posted
does white count? I do 1 color pairs for $100 so I'm at $25/sq.ft. 2 colors may not be more then an extra $10 if it's not like drop shadows & outlines, but just one or 2 lines of text in a seperate color. If I have a second color that is just a background color I usually charge at least $125. bothe those quotes are standard for me, but sometimes I will go $10 - $15 lower if I can tell I won't get the job otherwise, & I want to get it. Also for 2 or 3 pairs I offer reduced prices.
posted
Ryan, you need to check out the market in your area. I know that with your talent you do a great job, so charge a little more than your competition.
No way can I get $100.00 here for 2 colors. I'm not saying you are wrong Doug because I know that some of the others here can get that easily.
I do get from $90 to $100 for multi colored and cut out mags. But that is the only way. I don't like to do the plain 1 color rectangular ones so I tell them $50.00. 9 times out of 10 they go to another shop around here and get them for $40 per set. Some places sell them for $30. TOO CHEAP
-------------------- Kathy Joiner River Road Graphics 41628 River Road Ponchatoula, La.70454
Old enough to know better...Too young to resist. Posts: 1891 | From: Ponchatoula, LA | Registered: Nov 2000
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Yesterday's pair of 10" x 24" 2 color (White background, Black and Green text) went for $75.00.
-------------------- Jeff Vrstal Main Street Signs 157 E. Main Street Evansville, WI 53536 1-608-882-0322 Posts: 670 | From: Evansville, Wisconsin | Registered: Sep 2001
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Randy check your math, or are you using that fuzzy math from the late 80's ?
12x24 = 2sqft, but doug was saying he gets $100.00 for a pair of 12x24 thus that equals out to a pair of 2sqft magnets
Dont ask me, I havent had the misfortune of making any magnetics for profit YET, did make some that got me some decent paying work later on from the same customer.
-------------------- Harris Kohen K-Man Pinstriping and Graphix Trenton, NJ "Showing the world that even I can strategically place the pigment where its got to go." Posts: 1739 | From: Trenton, NJ, USA | Registered: Jun 2001
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Thanks That was what I was wondering. It is part of a larger job and I think I am Right in line. If it were a new customer or just a seperate order I would try for 100 to 120
-------------------- Ryan Young Indocil Art & Design indocil@comporium.net 803-980-6765
I highjacked Letterville!! Winter Muster 2004 Posts: 904 | From: Rock Hill, SC | Registered: Sep 2001
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We need to ask ourself a question here. How much do we get to letter two doors on a vehicle. Around here that starts at $150. Now the customer decides they want mags instead. Do we get the same price plus the cost and mark-up of the mag material. I believe we sell ourselves short when it comes to mags. I try not to sell them if at all possible. Mags should cost more than lettering two doors but far to often fall short of it. I have a friend who sold a pair for $250 and regularly get $150-$225. He is the one teaching me the theory of two doors vs. two mags. Just something to think about.
-------------------- Rob Larkham Sign Techniques Inc. Chicopee, Ma Posts: 607 | From: Chester, Ma. | Registered: Apr 2002
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I consistently talk customers out of Magnets. agree Rob but the problem I have is the public perception that mags are a cheap alt. When someone calls for mags I kind of put them in a category of a customer that doesn't have the budget or doesn't want to commit to their buisness. If I can talk them into a more professional look with Vinyl I will and I will put a little more into it.If they insist on mag I give a lower cost because I know they will probably call around for the lower price. It is alot easyer to price mags on the phone than a all out truck lettering job. I am always to high for this category of people. So sometimes I will try to get the mag job if I need some busy work for my helper.Hope you get the jist of what I am trying to say.
-------------------- Ryan Young Indocil Art & Design indocil@comporium.net 803-980-6765
I highjacked Letterville!! Winter Muster 2004 Posts: 904 | From: Rock Hill, SC | Registered: Sep 2001
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Our standard price is $125/pair(2color)- $90-100 if they get 3 or more pair. And we sell a lot of them- also try to discourage them- but some people insist. We get $175 for doors/ smaller version on tailgate.
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I sell them as singles $40. That gives me the chance to tell the customer a number that seems more affordable and then I suggest one for the back. I have sold alot of triples that way.
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We start at $85 for a set of magnetics and it goes up from there. We do enough to always keep it stocked by the roll. Good idea about the third one for the back or tailgate. Never really thought of that, but it makes sence.
