posted
I have always used Jay Cooks primer. I like it and have had no problems with adhesion, but sometimes I would need to sand a piece and really didn't care for the way it sanded, but it was a small job so I just went on with it. Now I have a job that requires a smooth as possible surface (HDU demensional letters)and I'm not liking Jay much right now! It just doesn't "get dusty" or feel like it's dry. Wants to clog up any grit paper and rolls up upon sanding when I would prefer dust........(if you know what I mean) I don't think I want to try thinning it since it shouldn't have to be, thinned or modified.
So, if you please, what is the best HIGH BUILD sanding primer out there so I can get a good, smooth surface.
-------------------- Chuck Gallagher Pro Graphics Signs by Design Cabool, MO 417.962.3291 "I grew up in Letterville" Posts: 776 | From: Cabool, Mo. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
Hiya Chuck, from what you're describing, the paint isn't dry yet. I've used Coastal's water based and oil based primers with no problems. I liked the water based better because of the easy clean up. I've never used Jay Cook's stuff so I can't compare.
Havin' fun,
Checkers
-------------------- a.k.a. Brian Born www.CheckersCustom.com Harrisburg, Pa Work Smart, Play Hard Posts: 3775 | From: Harrisburg, Pa. U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
Auto paint stores will have primer surfacers that are high build lacquer based primers. They are mixed approximately 1:1 with lacquer thinner, they flash off very fast, fill pinholes and are designed for being sanded smooth.
-------------------- David Harding A Sign of Excellence Carrollton, TX Posts: 5092 | From: Carrollton, TX, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
That's the problem, it is dry unless it takes a week to dry and I don't think so! Anyway, thanks for the reply and next time I think I'll try the pb240 I think it is from Costal!
Thanks David, but I'd like to stay with a waterbase for the quick dry time unless I'm missing something with the oils and other bases.
See ya,
-------------------- Chuck Gallagher Pro Graphics Signs by Design Cabool, MO 417.962.3291 "I grew up in Letterville" Posts: 776 | From: Cabool, Mo. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
If you want a good primer, an automotive urethane primer is the way to go.
Polyester primer/surfacer is good too, I use a lot of it on fiberglass work.. Evercoat's Finish Sand costs around $20/quart and is easy to work with.. sands real easily, doesn't clog up sandpaper.
You can get these materials at your local autobody/paint supply.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
| IP: Logged |
I've had good luck with really thinned down FSC-88WB from Coastal. We spray it on bigger stuff around three nice coats and it's slick as a babies butt!
If you roll, don't use foam rollers it sucks it up to much.
I would like to try to automotive stuff but in the residential area I don't have anywhere to spray.
-------------------- Amy Brown Life Skills 101 Private Address Posts: 3502 | From: Lake Helen, FL, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
I'm kind of limited really on what I can do. Meaning I can't spray much. Airbrush only really, so I have to roll, brush and sand!
Can you apply the automotive urethans without spraying?
Thanks for the help!
-------------------- Chuck Gallagher Pro Graphics Signs by Design Cabool, MO 417.962.3291 "I grew up in Letterville" Posts: 776 | From: Cabool, Mo. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
Chuck and Amy,yes,you can apply any of the catalyzed urethane primers without spraying,in fact rolling them on has become one of the recommended application methods. The white torpedo looking foam rollers are your best bet for doing it and thats what we sell with the primer...the yellow and black foam rollers dont hold up well with the urethane reducer and tend to split at the seam and/or pull away from the core. It lays down very smooth,gives you a nice uniform film build,a pretty even drying time and it will cover/fill small blemishes very well and leaves very little mess. The only key or "trick" to using it is that you have to have the mixing ratio right on the catalyst or its not going to cure,you may have to add more reducer(small amt) to get it to roll smoother and flow out in a hotter more humid climate like Amy's but thats just something you have to play with on a test piece b4 you get started b/c its going to vary from place to place. The primer David mentioned people still like to call lacquer,now its really an acrylic polyester and since its not a catalyzed product it tends not take to roll on applications real well at all,its designed to be sprayed and have a topcoat sprayed on top,rolling a solvent based color on top of it can easily put 70-75% more material on top of it than it was designed to provide holdout for......since it has a higher solid content it will build/fill faster but not being catalyzed you run the risk of heavier coated areas not drying,skinning over and being wet underneath,trapping solvent,and some of the cheaper brands will sink back on themselves unevenly and even though it looks like/feels like it sanded smooth you may not notice its not until you roll on that nice dark green or maroon backround. The cheaper ones like that are also more porous,so if you prime with it and arent in a climate controlled shop, and it takes you 2,3,4 days to finish working on the panel you can have problems with humidity or big temp fluctuations affecting the strength or integrity of the primer,it also likes to absorb fumes/vapors of stuff around the shop and unfortunately you wont find any of that out until its too late and 90% of the backround is painted or even later than that down the road...just $.11 cents tossed into the mix.
-------------------- Gavin Chachere Plotter in the garage,New Orleans La.
"Sgts Shugart and Gordon again request permission to rope down to crash site two" Posts: 1223 | From: new orleans.la. | Registered: Mar 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
Hi Chuck - we have very humid summers here on coastal Cape Cod. I've had the same problems you describe with both Jay Cooke and Coastal, and reverted back to old-school "Kilz" type oil primers, resisting the temptation to put them on too thick. Simple but predictable.
