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Recenty I have come to the conclusion that my 5 hours a day of driving to work is finally getting to me. As some of you know I work at a great place, but is 100 miles away. I love my job, the work I do, my co-workers, my boss and the clients, I can't afford to move closer (Rent near work is 1200-2500, I pay 500 a month house payment) I recenty posted on Signweb about looking for a job in the area. Did 4 interviews, and pretty much got the same response, love the work, past a test one guy gave me with flying colors, I have a lot of knowledge on different aspects of the business, but over-qualified (probably meaning they don't pay well or can't use all my skills)They know I'm taking a big step down, and I'm willing to do it, because I would rather have a life than be stuck in the car all day. I worked hard at getting where I am at, and now realizing that I over did it does not make sense. If a sign shop is happy cranking out the same stuff is fine with me, but as a worker I really good at what I do, probably too good, but why should that disqualify me. I know I should open my own shop, and I want to, but I also know that I have limits, I have no talent when it comes to business, I can make someone a lot of money, but I think I lack the talent for owning my own shop. Have any of you had that problem? I also think I know more than them, is that to intimadating? Before anyone comments on my qualifications, I am 41 and at the top of my game, worked at 7 different shops/design firms, from grunt to senior designer, and everything inbetween. I have done small banners to major theme park signage in different part of the globe. I don't know it all, and not a master at anything except maybe production. There is work out here but why can't I get a job!!!!!
Rick
-------------------- Rick Chavez Hemet, CA Posts: 1540 | From: Hemet,CA U.S.A. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Rick I can relate. One reason I'm still in business today. Many times I thought how nice it would be to work for someone else without the head aches and stress of running your own business. But after thirty years and the amount of knoweledge I have gained, I doubt few companies could or would pay me what I'm worth. Double edge sword so to speak.
I've even thought of changing careers on different occasions but doing what I do is deep in my blood. Its also easy because I have been at it a long time so maybe thats why I stay in it.
Seems to me your only option is to move somewhere else, anywhere else as long as you can do what you want to do and also make enough to afford whatever it is you need to live and be happy.
I dont have an answer or solution here. Im just rambling a bit. I feel your frustration however.
-------------------- Bob Stephens Skywatch Signs Zephyrhills, FL
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Rick, if you are interviewing at one day storefront enterprises then you are overqualified. The payscale is generally pretty low. Even if you got the job you would be bored with it quicker than you think.
You might poke around your area to see if there is an established one man shop where the owner is getting older and beginning to think about retirement. You might be able to cut a deal where you can make a living wage and at the same time see small business up close and personal. If you like it, and the owner likes you, you might be able to buy him out.
Good luck to you in your search. Vic G
-------------------- Victor Georgiou Danville, CA , USA Posts: 1746 | From: Danville, CA , USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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What do you like to do better? Design work, production work, engineered drawings?
I've seen your stuff. I think you could start a business right from your home as a consultant. I have always kept your name in the back of my mind if the need for drawings of your caliber arised. I wish I had your talent in that area. I believe I could get bigger better paying jobs with real companies rather than the cheapskates we deal with almost daily!
Go for it. I still don't have very good business skills and I'm a terrible bookkeeper & accountant. Just make customers happy and charge what you're worth. I think you'd do great!
-------------------- Amy Brown Life Skills 101 Private Address Posts: 3502 | From: Lake Helen, FL, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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We are all proud people here and know our worth! Times are tough. I like to become a Security Guard! I could Doodle all Night........ Or Stop the Fires!! or Riots!!!!!!!!!!!
-------------------- Stephen Deveau RavenGraphics Insinx Digital Displays
Letting Your Imagination Run Wild! Posts: 4327 | From: Lower Sackville, Nova Scotia, Canada | Registered: Jan 2000
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My friends think I should go on my own as well, I have already made a business plan of sorts, have all the programs, computers, subs, a contractor license, plotters and tools to start, but need the time to get started slowly. Thanks for your feedback, encouragement and comments.
Bob, thanks, it helps to know that I'm not alone.
Glen, I just picked up my local college that I just got in the mail and they had classes on small business, I'm gonna sign up monday.
Victor, one of the guys that interviewed me suggested that, but only offered 12 bucks an hour, I get more than twice that now, and in California, that is barely enough to make ends meet. I should look into that some more, great suggestion.
Amy, thanks for your comments, bookeeping is not my strong point, and I suck at misc office work. It helps to know I'm not the only one.
Stephan, just out of curiosity, what does that mean? That went over my head a little bit.