-------------------- Glenn Thompson Tell-Tale Signs Williams Lake, BC sign@telus.net (250)398-7446 Posts: 201 | From: Williams Lake, BC | Registered: Dec 2000
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In my market half or more of the inquiries we get for vehicle lettering and graphics falls into the area of mags because most neighborhood associations now have covenants forbidding lettered vehicles. We also do a regular business selling blank mag sheet to cover over lettering on vehicles when they're parked at home.
We start at $65 a pair for one color, text only on white and go up to $125 to $150 for full color print. We average in around $85 to $90 a pair and would charge $80 for the 2 color example used here.
-------------------- Fred Weiss Allied Computer Graphics, Inc. 4620 Lake Worth Road Lake Worth, FL 33463 561 649-6300 allcompu@allcompu.com Posts: 427 | From: Lake Worth, Florida | Registered: Feb 2003
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$59.99 per set 12x24 one color on white, 8 words or less, corners rounded with a border, very basic. The guy down the street gives them away so we sell very few. I sell some as high as $100 but it's rare. Sold apair for $114 yesterday. Rare A roll of magnetic lasts me a couple of years.
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7404 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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When it is a "Magnets First", "Lettering Later" customer it is much easier to get better prices all around. Lots of times it's new guys with old trucks just starting out and planning to get the new one in the spring but need something now. Start off with the logo deal and move on. Gladly enough, they usually go for it, get the logo, and then the upscale magnets realizing they will go a long way if properly cared for and finally come back in the spring for the works.
Magnets can be kind of a tricky sell especially when the customer thinks they are a cheap alternative.
From a steady customer I was able to get $90 each x4 for 3 colored (8yr avery) mags,logo etc.. The third color was a metalic that covered the whole magnet to match the vehicle. Usually not a big deal when compared to the price of lettering a set of doors.
Considering the amount of work this one particular company has continued to send my way I've always given them a reasonable price that kept all parties happy. Until now...
I think he may have thought I was trying to pull one over on him and feels slighted this time around. Where in all honesty I thought he was getting a fair deal in relation to magnet prices in the area. He's thinking in relation to other jobs I've done where I was able to make money and still give him a fair shake. Plus my prices have gone up a bit over the last year or so to what they should/need to be (thanks Letterville). At the same time I don't want to lose reliable customers that have been profitable in the past.
This all goes back to the beginning where I should have stepped my prices up a bit from the get-go...rookie mistake. But in the meanwhile I'm still kind of tossed up on how to deal with this after the fact.
-------------------- Alan Ackerson LetterWorks Design and Graphics alan@ack2.com Posts: 776 | From: Oak Ridge, NJ | Registered: Aug 2002
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quote:...my prices have gone up a bit over the last year or so to what they should/need to be (thanks Letterville). At the same time I don't want to lose reliable customers that have been profitable in the past.
This all goes back to the beginning where I should have stepped my prices up a bit from the get-go...rookie mistake.
Just tell him what you told us 'cept swap in "loyal" where it says "profitable" :0 He will be glad all those better deals were your mistakes during the learning curve.
I'm always talking customers out of magnets, but with a different sales pitch...
I explain the maintenance and possible damages to the vehicle doors if they don't take care of them, that they could blow off on the highway, and are only temporary signs. Then I explain that if I'm gonna put the design on the magnets, it'll cost just as much as doing the doors since it involves the same amount of labor and materials anyway.
Usually works and a lot of times they will ask for some pinstriping or a name on the door, "while I'm at it", for which I bill them. Upselling is always moe betterer....
Besides, I hate to think that standard pricing a 2 color magnet with 28 letters and a phone number is the same as pricing one with the same two colors and 135 letters, for obvious reasons. I base the prices on the design, not the size of the magnet.
Rapid
-------------------- Ray Rheaume Rapidfire Design 543 Brushwood Road North Haverhill, NH 03774 rapidfiredesign@hotmail.com 603-787-6803
I like my paint shaken, not stirred. Posts: 5648 | From: North Haverhill, New Hampshire | Registered: Apr 2003
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My price; $75.00/pair, (1-color) for starters.
'The guy down the road sells 'em for $40.00/pair.' Arrrrg, keelhaul the bloody mate!