I've tried the catalized primers and liked the concept but didn't like having to load up a spray gun every time I needed a spot of primer. This brushable product Gavin is talking about has my interest. Got a brand name Gavin? Any further details appreciated.
SONGPAINTER Original Sign Music by Sign People NOW AVAILABLE on CD and the proceeds go to Letterville's favorite charity! Click Here for Sound Clips! Posts: 1974 | From: Orleans, MA, Cape Cod, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
Joe the ones i'm talking about are the ones everyone calls "euro" or "uro" and are light tan/yellowish in color,a couple of companies have out one in a mauve looking color and a couple of shades of gray are available. Almost any brand will work,for a couple of reasons the most impt being not putting you in the poorhouse b/c they sponsor racecars,U-POL and Evercoat(fiberglass evercoat) are about 2 of the best despite of what they may tell you in a store,alotta times theyre limited on what they can sell by agreement. Outside of that,you do want to stay away from anything that says Western,Omni,Nason or Limco on the label...you'll pay the same thing for those as you will for evercoat or upol and the diff in quality is in no way worth it. Theres nothing wrong with buying PPG's,Duponts,Sikkens etc you're just gonna pay way more for the privelege of having their name on the label,and unless thats all you can find where you are try to find one of the other 2.
-------------------- Gavin Chachere Plotter in the garage,New Orleans La.
"Sgts Shugart and Gordon again request permission to rope down to crash site two" Posts: 1223 | From: new orleans.la. | Registered: Mar 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
Posting again b/c the original question was about priming HDU...someone is bound to ask if it will work over wood..yes it will,but its not going to expand/contract with the wood like some of the waterbased acrylic stuff will.
-------------------- Gavin Chachere Plotter in the garage,New Orleans La.
"Sgts Shugart and Gordon again request permission to rope down to crash site two" Posts: 1223 | From: new orleans.la. | Registered: Mar 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
I'm sold on FSC88 oil base. Brushing it on is kind of the pits but I spray 3 coats and it works great. Takes about 30 min. between coats, then the last (fourth) coat, I spray straight mineral spirits and let it sit for 24 hours. It really smooths out. Can do the same with a brush.
-------------------- Tom & Kathy Durham House Springs, MO Posts: 654 | From: House Springs, MO | Registered: Apr 1999
| IP: Logged |
I appreciate the thoroughness of your reply and also the follow up about wood and the flexibility of the uro primers.
Will those uro primers take a flex agent? I have used automotive acrylic enamels with a flex agent on wood for years. It has held up better than any sign paint, however, the acrylic enamels are pretty much obsolete and getting harder to come by. Now that we're in the 21st century, I may have to finally join the 20th.
-------------------- David Harding A Sign of Excellence Carrollton, TX Posts: 5092 | From: Carrollton, TX, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
We have using Chromatic 1010 High Build water based primer for years with excellent results.
We roll and brush on 3 good coats of primer and let dry overnight. Wet sand with 220 grit paper... turns out as smoooooooooooth as glass.
-------------------- Bruce Bowers
DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter Posts: 6451 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
Gavin, thanks for the input. Sounds like the brush and roll application is mostly a technique issue then (as so many things are). I actually still have some on the shelf I will break it out and do some tests.
SONGPAINTER Original Sign Music by Sign People NOW AVAILABLE on CD and the proceeds go to Letterville's favorite charity! Click Here for Sound Clips! Posts: 1974 | From: Orleans, MA, Cape Cod, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
David most flex additives are universal,so ya in theory you can add it to the primer....how its gonna work in this case i would be lying if i told you i knew....the only real issue in a simplified explanation is that to enable the paint to give,you take a little bit of end strength away,generally not a prob with a catalyzed topcoat but weakening the primer isnt always a good thing ....plus i dont have a clue as to how much one certain type of wood is gonna expand/contract over another etc. You're not gonna know for certain unless you try it....best bet would be to prep up like a 12"x12" piece of whatever wood you use the most,use the diff primer and paint it with what ever you normally would,than spend a couple of weeks alternating between leaving it sit in the direct sun then sticking it in the freezer,then back outside imeediately,hose it down,leave it out overnite in the dew or for a couple of days at a time then sit it around the shop etc..not a 100% accurate test but you will get an idea after three weeks or so of hard abuse if something will start to turn up somewhere. Don't feel like you're using an outdated product by using acrylic enamel....catalyzed acrylic enamel isn't a whole lot diff than catalyzed acrylic urethane in terms of usingit on a sign...for a vehicle yah,diff gloss etc, but even some of the urethanes labeled POLY only have enough % poly component so they can use the words on a label. If you're having sucess using A/E like that you have no reason to want to stop.
-------------------- Gavin Chachere Plotter in the garage,New Orleans La.
"Sgts Shugart and Gordon again request permission to rope down to crash site two" Posts: 1223 | From: new orleans.la. | Registered: Mar 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
I just heard back from a friend in tech service..UPOL 20:20 urethane primer has a flexible component in it...whether or not its a better choice than using anything else out there i dunno,but i guess trying it out surely couldnt hurt.
-------------------- Gavin Chachere Plotter in the garage,New Orleans La.
"Sgts Shugart and Gordon again request permission to rope down to crash site two" Posts: 1223 | From: new orleans.la. | Registered: Mar 2000
| IP: Logged |
Printer-friendly view of this topic