Rick
-------------------- Rick Chavez Hemet, CA Posts: 1540 | From: Hemet,CA U.S.A. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Rick, Like you, I'm 41 and have a wide range of experience. You have the sign production skills whereas I have the business skills (I've owned five businesses), but it works out the same.
Here are my thoughts: 1. Maybe you could partner with somebody - one of the small shops that wants to expand into high end work. They can't afford to pay you a salary, but they might be able to take you on as a partner, or as a dedicated subcontractor. Or maybe you can be the "specialty subcontractor" to a bunch of shops. You'd be a regional specialist and provide your skills to a number of places.
2. Maybe you can cut back at the place you're currently working, and only do 3 days a week there, while you develop your own shop, more slowly. Or, maybe you can work from home 2 or 3 days a week (design work, for instance, that requires computer time rather than fabrication). Or perhaps you could be a subcontractor to your existing employer and produce stuff in Hemet and ship it to them. I'd think they should want your skills enough to work with you in coming up with a way for you to continue the business relationship but reduce the commute.
3. Find a business parter -- somebody who like that part of the biz but isn't a sign maker. Go into business together.
4. Start your own shop. The "skills" needed to own a business aren't that many. You can buy a lot of them (ie, hire a book keeper and an accountant). You probably know most of what you need to know already (but taking a few small business classes is a good idea). What you REALLY need is a desire to have customers. If you'd rather be left alone so you can make pretty signs then you should NOT have your own business. If you love the time you spend with CUSTOMERS then your business will succeed.
I don't know what your other bills are, but with a $500 house payment, you don't have too much overhead (if you're working from home).
-------------------- :: Scooter Marriner :: :: Coyote Signs :: :: Oakland, CA :: :: still a beginner :: :: Posts: 1356 | From: Oakland (and San Francisco) | Registered: Mar 2001
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I have just recently quit my job.. I was driving about 2.5 hours a day, working a lot and missing my kids growing up. I hated the drive through Toronto everyday as well. I moved back to the rural area where I grew up. My living expenses are about 1/3 of what they were. I was working at a sign shop doing hand-painted pub signs, bar mirrors, acid etching, sandblasting, gilding, etc... It was nice work, but the pro's and con's were weighing out poorly. I have a job making furniture now.. It is great!! I am home by 4pm, time for my family, time to do something fun. I am taking a break from the sign biz for a while. I used to have my own business here, but closed it to move to the city for the "cool job". Not so cool..
I may start again as I still have all my software, plotter etc also, but I will start slowly and let my furniture job pay the bills for now. Maybe you could get a job doing something else, like a production manager, in a business close to home and start your business on the side. You will learn the ins and outs of the business end on a small scale without risking it all going full time on your own.
What do you do when you have more experience doing more different things than a sign guy, a carpenter, and a graphic designer put together, you hate working for someone & are a terrible employee, you've always wanted your own business but you hate people & can't balance your own check book?
Starve?
Become a musician?
Well, there's not much choice but to start a shop, hire an accountant & somebody who likes people & start making some damn MONEY!
-------------------- Glenn S. Harris
....back in the sign trade full time. Posts: 293 | From: Baton Rouge, LA, USA | Registered: Jul 2001
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tough call.....but i was 42 when i made the decision to do what i do and enjoy!!! i had "jobs" but never worked for any sign shops. either i didnt know enough or they wanted to pay me less then i was makin at other jobs. been paintin signs sincew i was 10-11 yrs old...well was introduced to the art.....and over the years i had done stcok cars, small signs etc....mostly for cheap. i hit 42 and i walked into a flea market one day, and i was selling APPOLO LIGHT BULBS!!! you know them lifetime floresents...for $14 each!!!! hahahahah. i was on strickly commission, no wage. what a joke. i sold $60 worth of bulbs and spent $80 in gas in the car!!! back to the flea market....there was this guy did a/b license plates, mail boxes, and did some hand painted saws....i stopped to look at his work which was really nice. iam lookin at a mailbox he did and all of a sudden this guy gets right in my face.....2 feet away....and says " you paint dont you?" i said yea....then he askes..what are you doin now?...told him, he says you like it?... i said no....then he says....see that catalog under your arm, throw it in the trash can, go home, get out your brushes...AND GO FIND A SIGN TO PAINT!!!! well now iam ready to punch this guy....then he say get goin...i aint got time to waste on you!!!!! now ia really p*****!!! then he say wait a minute...got some advice for ya...i had the 10,000 sq.ft shop, 10 employees, 100,000 a year....when i got down with payin for all this, and what the employees stole or trashed....i was basically workin for them. he said " when you get so big you cant handle the work...then you pick and choose the jobs you want to do...but always stay small enough....you dont wind up workin for employees. and he said now GET THE F**** OUTA HERE...well i left with my tail between my legs, stopped at aplace i worked at onthe way home, told the owner what i was gona do and he ordered a 3' x 4' 2 sided A-FRAME for $200...my 1st job....and i been doin it since......