Thankfully, the thoughts here are in line with my own, in regard to magnetics. They are just as time consuming as any other sign I produce of the like. In comparison, applied to a vehicle (2-doors) starts at $150.00.
I am frustrated at the de-value placed on magnetics. Is it fair to compare, as I have indicated above? Maybe yes, maybe no. For me, YES, because 'time IS money', therefore equal time and product deserves equal pay. What will the market bare?
Ryan, makes a good point;
quote:it's public perception that mags are a cheap alt.
It's obvious I have fallen into the grips of public perception, as I charge half as much to produce the same amount of stickie and I throw in the magnetic, to boot!
Slide me the bloody grog matey! Me noggin' needs a rest!
Cher.
-------------------- Co-Host: SANDCASTLE Panel Jam 'a Dixie Letterhead Reunion' Fort Myers, Florida
Cheryl Lucas a/k/a "Shag" on mIRC Vital Signs & Graphics, Etc. Cape Coral, Florida 239-574-4713 VSignsNgraphics@aol.com Posts: 987 | From: Cape Coral, FL USA | Registered: Aug 2000
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Magnetics have always been a paint to deal with, the public has always looked at the as "cheap". How many remember those lovely raised letter magnetics that were produced in the seventies? I thin sheet of plastic, vacuum formed over some raised letters arranged with no thought to layout. Red and black layed on with a brayer, a strip of magnetic around the perimiter. The first time a car door banged into one in the winter there was a hole, destined to blow off . These were done in cottage industry fashion by non sign people. It took a long time to get the public over that crap. I was getting $150 a pair for magnetics in 82. A few years later the plotters came along and all of a sudden magnetics are going for $35...WTF???? Like a fool, I got suckered into lowering my prices. After repeatedly kicking myself in the ass, I just quit doing them altogether. Life is better without a bitter taste in your mouth
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
posted
I totally agree with Rob Larkham on this. I've never sold a set of mags for less than I'd get to letter the door. I give the client a handout on how to take care of their mags and pitch the convenience of interchanging the mags to a second vehicle. I also pitch the value of not having to deal with paint removal when it's time to trade in.
-------------------- Terry Baird Baird Signs 3484 West Lake Rd. Canandaigua, NY 14424 Posts: 790 | From: Canandaigua, New York | Registered: Dec 2002
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Doug, Good call, just being up front will be best.
Stephan, I understand what you are saying about the vinyl and mag. But the truth is a lot of my customers come to me because someone else has used something cheaper and their vinyl is either cracked, faded or just looks plain old wore out after a few years. They get POed. Plus for the amount of magnets and so called temp signs I do there is a greater chance that my extra profit will waste away on the shelf with the rest of the roll.
Keeping closer tabs on these things will help me get to the 100,000 G mark faster, and I appreciate what you are saying.
But for now I am trying to build a name of quality in produt/design/service where others have failed due to cheaper materials. Also helps get the prices up. I've found most of my customers never even question this when I tell them I am using the best materials available. People love to hang on to that temp sign much longer than they admit. I figure a little sacrafice now will benefit long term. So far I have had zero complaints about material failures using Avery high test. Maybe it's just what I feel comfortable with, it's a small town and there is little room for getting bad mouthed.
People may disagree but a few sacrafices now can go a long way later. Hope this makes sense to others as I know there is still a lot to learn.
But loving every minute of it! Thanks for the replies.
-------------------- Alan Ackerson LetterWorks Design and Graphics alan@ack2.com Posts: 776 | From: Oak Ridge, NJ | Registered: Aug 2002
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Maybe I need to move to Scooter's area! that's fine salesmanship, good job! It must be his "magnetic" personality,lol!
Magnets do fluctuate in price for various reasons, obviously, as stated in this post. I have been known to do them at no less than $50 a set, but have gotten up to $110 for lettering with more than one color that includes logo. I try to keep it middle of the road, but, if the customer is really "thrifty", (hmmm) and I want the business, I will go low, and depending on the time frame they give me. Bartering comes in handy here too. I usually end up on the high end, but that's another post.
