posted
I need help in a t-shirt design so I decided to offer a contest. The design must be in my hands by 3:00 PM on Thursday September 4 to be considered. Judging is by the tract directors on Thursday night. The winning design needs to be ready to go to the screen printer ( corelDraw )by Monday September 8, 2003 9:00 AM. The Winner will be shipped a money order by UPS Monday afternoon. The design is for a race track that is going to bracket finals. Here are the design requirements: (1) A Cross in the background of the design (like a shadow) (2) No cars (3) 2003 Sportsman Track of the Year (4) Elk Creek Dragway (5) The color of the t-shirt is sand so colors must look good on this color t-shirt (6) Also want a tree or a christmas tree as it is refered to. Any question I can be reached by phone 276-236-9013 or email packracingandgraphics@valink.com. Good luck and I really hope to get some good designs. Remember designs DO NOT have to be screen print ready. It can be just be a drawing that is in color. We just have to be able to tell what the shirt will look like. A great deal of time does not have to go into it till you know you are the winner. Thanks and have a good time with this.
posted
Sorry Don. I didn't mean to step on any toes. Your entry is accepted. There can be as many colors as needed but we usually go with 6 colors. The picture will be on the front. All the people around here do not charge an art or design fee if you purchase 144 shirts. I did not realize the $150.00 was not a going price. We live in Southwest VA. and the prices are not what they are everywhere else. Please don't think I was trying to get something for nothing because I wasn't. Don or anyone else, if you do screenprinting then we will consider you printing the shirts also. I just figured the shipping for 150 or 175 shirts will kill the price and make the shirts cost too much. If the price is OK I'll consider the screen printing to be done by the designer also. Whatever makes us both happy.
-------------------- Cynthia Pack 246 Diamondview Loop Galax, Va. 24333 Posts: 659 | From: Galax, Virginia USA | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
It's not a matter of stepping on toes. Isn't this the same design job you posted about a week or two ago that you got hired to do, then realized you couldn't do it? Now you want us to give you a stack of designs, you'll pick the best of the bunch, and pay the best designer less than going rate? You tell me...what's wrong with this picture? If you couldn't do the job or already have someone to sub it out to, why did you accept it?
-------------------- Chris Welker Wildfire Signs Indiana, Pa Posts: 4254 | From: Indiana, PA | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
I have to agree with the obvious assessment. I saw this post before any replies rolled in, & I just shook my head. It was actually sympathy I was feeling, because I really sensed that the author really didn't foresee how this post would come off to much of the rest of us. I also agree that, though it is never fun to see someone being potentially embarrassed, people here are not being ruthless or inconsiderate in how they state their views.
Cynthia, we all make our share of mistakes. I think many would agree that this was one. Maybe, behind the scenes, some folks with different views and/or possibly more time then money right now may be submitting you some designs. Hopefully it works out for you.
I was wondering why what seemed rather obvious to many of us, did not seem to you like it would be insulting. I see that you are not a newbie around here. I checked the "recent posts" link in your profile & was surprised to see only 8 posts out of the 50 shown that were not on your own topics. It would seem that statistic points at an imbalance in the give & take that makes this place great. (Or it could just be that not all of us are so prone to having an opinion on everything as some people are )
Anyway, hope you can just take the critisizm in stride & be inspired to dig deep & find that brilliant racetrack design within you.
posted
Actually, if you can put up with a couple pages of flames from the designers that frequent some of the popular design forums, you might actually do better posting your contest there. Lots of entry level and student graphic designers also hang out in them and jump on these "contests".
posted
Thanks, Bob. I KNOW that Old English all caps would be better, but I'd already spent 5 minutes on it and considering the prize, 5 more minutes woulda been a bit silly.
By the way, if I win, I have to split the prize money with my model, Si Allen.
[ September 02, 2003, 10:02 PM: Message edited by: Don Coplen ]
posted
This lady has a problem. She asked for help. Now she is offering money for help. I dont think this is how I would handle it, but she is tryin'. The fact that she has turned to this forum instead of an unknown individual tells me that she trusts it's members. To become the object of ridcule when requesting help has to be very painful. Especially from such talented craftspeople.
I ain't never got so well off that I couldn't use $150. I hope to God I never make fun of someone in need. Let alone a fellow craftsperson asking for help...
posted
But Alf...Don't ya realise that Don IS " Designer of the Palm's Ornaments Trilogy vector art collection"????
He is MUCH better than the rest of we lowly folks, who just toil away and try to make a meagre living!!!
This is the quote though..."Just kidding, sorta. Good luck."
And to Cynthia, who both Don and I met and visited with in Commerce at Jimmy's meet, I am sad to say I am not that good at t-shirt designs, but I hope you get some help via e-mail rather than the arrogant crap you have received here so far.