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Rick, I've been through the overqualified thing too - really strange to have to 'dumb-down' a job application just to get hired. In the end, I turned out to be unemployable, I think because I could outproduce my bosses and couldn't abide sub-par output from myself, which intimidates those not as capable. When those over you are scared of you, it's not condusive to job security. That probably goes for other sign shops too, unless you can hook up with someone as a partner, where high skills would be an asset rather than a threat.
You didn't say how much you make at your current job, but you have to ask yourself what your income needs would be if you stayed in your current $500/mo recidence and didn't have the car expenses of commuting. If you needed $1000/week for instance, could you expect to make that in your own sign business? Naturally, there's no guarantees, but the answer is emphatically YES - you could easily knock down $1000 in sign jobs. It wouldn't take all week to do it either. But realistically, in the beginning, I bet you'd spend half every week working like a dog not making a cent, just lining up those one or two jobs that will pay.
I've thought a hundred times, I could really use a manager - someone to find me the juciest, high paying jobs, so all I had to do was DO them. I could potentially make $1000 a DAY, given the right projects, but that start and stop of going out and finding the good work is the killer for me. I was thinking recently how it's gotten to be sort of a life game with me, to see how much I could make in the shortest length of time...If $1000 a week is the goal, I don't want to make it in $200/day increments, I'd much rather network and scheme for four days, then slam that $1000 whack in a single blast. (but I digress).
I'm afraid there's no easy way to do it. In your own business you'll always be under that stress of not getting the sales. But GeeGods, anything would be better to me than the stress of a 5 hour commute. I'd rather live in a tent. Best of luck.
SONGPAINTER Original Sign Music by Sign People NOW AVAILABLE on CD and the proceeds go to Letterville's favorite charity! Click Here for Sound Clips! Posts: 1974 | From: Orleans, MA, Cape Cod, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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By the way, just in case some of you don't know, I work at www.huntdesign.com Joe I make 52k a year, great benefits, paid insurance, and last years bonus was 5200 bucks, I almost cried when I got it, I was so happy. Now the bad part, a few years ago, my wife left me, I have 4 boys that we share, in California (a no fault state) I found out the hard way how they deal with it, she gets around 2/3rds of my pay which leaves a total sum of 1400 a month to live on, with 50 hours a week at work and 25 hours of driving and the kids every weekend, I am in a bind on getting started on my own right now, the only smart thing I did do was buy tools when I was married and I got away with them on the divorce settlement.
Scooter, thanks, your input helps a lot, I have no experience in doing it on my own, I am good with clients, and like them so that is a great start, you gave me something to think about.
Daryl and Glen, it's good to know Im not alone, I understand about taking a small step back to take a giant one forward, part of ther reason to work closer is to enjoy my kids, and my life, I love my job and the people I work with, I have a high respect for my boss, thats what sucks about this. I actually love my job, always have.
Joe your story was great, I love hearing how other people started, I gives me hope, I am formally trained, worked in a few great shops and absorbed like a sponge. I consider myself lucky to have the chance I have, and I took full advantage of them.
Stephen, I hear bud, if I have to dig ditches or sling cow poop I'll do it to keep the kids fed, I have worked for the biggest jerks in the biz, but appreciated the stuff I was learning, one guy fired me for asking for a raise, I was making 6.50 an hour, and I offended him that I asked, and I was 35 years old!!!!
Thank again everybody!!
Rick
-------------------- Rick Chavez Hemet, CA Posts: 1540 | From: Hemet,CA U.S.A. | Registered: Jun 2001
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26 years ago I was trying to work up the courage to quit a high paying job to do what I loved. I knew I could succeed, but obligations kept me from it.
In the end I worked night and day... at my regular job and at what I was going for.
I recieved a $2000 commission, and with Janis' support made the leap of faith. Never looked back.
It was skinny at times, real lean, but there's been lots of fat times too. All of it has been rewarding.
If you decide to make the leap, use that same commuting time as sales and promotional time. You got the head smarts... JUST DO IT!
Approach your current boss and ask if you can do some of your current work as a freelancer. If you can it will be a huge step towards making it on your own.
Good luck with your decision!!
-dan
-------------------- Dan Sawatzky Imagination Corporation Yarrow, British Columbia dan@imaginationcorporation.com http://www.imaginationcorporation.com
Being a grampa is one of the the most wonderful things in the world!!! Posts: 8764 | From: Yarrow, B.C. Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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