If I can't seem to arrive at my price, I use three main persuasions, with my interested customers. 1.) offer an additional feature with a logo or handpainting they can't get from the sticky quicky shop. 2.) developing a custom service with the magnetic, offering special instructions for care and cleaning, then have it printed to give to them upon completion. I try to also make a third one to keep on hand in case they get one stolen or damaged, and tell them that you will sell it at that time for a deep discount price. If they never purchase it, at least you can have it for display purposes. (and it didn't require an additional set up since you did it at the same time as the original. 3.) Present a package, maybe adding a bit of lettering on the window (something small, maybe a logo or their phone no. in addition). That way the public will see their business from the back also. A small strip back magnetic comes to mind too!) Offer to check with them in 6 months as a courtesy call and then follow up!
-------------------- Deb Fowler
"It's kind of fun to do the impossible - Walt Disney (1901-1966) Posts: 5373 | From: Loves Park, Illinois | Registered: Aug 1999
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Hey Ryan- I have been charging $79.95/set of 2 12"x24" since 1991, up to 2 colors. I can never figure out why they're cheaper than vehicle lettering, cuz ya gotta buy the magnet, etc. But that's what I get, usually no questions asked. Custom shapes are $100/set. If the person does quibble, I tell them mags are $39.95 @ Kinko's, but they look like crap. These are the bread & butter of my career, right up there with the dreaded coroplast job site signs. ($25 w/ stake, 18"x24") love- JILL
-------------------- That is like a Mr. Potato Head with all the pieces in the wrong place. -Russ McMullin Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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wayne and i are about the same...i quote a set of 12"x 24" mags at $60, tell em that their are cheaper ones out there, but i dont switch and bait and add more money for colors,or simple graphic. i will do them in any color, 1 or 2 color no art work for $60. and i give them my 5/50 WARRENTY next...which i tell them all mags are gar-ron-teed for 5 MINUTES OR 50 MILES PER HOURS which ever comes 1st!!!! i have never done a free replacement!!!!!
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Whatever it would cost for lettering the doors...(depending on complexity of artwork, whether or not they provided you with a usable electronic format, etc...)PLUS the cost of magnetic material, (x1.75% is our standard materials markup).
With prices starting at $250...it's no wonder we don't sell many sets!!!
Awwwwww That's the way, uh-huh, uh-huh I like it, uh-huh, uh-huh.
Keep on keepin' on
Brian Briskie
Posts: 465 | From: / | Registered: Jan 2000
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This has been a very useful post all around.
I received an e-mail over the weekend saying in a friendly way how I am contradicting myself here. Talking about trying to develope friendly customer service and at the same time trying to force feed an occasional customer with something above their real needs. That is not customer friendly. Wallet friendly yes, but the backlash could be hurtful down the road.
I hear what Brian is singin' lol, but trying to make the max money now and getting them to come back later is a fine line that is still being drawn. More power to you Brother!
Also I got a good edumacation on life span of materials vs. cost from a friend who lives near by. Thanks Raven and Rapid for flickin' the switch on and forcing me to ask some questions to myself and others with more experience. This will be very helpful.
Ryan, this isn't meant to hijack your post but it just came up that magnets were a spark to some bigger questions that needed answering. Thank you all. See magnets are good...haha jk
But anyway... 16 days till the puck drops!!!
-------------------- Alan Ackerson LetterWorks Design and Graphics alan@ack2.com Posts: 776 | From: Oak Ridge, NJ | Registered: Aug 2002
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Pricing mags lower than lettering a set of car doors directly just makes no sense what-so-ever. Period!
The reasoning many have is that mags are percieved by the general public as "cheap". Where do you suppose they get this perception? Aren't we perpetuating it by giving in to it? Isn't it time to dispell the myth, and start talking to, and training our customer's to think differently? To think reasonably?
I have found that most folks are reasonable people with common sense. They would be able to understand that to letter something on a mag would be no different than lettering directly on a vehicle. Thus should command a similar cost for the same effort.
It just takes alittle time invested on our parts to politely explain this, along with conveying to them the differences between our work and kinkos!
I've made up my mind long ago, that a customer I cannot reason with is one I need to forego, ... for my own best interest. But not without some attempts to educate them first. Taking that time IS in OUR best interest as a trade. You'd be surprised how many times customers "get it" AFTER they've left my portfolio and gone elsewhere to find what a cheaper price gets them instead. My words may just ring in their heads later, and I may just see them next time around.
