished that metal! Then sprayed on Wal-Marts .97 primer ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
...mixed together about 3 old partial cans of centari 'til I got a qut. of an acceptable "office blue for file cabinets"...an' now we're ALL happy, happy, happy. Total hours which include takin' them to my shop and unloadin' them so I can reload them again to travel to my buddy's shop in Timbuktu, Then get to unload them again at my place as well as cleanin' up all the sand an' gummy wads in the shop AND cleanin' myself up since I looked like I fell off a charcoal truck after slingin' all that steel dust....uh, well, I lose count of the total # of hours... just round it off to a week 'cuz that would cover all the phone calls after all them ladies changed their mind about initially doin' 'em red............WELL, ANYWAY. I sold a good job for s'um Gemini letters......Oh yeh, the "company" I went too far out on a limb for "The National Benevolent Association" ....foster kids services ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
I guess ya gotta chose your battles, huh? 
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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