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
posted
There are alot of people here in Letterville that need to be flamed for asking totally dumb questions such as what they should charge and ask themselves what they are doing on this website and in this business, why pick on this chick ? When Rapid-Tac wanted new shirts they came here just like Cynthia and asked for designs which all of you gladly volunteered for, why is she any different?
Some of you need to put your priorities in the correct order.
I know why I do what I do, but do you?
-------------------- HotLines Joey Madden - pinstriping since 1952 'Perfection, its what I look for and what I live for'
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Yes, and a few days ago there were some polite, good offerings of designs with a hooker and a bowling ball, and no scorn...... Best wishes
-------------------- "Stewey" on chat
"...there are no limits when you aim for perfection..." Jonathan Livingston Seagull Posts: 7016 | From: Highgrove via Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia | Registered: Dec 2002
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posted
Sorry, I guess I didn't make myself clear. I was not HIRED, I was asked to take care of getting the shirts made this year. They know I don't design shirts or screen print. These aare people I am with every weekend. I am not making any money on this job in fact I was putting up my own $150.00 for the "contest". We wanted something different and I thought that the Letterheads would have much greater input than to go to IHRA because all they do are cars. IHRA were going to do the screen printing after the design was finalized. Only because they are close (2 hours away) and we could pick them up and save shipping. I was not putting one over on anybody because the board even moved their meeting to Thursday night so they could view the designs. Some of you have hurt me (which I am sure you don't care) and words can never be taken back. I am disabled and trying to earn enough money so I don't have to take SS which is out of your pocket. This is a job that I have tried to teach myself (with the good help of some people like Glenn from Wilson NC) and the only information I have is the internet. I can not travel to meetings and training like most people. I do not advertise but I have all the work I can do. Most of my work comes from referals and repeat business so I must do something right. Yes, I do ask for a lot of help from other Letterheads and I don't offer much advise because I feel like everyone else knows alot more than I do. I guess I will find another source for my information or better yet I'll sell my equipment and sit on my butt and live off each one of you and collect my disability. I have never wanted something I haven't earned but when I am kicked in the butt for trying to help my friends and fellow racers than maybe it is time to do just that. I hope for each one of you that you never have to live in the pain I have every day because it is a lot easier to just lay around and do nothing. This job has been the one thing that helps me get up in the mornings and face each day. For those of you that have submitted designs, I thank you very much. Because of you that have taken the time, I will not withdraw the offer. THAT WOULD NOT BE FAIR. To the rest of you that have been so unfair to me, I hope it doesn't come back to you some day. I am really sorry that I have even read these posts because the day started off good for me and now I am so upset and crying that my heart is not into anything.
posted
Whenever I ask myself why I'm not a resident I just need to take a look at the majority of replies on this thread. If you don't want to take her up on the offer, why bother opening your mouth???
-------------------- Bruce Evans Crown Graphics Chino, CA graphics@westcoach.net Posts: 913 | From: Chino, CA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
You can't just post something and expect to run away and hide all the time Don. We've been friends for many years, but I'm not with you on this one at all.
This is Letterville. Like Letterheads, our community consists of many brand new to our trade and/or those with some experience trying to improve their designing skills. It needs to be pointed out that the original 7 Letterheads who startred all this were students. It's been 30 years since then, but I'll bet most still consider themselves students.
When did you start a designer business Don? In St. Petersburg, you worked as a designer for an RV company. You told us many times how little an hour you worked for. How much was it?
Where are you working now? What are they paying you for your design work? I'm sorry my friend. You are a very talented guy, but you have a long history of settling for far less than Cynthia is offering.
We've all spent hours working on Letterhead projects. How many ever worry about the hours, materials and shipping costs incurred in producing and showing off these masterpieces. In many cases, they are given away, or exchanged with other Letterheads. This isn't about money. It's recognition and the education that comes from working along, side by side as equals, with our peers.
Joey talks about dumb questions like what to charge. What's dumb about that? I was not born with the skills I have today. When I was starting out, I asked plenty of dumb questions, made all the mistakes anyone trying to learn something on their own does. It's sure not as easy as being born with all the answers like Joey was, but for many, it's the only way to learn. Instead of critism, people like Joey need to be explaining how to determine your hourly rate and apply it against every job. Only then will they be able to enjoy the life of luxury Joey does.
There are days I read this BB and just flinch at the responces. In many cases, I see people we know well personally, preaching to others about things they don't do themselves in real life. Sometimes I'm tempted to take the stage like the lady in the song Harper Valley PTA and expose some of the hypocracy that goes on. Don't panic. I'd never do that.
The point I am trying to make is that we are a community. Those asking for help here are not our clients. We all start somewhere and need to remember the hard lessons we learned along the way. We've all asked the same "dumb" questions. Those that feel the desire to share their knowledge and experience with newbies, and save them some of the hurdles we encountered, are called Letterheads. These is what Letterville is all about.