The effort to cultivate good, reasonable clientele is a good investment. Nettie
-------------------- "When Love and Skill Work Together ... Expect a Masterpiece"
posted
I've seen the places where they typpe in the letters and send them to the cutter and stick the calendered stuff on and it's out the door.Less than half an hour. Done by kids without design skills and the pride they take in the appearance of their work is not in how well it represents the business as the vehicle moves through the community. Those might be worth $75 a set.
Why not approach it a bit differently. I want to spend some time speaking with the customer. I want to test the vehicle with a magnet to make sure there isn't bondo that will cause dissappointment later. I want to get colors that work on the vehicle and put some design time into it and give tham something that shows some thought.
I want to sell them for $75 for the signs and $100 for the concept. I don't explain it to the customer that way, but I want to provide enough service and skill to make sure they get their moneys worth and can see clearly that what they got is far better than the ones from Kinko's. I don't want to get into a price war, I want to get into a quality challenge.
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6734 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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quote:Originally posted by Janette Balogh: Pricing mags lower than lettering a set of car doors directly just makes no sense what-so-ever. Period!
The reasoning many have is that mags are percieved by the general public as "cheap". Where do you suppose they get this perception? Aren't we perpetuating it by giving in to it? Isn't it time to dispell the myth, and start talking to, and training our customer's to think differently? To think reasonably?
It just takes alittle time invested on our parts to politely explain this, along with conveying to them the differences between our work and kinkos!
The effort to cultivate good, reasonable clientele is a good investment. Nettie
Well said but WRONG!!!!! HAHA You are correct if they are a reasonable customer I have already talked them out of a set of cheap looking mags. Only after talking with the customer for a good time will I decide there is no way this cheap ass understands what I do. I then as a last resort will charge as much as I can with this customer, so the low buck shop doesnt get it. I still make good money for the effort and I would never give it away. I hate mags and all of my regulars know that.
-------------------- Ryan Young Indocil Art & Design indocil@comporium.net 803-980-6765
I highjacked Letterville!! Winter Muster 2004 Posts: 904 | From: Rock Hill, SC | Registered: Sep 2001
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I think that magnetics just simply have a cheap implication to them. That's why one would expect to pay less for them. Most customers probably aren't expecting a work of art when it comes to a magnet. Now when they are getting "permanent" lettering, then they are expecting a work of art and in turn a higher price because you will indeed need to take more time on design.
Remember.....it is only a magnetic! cut em...stick em on. Take their money and be done with it.
-------------------- Bruce Evans Crown Graphics Chino, CA graphics@westcoach.net Posts: 913 | From: Chino, CA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I don't understand why you would sell those magnets $80 a pair when the same customer invest $80 EACH MONTH in the yellow page. After 3 years of driving his vehicule around town with those magnets, at least hundred thousands of people will have seen his advertising for 80$!! beside that, in the same 3 years probably only a few hundreds will look at the yellow page for his service for $80 A MONTH, means $2880 for 3 years!!!
You guys are selling wrong! By comparing our ADVERTISING product (such as magnetic signs are!) it is a lot easier to sell our stuff at a higher price. I am not doing magnetics but I am sure I could sell those for $400 a pair. And I firmly believe the customer gets a good value for those, It is still $2400 cheaper than the yellow pages and way cheaper that the radio and newspaper ads.
Sell differently by comparing our sign product with every other advertising on the market, and the customer will realize that sign are still a real bargain, even if you raise your price 400%. And you will enjoy your work better because IT WILL BE PROFITABLE.
Remember that the customer will always make more money with his sign than you will made doing it!
-------------------- Pierre Tardif P. Tardif Inc. 1006 boul. PIE-XI sud Val-Belair QC. Canada G3K 1L2 418-847-4089 pierre@ptardif.com Posts: 800 | From: Quebec city | Registered: Aug 2002
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I frequently pull the color number off a vehicle and go to the auto paint store and purchase a quart and add something to keep it flexible and paint the mags to match the vehicle so they don't look stuck on as obviously. I've done gold leaf on them. I've made several attempts to alter the image of "cheap."
Also, many times when someone wants to have anonamous as an option, I've sold them lettering on the truck and a blank magnetic patch to cover it. If the mag blew off, it is cheap and easy to replace the blank cover.
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6734 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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i do the same rick, but you can use those spray cans of duplicolor paint if its a newer model. the repo man likes these, so when he grabs a car he can take them off. and they usually want their lettering just a shade lighter then the truck color.....so it makes it hard to read.
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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