posted
My previous post about brush stroke minimization got me thinking about all the different thinners and reducers I use. I'm curious which ones people use and WHY or WHEN you use one instead of another.
I began using 1-Shot 6000 reducer, but it kept drying up and turning to jelly in the bottle i kept (i didn't use it often enough). so i switched to Penetrol (not sure why - it does the same thing). Sometimes I use the Hardener (mostly to speed up drying, which it doesn't seem to do that much). For a while I was using 1-shot Hi-Temp reducer. I've also got a quart of Edge and of Low Temp reducer (because their Hardener says to only thin with the Low Temp).
On the last project I switched back to the 6000 reducer (just poured it into a paper cup to avoid wasting another squeeze bottle). I got the paint thinned nicely and it dried pretty fast.
I know some people use turpentine (turps?) and other things -- why one over the other? does it depend on conditions or just "what you're used to"?
-------------------- :: Scooter Marriner :: :: Coyote Signs :: :: Oakland, CA :: :: still a beginner :: :: Posts: 1356 | From: Oakland (and San Francisco) | Registered: Mar 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
Scooter, try my blended thinner/reducer. No not Bourbon! Mix mineral spirits half and half with xylene. This is an old time trick of the trade. It makes the paint dry reasonably fast, brushes as smooth as Penetrol and is relatively cheap to make. This can be used for thinning 1-shot or any oil based enamel and is cheap enough to be used for brush wash also.
-------------------- Frisby Signs, Inc. El Dorado, Arkansas Posts: 902 | From: El Dorado, Arkansas, USA | Registered: Apr 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
Another thinner that's good to use in cold weather is naptha...it helps speed up the drying. For all around best thinning of 1-shot, I would have to go with pure gum spirits of turpentine. The paint seems to dry smoother and harder with it, at least in my experience. The old timers used it all the time, but it smelled alot, and so they came out with odorless mineral spirits and gradually everyone migrated away from turpentine. I still use it occasionally, because I think I actually LIKE the smell of real turps. People used to drink that stuff as a cold remedy...you can actually buy it in a drug store in a highly refined form. I think it makes a great mosquito repellant...and it clears your sinuses too!
-------------------- Jeff Ogden 8727 NE 68 Terr. Gainesville FL, 32609 Posts: 2138 | From: 8827 NE 68 Terr Gainesville Fl 32609 | Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
I've experimented with every thinner you can name and when it comes down to it there is nothing that works more consistantly than Mineral spirits for One Shot and coat out enamels...when it gets hot or I need a little extra working time I switch to Turpentine.
I also like cleaning my brushes with turps because it's oilier than spirits and In my opinion the brushes like it bettr.
If I really want to slow the paint up I will add linseed oil...
I never use lacquer thinner in enamels ...I don't buy the "more bite" theory...in my opinion it makes your enamels "brittle" and it will ruin a brush in no time,because the lacquer thinner maakes the paint deposits in your brushes fester and create a knot at the heal.
Everyone has their own theories...these are mine.
Werks fer me it'll werk fer you"
-------------------- "Werks fer me...it'll werk fer you"
I pretty much have used mineral spirits like Monte has mentioned, and can't agree more about how damaging laquer thinner can be to brushes. I threw a lot of brushes out over the years that had been left in laquer inadvertantly.
Standard procedure for me is a quick swish in laquer to take the bulk of the paint out and then a good dunking in mineral spirits, squeeze it out and a rinse in fresh spirits, and a little Old English Lemon Oil for storing them in.
My conditions and what I am used to, but I'm sure there will be a lot of good ideas that will work as well for you.
Wish I had all those brushes back... Rapid
-------------------- Ray Rheaume Rapidfire Design 543 Brushwood Road North Haverhill, NH 03774 rapidfiredesign@hotmail.com 603-787-6803
I like my paint shaken, not stirred. Posts: 5648 | From: North Haverhill, New Hampshire | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I have used thin-x for a long time, if I want to speed up the drying time I add Japan drier. resently I have been using mid temp acrylic urathane reducer from my auto body supplier, it evaporates super quick but is not as harsh as Laquer thinner, which I am assuming the only reason anyone would use it is because of the dry time. I wont recommend the urethane reducer yet, what I will though is Japan drier and thin-x
-------------------- Ken McTague, Concept Signs 57 Bridge St. (route 107) Salem MA 01970 1-978-745-5800 conceptsign@yahoo.com http://www.pinheadlounge.com/CaptainKen
---------------------------------
"A wise man once said that, or was it a wise guy?" Posts: 2425 | From: Salem, MA | Registered: Apr 1999
| IP: Logged |
I hate seeing the last colour I used, streaking into the new one I am applying..
I clean the brush with Lacquer to make sure all colours are out of the housing of the brush. Next dip in Minerial spirits followed by palleting with paint.
When I use lacquers in the mix it is drops of only for a quick flash of the Enamel.
Another stablizer I use and most people say this is a NO!NO! is oiling my brushes... I use (Slick 50) and the brushes are in perfect state and some are well over 20 years old.
They still have the spring back in the hairs. Not knowing any better, the jobs I have done in the past with Japan Dryers or Lacquer has not affected the sign in the least.
Mixing the paint to the right percentage is the trick. Too thin and Drip Drip Drip........ Too thick and Drag Drag Drag!