Hate to say it, but those that take delight in heaping ridicule on their peers or indulging in other mean spirited posts, need to find a forum more dedicated to their overstuffed egos. That applies to Letterville Chat too.
[ September 03, 2003, 03:04 PM: Message edited by: Steve Shortreed ]
-------------------- Steve Shortreed 144 Hill St., E. Fergus, Ontario Canada N1M 1G9 519-787-2673
posted
Steve, the luxury of being problem free hasn't come by accident for me, as a lot of hard work has gone into it as well, we all know that working for one's self is more then a handful. All Cynthia asked for was something she wanted to pay for, a contest like any other contest. The answers she recieved were far worse then any flaming I have done in the past towards persons who hadn't used any common sense other then typing on their keyboard.
Persons should get the whole picture and then put all their ducks in a row.
-------------------- HotLines Joey Madden - pinstriping since 1952 'Perfection, its what I look for and what I live for'
posted
We agree on something important here Joey. Cynthia is feeling bad as a result of reading The Letterville BB. Since I created this thing, I can't help feeling regret and outrage myself.
I want to personally apoligize to Cynthia. Please don't allow the words and/or opinion of anyone ruin your day. Remember. You can't control what you read, but you do have some control over your reaction.
Like any community, Letterville has it's share of gossips and just plain mean people. Before I take any advice, I do all I can to make sure those I get advice from are truly doing or have whatever it is I strive to achieve. Beware of false prophets, especially those that inflate their own self worth by trying to destroy others.
We often get mail from those that read the BB, but are afraid to post out of fear of ridicule. We also see cases where people choose to leave Letterville because of something they read here.
What a shame if all good people did that in real life. Every community and country would be practically deserted as a decent, but fearful majority allowed bullies to drive them from their homes. Why allow it to happen here? Don't blame your community because a handful are jerks.
-------------------- Steve Shortreed 144 Hill St., E. Fergus, Ontario Canada N1M 1G9 519-787-2673
I think your approach is Right on! You asked if someone would partake in a contest to help design a T-Shirt for you. You offered a dollar figure in the end result.
I myself have nothing to do and will try to come up with a design if I can be on time for your deadline.
I am sure there is more that enough people out here that will help out.
Is AI or vector files OK? I don't work in Corel even tho I have the program!
-------------------- Stephen Deveau RavenGraphics Insinx Digital Displays
Letting Your Imagination Run Wild! Posts: 4327 | From: Lower Sackville, Nova Scotia, Canada | Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
oh well another post ...that went over the edge by a couple with bulldog mouths and sh** for brains! iam sure this will get deleted as most of my posts do.....
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
A M E N Steve! Dang, there you go again, reminding me of why I like you and Barb so much!
Darrell, you sure hit a cord with your words.
Don, that was some funning gone bad for you. Ouch! Take some time to pout, er,uh chill if you must, but don'cha think an apology may be another alternative? You sorely missed the mark here, but you are not terrible You're human!
Cynthia, I know you got hurt by this. Heck, I sure felt it! Please know that you've got folks here that wish you well. I'd want to be first in line to give you a big fat hug right now, but I got a feeling that would be quite a long line!
Chin up girl, tomorrow will be better! Nettie
-------------------- "When Love and Skill Work Together ... Expect a Masterpiece"
posted
Steve that has got to be one of the most reasoned and well worded responses i have read. thank you
like you, i have groaned at responses in the past and i have lurked around here for months even years on end, simply didn't like the tone, but if there was more thought go into responses we would have such a better forum.
people, remember that everybody shouldn't have to develop a thick skin to live in letterville. back off a little every now and then.
-------------------- Miles Cullinane, Cork, Ireland.
From the sometimes sunny south of Ireland, Posts: 914 | From: Cork, Ireland | Registered: Jul 1999
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posted
This is an example of what happens on the Internet people think they can write whatever they want without any consequences for their rude unprofessional behavior. I am sure if you had to pass half these people on the street everyday they would think twice about burning their bridges. I am sure most could not look you squarely in the eye and feel proud. Your request was very fair and did not require some of the responses you received. I for one do not have the time to enter your contest at this time but I do not feel insulted that you asked. Good luck try not to let the bad few get you down.
-------------------- Steve Eisenreich Dezine Signs PO BOX 6052 Stn Forces Cold Lake, Alberta T9M 2C5 Posts: 774 | From: Cold Lake | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
Yes, I am very sorry. Just trying to to be funny and backfired miserably.
If you do a search for my posts, go back as far as you want...and you'll find that I don't get involved with this kind of stuff. Please, go look. I'll wait for you. To read a few responses, odd for me to see that I screw up once after years of watchin my p's and q's and tryin to be nice and helpful to everybody and you'd think i'm the devil incarnated and have a habit of stabbin people in the back on a regular basis on this board. I know by hindsight that I should have kept out of this thing.
