posted
Maybe some of you wood experts can help me here.
I make custom wood Scrabble boards for people (http://scrabbleboards.bizland.com). When I make an oak board, I biscuit-join and glue together two pieces of oak.
Usually, there is a slight misalignment at the seam. (Yes, I should be running the wood through a planer but it's another expense and I don't even have the room for it).
I sand the seam with a palm sander (I think that's the right term for it. I have all these tools and can never remember what they're called). I don't think it's an "orbital sander." You hold the top in your palm and it has a square bottom for the sandpaper.
Anyway, I start with 60 grit to flatten out the seam, then go to 120 grit and finish with 220. It takes a long time to flatten the wood with the 60 grit. Sometimes the 60 grit leaves some tiny circular marks that require extra finish sanding to clean up (I'm sanding in a straight line, back and forth, with the grain). These marks show up when I apply stain.
I have also tried the initial sanding with a "belt sander" (the one you hold with two hands) and 60 grit, and it flattens out the seam quickly, BUT it leaves a lot of "scratch marks" that require even longer finish sanding to clean up.
Either way, it seems like I'm spending way too much time sanding. Is there a better way?
posted
I'm not the woodworker but how about using polyurethane glue rather than wood glue. It would be a lot easier to sand. That's what my husband uses on his woodworking projects. We are partial to Titebonds brand over others for both wood projects and HDU.
-------------------- Amy Brown Life Skills 101 Private Address Posts: 3502 | From: Lake Helen, FL, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
You don't have a planer. Do you have a table saw? You can rip your wood on the saw with a "planer blade". Use that for your glue joints. If you do it right, the joint will be virtually invisible.
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7405 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
I'm no tool expert, but I think the "palm sanders" are similar to what you describe, except they just vibrate & require a lot of elbow grease still to remove any great amount of material no matter what grit you use. If you get "circular" scratchs then it sounds like a rotating sanding surface which I would tend to call an "orbital sander"
A tool I just bought at a garage sale & haven't even used yet could be just the tool for you. If you don't have room for a planer, your are referring to a large stationary type that you can feed a 12" board into & plane the whole thing in one pass. What I just got was a Makita hand-held planer that is slightly small then a belt sander but has an adjustable depth rotating blade about 3" wide recessed up into a nice flat 3" x 9" base.
posted
Peter, I have been called a "WoodWright" by trade. I, like many others here, know how hard it is to get back to the "Old World Craftsmanship". Think about it..... our grandfathers never used a belt sander !!!! and, their work was EXCELLENT!! It just takes elbow grease and PATIENCE !!! If you want your pieces to be of top quality, you must put your heart and soul into it. By hand sanding with a block of wood and sandpaper all the way up to 220 or 360 grit. Then, with oak, it has to be filled with a special filler to bring the grain up to smooth. Then, sealer and finish. If you are not concerned with the craftsmanship, the palm sander is the best you are going to get. I have a nice Black & Decker sander that has a switch that can go from orbital to "in-line" back and forth motions which does not leave the swirl marks you are speaking of. And, it takes a vertical half sheet of sandpaper. But, still...... hand sanding or scraping is the final approach to a very smooth finish. And, for a furniture grade finish.... you can use the rottenstone and pumice to achieve that mirror finish seen only in fine wood furniture !!! And, as far as the uneven joints. If you are using the biscuit joiner correctly, there shouldn't be uneven joints. But.....if you have an "off square" edge, the two boards will bow to fit the finished edge. A jointer or table saw is necessary for the absolute square edge of the boards to prevent the cupping or warping of your desired flat finish. And, don't apply too much pressure to the clamps when gluing up. I have been a custom woodworker for over 30 years and have learned a LOT from the experts in this field! And, I just looked at your website and you do some pretty cool stuff!!! One suggestion would be to use the MDF products with a real wood veneer finish. Either mahogany, oak, birch, or whatever. Then, you can rout the edge to a nice ogee and color the edge to match or contrast the woodtop finish. Then, you would not have the finishing problems you are having now with a much more stable product.
