"Over the last few years, the quality of calendered vinyl materials has improved, although price levels have not increased. With the reduction in the quality gap between such materials and higher performance cast vinyl materials, demand for cast vinyls may not return to prior levels.
Would you agree with this statement?
Have you noticed improvements to calendered vinyls?
Do you tend to buy more calendered vs cast these days?
... points to ponder ...
-------------------- Mike O'Neill
It has yet to be proven that intelligence has any survival value. - Arthur C. Clarke
posted
I do use it more but still not on long term signage or vehicles. (Well there has been one or two questionable vehicles). The manufacturer's claims are getting better all the time. Things like 6 year life, conforming to irregular surfaces and such.
I wouldn't want to risk it on a high dollar job. Of course if it is a high priced job, why skimp? In the end though, I see it being used in my shop more and more.
-------------------- Wright Signs Wyandotte, Michigan Posts: 2787 | From: Wyandotte, MI USA | Registered: Jan 1999
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posted
So there is at least one other person that reads 10-K filings. Some great gems of info to be had in some of those reports.
-------------------- Bob Gilliland InKnowVative Communications Harrisburg PA, USA
"The U.S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself." Benjamin Franklin Posts: 642 | From: Harrisburg, PA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Mike...There was a time when I NEVER used calendered vinyl. This was because i had made quite a bit of money replacing existing 3 mil jobs on vehicles that had lasted a couple of years and then started to lift, curl, and split at inside corners.
These days, however, I am using more and more of it. Avery claims 6 years for it's 3 mil opaques. I find that I am doing more banner jobs than previously and more short term (read 2-3 year) construction site signs.
When bidding jobs that I know will need to be kept as low, in price, as possible I will quote based on 3 mil but will inform the client that this IS only 6 year material and not 9 year material. Funnily enough, most people don't even concern themselves about the difference in longevity. I guess, to them, 6 years is an eternity!
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
posted
I have been using more and more calendared films lately, but not because of the longevity claims by the manufacturers.
I've been giving customers the choice.. cheap material, lower price.. or good material, higher price. Incidentally, I've been using my old pricing structure (which was based on only using HP films) to price my work using calendared films now - I think in many cases I have been selling myself short in the past. Now HP films command an even higher price.
I tell the customer flat out, the cheap material is rated for 6 years but in all honesty they'll be lucky to get 2 or 3 years out of it, and it will shrink quite a bit. They still go for it.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
I use quite a bit of Oracals 651 for different types of signage, but still use 851 for the better jobs. If the quality of the calendered keeps going up, Ill use it alot more. Except on rivets.
-------------------- Maker of fine signs and other creative stuff. Located at 109 N. Cumberland ave. Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-837-0242 Posts: 4172 | From: Ages-Brookside, Ky. Up the Holler... | Registered: Jul 1999
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posted
I've had the same experience as Mike. I explain the difference to the customer and 90% plus of the time they will opt for the lower priced vinyl.
I pass along only the difference in my cost since everything else is the same ..... about 60¢ a square foot ..... and most still go for it.
-------------------- Fred Weiss Allied Computer Graphics, Inc. 4620 Lake Worth Road Lake Worth, FL 33463 561 649-6300 allcompu@allcompu.com Posts: 427 | From: Lake Worth, Florida | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
This is something I observed long before Oracal brought on the new cast 851 line. 651 was absolutely the intermediate film that drove that change.
651 performed so much better than every other intermediate, the industry was forced to improve their product which narrowed the margin of performance with cast.
Now Avery and Oracal are jostling for the top intermediate spot, pushing the limits...
Also, I think the market for short and medium term signage has grown significantly (what do you guys in the field think?). But for those jobs that require the absolute longest life and best conformability, cast is still in a distinct category (though Oracal's 751 is pushing that as well).
I'm not with them anymore, but these were my observations, which I still think are true.
-------------------- Kenneth Sandlin Author of "Wide Format Printing: An Introduction and Buyer's Guide" PO Box 1295 St. Augustine, FL 32085 kennethsandlin@msn.com http://wfprinting.tripod.com Posts: 116 | From: Jacksonville, FL | Registered: May 2002
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posted
We used to be a "cast only" shop, but I've become a lot more comfortable using calendared vinyl when it makes sense for the job. We've been doing a lot of 10mm Corex jobs (roadside signs) and using calendared for those to keep the costs in line. I've had no problem with a vinyl failure.
We did a sign several years ago using calendared vinyl by accident. I decided to put it up anyway with the intention of redoing it when and if the vinyl showed signs of failure. It still looks just as good as the ones done with cast vinyl.
I agree with what the others say about offering a difference. That's essentially what we do when we explain the difference between corex/calendared and dibond/cast. We tell them the pros & cons of each, which we recommend for them and why, and they make the ultimate decision.
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
Some great gems of info to be had in some of those reports.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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