Anyway, I regret I didn't keep my distance on this one. I guess some good comes from this. Found out where I stand with certain people. Guess walking out of rooms back first may be my safest option in the future.
Note to self..."don't make a mistake around these people".
[ September 03, 2003, 04:40 PM: Message edited by: Don Coplen ]
posted
Did Cynthia find out where she, as a person, stands with you Don? Or did she just find out what stand you took on one small issue, in one fleeting moment in the grand scheme of things?
To think you know "where you stand with certain people" based on replies to something even you felt justified an apology, is simply hypocritical.
BTW, where you stand with me is as a highly talented, knowledgable & helpful neighbor with a generally upbeat attitude, a good sense of humor, & enough of an outspoken independent streak to ocassionally get yourself in trouble.
Cynthia, I hope none of my comments added any salt to the wounds of this thread. My apologies if I also hurt you in any way. I attempted to be non judgemental in my observations & hope they came off as such. I was still working around 4am when I saw your latest post, before editing. I was truely amazed at the appearant confidence you re-entered the conversation with. Like Nettie said, the sting could be felt way out here, so another "chin up" & "hope the day goes better" from me to you.
posted
i have to watch my p's & q's because too many people know where i live.
i can't run anymore.
-------------------- Jimmy Chatham Chatham Signs 468 stark st Commerce, Ga 30529 Posts: 1766 | From: Commerce, GA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
As well I feel a need to say sorry for laughing at Don's Picture, it was funny to me over and above this post, (and still is lol) but I also knew what I was doing, I cant deny it I knew its sole purpose being posted, sometimes its too east to jump on the bandwagon without thinking of the concequences.
Where is that banging head on wall icon.
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I do not have time myself to work on the design and don't think this thread has went as far 'south' as some. The reason I am writing on this one...
I hope those that do take time off ... for what ever reason ... do come back. This is a great place where everyone can come. Heh, yeah, there are times when peeps get embarassed at mistakes they make and times when peeps get really pi$$ed at replies from others, but the place is made up of some great people, a huge mix of personalities, thin skinned bullies, those that throw around liberally and those that are full of as well as .
I rarely join in on converstions but I check the place a lot for ideas and techniques for my art... sometimes i can lend a tip or two.
Hey, you can't make everyone happy all the time (cept for Nettie ... and that prob gets on some peoples nerves, haha). But if you make a mistake, unintentionally screw up, or even do it on purpose.... stick around... someone will prob do it right back at you.
There are some names that I no longer see around here that I was accustomed to seeing, I dont know the stories about why they are nolonger around, but I miss seeing the good things they had to add.
I like you all, not all of you all the time, but in general, this 'Letterhead' ideal that gets mentioned now and then... well, it is alive and strong when you step back and see the big picture.
for that I say
/steps off soapbox
-------------------- --If you don't care where you are, you ain't lost.
Tony Potter Blind Mice and Company 3001 Bever Ave. SE Cedar Rapids, IA 52403 (319) 573-9001 www.blindmiceandcompany.com tonypotter@yahoo.com Posts: 209 | From: Cedar Rapids, IA | Registered: Nov 1999
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As for when they posts go south. it is funny, sometimes the smallest thing can start the snowball rolling and at the bottom of the hill is a mass of arms and leggs and signs and tastefull colors and smiley faces and shaking "heads" wondering how the crap that happened.
Just thought to add that.
-------------------- --If you don't care where you are, you ain't lost.
Tony Potter Blind Mice and Company 3001 Bever Ave. SE Cedar Rapids, IA 52403 (319) 573-9001 www.blindmiceandcompany.com tonypotter@yahoo.com Posts: 209 | From: Cedar Rapids, IA | Registered: Nov 1999
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posted
I had a feeling something like this was going to happen when I read Cynthia's original post. I remember some of the reactions I got when I ran that little logo contest a few years back when I was stuck for ideas. Some folk enjoyed it. Others were down right vicious, particularly via e-mail.
I understand where some of you is coming from when you expressed your disapproval. I can't tell you how many times some have come to me for help without making an effort on their own first and are just plain lazy.
I can tell you from experience, Cynthia is not one of them.
Anyhow, for those who don't know Cynthia, she is a wonderful person. I have a great deal of respect for her. She has an impairment that limits her mobility and comfort. Things which most of us take for granted.
But, rather than feel sorry for herself she has taken on the task of learning new skills and be more self-reliant.
That's all I have to say.
---
BTW, Dan Antonelli, you haven't claimed your prize yet.
[ September 03, 2003, 06:14 PM: Message edited by: Glenn Taylor ]
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