Hope this helps you some.
[ September 23, 2003, 03:43 PM: Message edited by: John Smith ]
-------------------- John Smith Kings Bay Signs (Retired) Kissimmee, Florida Posts: 822 | From: Central Florida - The Sunshine State | Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
I just wanted to add that the new Rigid Random orbit sander is awesome but the price is steep $149. 6" disc and random speed with a trigger you control, not a dial!!
I think you need a planer! Sorry I'm not more help.
-------------------- Amy Brown Life Skills 101 Private Address Posts: 3502 | From: Lake Helen, FL, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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I don't do a lot of woodwork anymore, but when I did I found you can't have too many sanders. Various types; DeWalt orbital palm, Milwaukee belt, Porter-Cable profile, and a 7 inch Makita variable speed circular grinder/sander.
The first one will give you circular marks with heavy grit sandpaper, or any paper for that matter if you get too rough with pressure. The belt type will give straight scratches with too coarse paper--try going to a finer grit for the initial sanding. Then try the palm for the next sanding step with even finer grit, and finish by hand.
The Makita is for taking stuff off in a hurry, when finish is not an issue----yet. It also works great for polishing/waxing your vehicle when you swap the sanding discs for a polishing bonnet. For that, you slow it down-- a lot.
The profile sander is a real neat tool, but is not for heavy-duty work. It works in very short straight line strokes, and has various shapes--or profiles that press fit to a shoe. The profiles take sticky back paper of whatever grit, and the idea is to sand odd shapes e.g. cove molding, or corners that nothing else will get into.
Good luck and have fun.
[ September 23, 2003, 04:30 PM: Message edited by: Bill Preston ]
-------------------- Bill Preston Fly Creek, N.Y. USA Posts: 943 | From: Fly Creek, N.Y. USA | Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
Sounds like you need a bigger & better finish sander. Using the belt sander & then a nice big hard-core vibratory sander might be the ticket. You could do two passes with progressively finer grit if need be. When finishing redwood signs we use an industrial belt sander and an industrial finish sander. The finish sander is almost as big as the belt sander & it's pretty agressive. I find that the belt sanding phase is actually the secret to the immacilate looking finish on transparent redwood finishes; painted copy too. Finishing up with hand buffing after the first sealer coat helps alot too.
-------------------- Glenn S. Harris
....back in the sign trade full time. Posts: 293 | From: Baton Rouge, LA, USA | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
Peter, Grab an arm load of them and take them by a cabinet shop. They will probably run them throught their 36 inch belt sander for a beer or two. It will save you a lot of grief and they will be less thirsty. After that you can sand them to finish with 220 with a random orbital sander. My friend the cabinet maker says that is as fine as you need to sand oak. Definitely not past 320. Good luck, Jack
-------------------- "Don't change horses in midstream, unless you spot one with longer legs" bronzeo oti Jack Davis 1410 Main St Joplin, MO 64801 www.imagemakerart.com jack@imagemakerart.com Posts: 1549 | From: Joplin, MO | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
A few years ago a magazine called 'Choice' did a review on orbital sanders and which one worked best. The Bosch random orbital sander won hands down for the most substrate removed and longest life from the sandpaper at the same time. It has a circular base, & uses velcro sanding pads with vacuum holes in them. It's excellent. I've not gone back to the rectangular or square sanders since using it. I'll hand sand where it won't reach, or use a little triangular sander. Use white aluminium oxide sandpaper for sanding/removing paint &/or sanding sealers, and use the dark red sandpapers for bare wood. But, as said above, try a cabinet making shop for a chance to use their big sanders first. Best wishes
-------------------- "Stewey" on chat
"...there are no limits when you aim for perfection..." Jonathan Livingston Seagull Posts: 7016 | From: Highgrove via Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia | Registered: Dec 2002
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