Many times when I use and need the brush to finish a job the next day is to hang it in a container cut half and half with Lacquer and Spirits Hand spinning it when needed.
-------------------- Stephen Deveau RavenGraphics Insinx Digital Displays
Letting Your Imagination Run Wild! Posts: 4327 | From: Lower Sackville, Nova Scotia, Canada | Registered: Jan 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
Raymond Chapman did an excellent article on thinners a number of years back in SC I believe, you might want to try to hunt it up. I prefer 6000 around here year round and yes, it WILL clabber on you before you use it all up. If I need to slow things down I add a little Penetrol, if I have to speed things up, some auto urethane reducer or 3812. OS high temp and low temp both work well but you have to watch out and not over do it with either of them. I agree with Monte on not thinning OS with laquer thinner, it makes the paint seem brittle to me too. I don't like thinning with mineral spirits , however. Actually, I don't like working around mineral spirits, I get a nasty reaction from it. I'ts also bad around here about "flashing".
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
posted
You're in SF which from my limited geography I understand can be a high temp and high humidity area. For a comparison daytime temps here vary between about 15c (59f) in winter to 35c (95f) and humidity that can range from 0-100% I'm also assuming thinning in the pot as opposed to thinning the whole tinful. In summer a dash of turps is great for about 15 minutes, after that its useless and if you go on thinning the pot you'll wind up with a watery mess that will maybe brush ok but will age very rapidly. In hot weather I like linseed oil, pale boiled by preference. Not much or it will take forever to dry and degrade the opacity and life expectancy. At an approximation using cooking terminology about .5 teaspoon linseed oil per .5 cup of colour. I keep a tin of terebine handy too, in colder months it can mean the difference between a good finish or dead kamikaze bugs trapped in the paint on a panel coated out at dusk. Brushing thinners is nice but for me I find it a bit like turps most of the year, flashes off too quickly. There are apparently a great deal more options available from the manufacturers and aftermarket suppliers but the methods above are simple and have served me well as a bonus I can easily carry them in a milk crate with my paints.
HTH, David
-------------------- David Fisher D.A. & P.M. Fisher Services Brisbane Australia da_pmf@yahoo.com Trying out a new tag: "Parents are the bones on which children cut their teeth Peter Ustinov Posts: 1450 | From: Brisbane Queensland Australia | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
brushes in SLICK 50???????? read the chemicals on the can, i think one is TEFLON.....and if you have ever tried to paint any vehicle that has had a teflon wax job.....you wont use that fro brush storage....get some 10W non detergent motor oil....safest and the best for storage....
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
i take brand new brushes.....put them in the 10W motor oil so it will put the oil in the heel of the brush and then i will clean in mineral spirits before i use them to paint with. now the only thing in the heel of brush is 10w oil, so a little comes out in the paint it wont hurt the paint. also no paint will stay in the heel. older brushes i will clean in laquer thinner....
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
I'm surprised that no one so far has mentioned Chromatic Brand Hi and lo temp reducers. They do not gel up like one shot's, and they are definately quicker and stronger than mineral spirits. They work with hardener fine as well.
When one shot purchased Chromatic, i was afraid that the reducers would get taken off the market. Frank at One shot assured me they will stay. Chromatic's reducers seem to offer many of the features that people mix their own forumlas for, and they do so with consistency and reliability. For my painting style and my climate, Chromatic Hi temp is the perfect reducer.
Bruce
-------------------- Bruce Deveau 331 Main St. Amesbury, Ma USA 01913 Posts: 139 | From: Amesbury, MA USA | Registered: Jul 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
Back in the mid eighties I was painting billboards on location for 3m Outdoor. We encountered just about any temperature and humidity factor you can imagine and at the same time some nasty completion schedules,that did not take into consideration the adverse conditions we had to work in. Steve Bergman (ownwer of Chromatic)published a tech sheet on thinners that showed the flash rates of each thinner at the time that was very helpful. It suggested the faster thinners having a faster evaporation rate for lower temps and the slower ones for higher temperatures.toulol and xylene were suggested for the colder temperatures (below 50 degrees F.)then naptha, with mineral spirits at the top of the list for normal temps. The rate of evaporation in the thinner should be relational to the temperature,thus the flash point will be different, in each chemical. The lower the flash point the faster the particular thinner will evaporate,thus allowing the paint film to dry.The faster the thinner eveaporates the less you will have to use proportionally to get the same effect in a slower evaporating thinner.So essentially as Dave Fisher put it,...it depends on your climate as to what thinner should be used to achieve the best results.
-------------------- fly low...timi/NC is, Tim Barrow Barrow Art Signs Winston-Salem,NC Posts: 2224 | From: Winston-Salem,NC,USA | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
I've written a couple of magazine articles over the years on the topic of "thinners and additives". If you have access to some old issues of SignCraft, one of them is in the March/April 1993 issue. A more recent article appears in the Sept. 2001 issue of Sign Builder Illustrated.
Scooter; I'll e-mail you with the article as a MS Word attachment.
-------------------- Jerry Mathel Retired Grants Pass, Oregon signs@grantspass.com Posts: 916 | From: Grants Pass, OR USA | Registered: Dec 1998
| IP: Logged |
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Cool]](cool.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic