We are very new to this business, and we have some questions about how to lay down multi-layered vinyl.
The design we are currently working on is relatively small (6" by 6"), so that makes it all the harder.
When we tried laying it down, we found that it was very hard to see the bottom layer of vinyl through the transfer tape, and this made lining up a problem. The bottom layer is visible only when the transfer tape is VERY close to the bottom, and at that point the top layer (on the transfer tape) starts sticking to the bottom layer, making it impossible to pull off and start over.
Are there any special tricks to laying this stuff down? One thing we came up with when doing single layered stuff (ie: printed vinyl) is drawing a straight line on the transfer tape, and then using thin green masking tape for a line on the material (in our case, coroplast [sp?]). We would then line up the line on the transfer tape with the green masking tape, and all would be good.
However, this trick doesn't seem to work very well with multi-layered vinyl, simply because there is NO room for error.
Anyone have any suggestions?
We were thinking maybe some people are using a custom-built (or perhaps purchased) jig to lay this stuff down.. as it seems very difficult to lay down by hand.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you,
Dylan Cooke & Laurie Nahirney
-------------------- Imagine That Laurie Walling 734 1st Ave N. Saskatoon, SK, Canada S7K1Y1 Posts: 16 | From: Saskatoon, SK, Canada | Registered: Aug 2003
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Laurie..I pre mask each layer at the shop. I then use a light table (window works too) to align each layer and tape them in position with each other. I have done as many as 6 layers using my method. I use a "hinge" to unfold them from the pre aligned position and the whole thing goes together pretty well.
Hopefully Mark M. will address this for you. He has an excellent picture on his website that illustrates the method. If not, I'll post a link to it.
Happy stickin!!!!!!!!
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
Pretty much what the others have said. Also, cut registration marks on all the layers, and line them up on the next layer down as you go along. Some of the folks here also like to use clear transfer tape----but you still have the problem of early sticking once you take off the backing paper.
Mostly,I just use registration marks, hinge each layer at the bottom, work upright, and have at it.
Light boxes are good too, just have never used one.
FWIW
-------------------- Bill Preston Fly Creek, N.Y. USA Posts: 943 | From: Fly Creek, N.Y. USA | Registered: Jan 2000
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I don't like multilayers. We cut the entire graphic in the first layer, all colors separations, and then continue to insert colours no matter how many there are. We just pick up one colour after the other on the same premask inserting them as we go. I don't like thick appliques. I like it all on one level.
posted
laurie,.....try using clear transfer tape with a slightly wet application.....i don't do a lot of vinyl stuff, but i have found this method works for me when i have regristration concerns......vance
For future reference ... the search feature is a great tool to find information without having to wait for a reply. Doing a search on "layer vinyl" will yeild a wealth of information.
-------------------- Compulsive, Neurotic, Anti-social and Paranoid ... but basically Happy Posts: 2677 | From: Rochester, NY, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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6"x6" multi colored? those aren't much fun. But, then, I used to lay down 20 to 30 feet long in as many as 4 or 5 layers for RVs...which isn't much fun either. (Particular when one or two of the layers were airbrushed and I'd have to not only cut, weed, etc, but re-airbrush if I messed up.)
The registration marks are good. When I use those, I use a couple triangles, not squares, at the top of the graphic. Seems it's easier to see the alignment for me. Hinging the layers and laying them down one at a time works well. I've written a description of how I was taught to do multi color jobs, which could be help and might show up in a search.
I think sooner or later everybody comes upon their own version of how best to do it. I don't think there's any one right way...but maybe a few hundred wrong ways are out there.
I finally talked the local Grimco into stocking Rapid Prep. I picked up a gallon of Rapid Tac II today and the largest size of Rapid Prep they had. Can you send me some free samples so I can have the little squirt thingy?
Edited for the following apology:
I just reread my post. I meant my message to be an endorsement of Roger’s products, in a sort of light hearted way. Instead, I came across as groveling and cheap, which certainly was not my intention. I can get my own little squirt thingies.
[ August 30, 2003, 02:05 AM: Message edited by: David Harding ]
-------------------- David Harding A Sign of Excellence Carrollton, TX Posts: 5107 | From: Carrollton, TX, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I do quite a few multi-layered graphics. Usually for fire department emblems, etc. I purchase a clear realease liner and use a clear application tape. I lift the graphic component from the original liner with the clear tape and place it on the clear liner. Then I can see my registry and get it exactly where I want it. No guess work. Hope this helps.
-------------------- Robert Graham Grahamsville Signs 1120 E McReavy Road Union, Washington 98592 360-898-2260 Fax 360-898-2262 e-mail:gvs@hctc.com Posts: 136 | From: Union,Washington - USA | Registered: Oct 1999
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David...I buy my Rapid products in gallons too. I used to use used Fantastik spray bottles to spray them but the spray pumps would wear out quickly. I found that you can buy unused NEW WD-40 bottles. I bought some about 5 years ago and have yet to replace one. They work GREAT!!!!
I just wrapped the bottles with different coloured vinyl and printed the various products' names on em.
Here is a pic of an original bottle.
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
posted
The best technique I've found is to use registration marks. Unlike some of the others, I designed a crosshair with rounded corners and tips, so that it weeds easily, and named the file "0-crshr" so it is the first on my directory. I use as many as necessary and cut them with every color.
Once every thing is cut and masked, I apply the first color with the crosshairs intact. For each add'l color, I trim two or three tips off the crosshair, which gives me up to three reference points to line up each crosshair. If you've got the time, you can do them wet. However, if you line the crosshairs up and hinge the decal securely, it's almost foolproof...almost. You've just have to double-check each crosshair, esp. the ones on the furthest ends for accuracy.
posted
"If you've got the time" Dwayne, if you take the time to set-up,measure for the hinge,why would it take longer to do it wet? You have to clean the substrate wheather you wet or dry apply, sorry I don't follow you ?
Roger
-------------------- Roger Bailey Rapid Tac Incorporated 186 Combs Dr. Merlin Oregon 97532 Posts: 3020 | From: Merlin Oregon | Registered: Dec 1998
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This is the way I do it. Maybe there is a better way, but works for me.
-------------------- Mario G. Lafreniere (Fergie) J&N Signs Winter did show up! Posts: 1257 | From: Chapleau, Ontario | Registered: Jun 1999
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Cool illustration Mario! Here is what I would do if I want to use Mario's method of registration, but wish to have the entire graphic pre-assembled:
1) Start with TOP layer. Tape it to the table. 2) Apply transfer tape so that on one side it overlaps and sticks to the table top, but does NOT touch the registration marks. 3)Lift that layer with the transfer tape and lay down backwards. Leave liner taped in place. 4)Snip corners of second colour registration marks and tape into place over the liner that is still taped down. 5) Press down transfer tape and lift this colour also. Lay down backwards and remove only this liner. 6) Tape third colour into place and do the same thing. Go on until last colour. This way you are working from the top to the bottom layer, instead of the other way around.
I hope this makes sense? It's not as complicated as it sounds and makes application at the job site a breeze ( use Rapid Tac for that, so you can support Roger ) Good luck.
posted
Hi, I'm sure all of the above methods work, but I don't like the little registration marks or the clear tape, so what we do here is cut each color with the weed border option on in CASMATE, so that each color is the same sized finished sheet. We lay down the bottom color, mark the corners of the transfer tape before peeling it, then lay the next layer on those marks and so on ... This works great even for our new employees.
-------------------- Jim Hansen Tri-Star Graphics Bethel, Ct. 800-716-6500 e-mail:tsgracingdecals@aol.com www.tsgracingdecals.com Posts: 51 | From: Bethel, Ct. usa | Registered: Jan 2001
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I just got back from camping. Of course, it rained the whole time. All seven families felt they were being hosed from hundreds of Dave Grundy’s WD-40 sprayers loaded with barrels of Roger’s secret RapidTac-III (so secret even Roger doesn’t know about it yet).
I have used Jim’s weed border technique and Mario’s box registration method quite often with good success. I will break out my WD-40 sprayer and try some application fluid in it. WalMart and places like that also sell plant misters that can be used. They probably fall between the Fantastik sprayer and WD-40 applicator on the durability scale.
At Roger’s invitation, I emailed him with a private groveling and begging request. I will get my free samples with the little squirt thingies attached. They’ll go into an installation kit so that there will always be some on hand at a jobsite.
-------------------- David Harding A Sign of Excellence Carrollton, TX Posts: 5107 | From: Carrollton, TX, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I generally prefer a method like Rosemary's, with all bits cut out of each color, so all the colors of vinyl are on the application surface and not layered. If the design is simple, like striping, I will layer it because it's way faster for application.
I built a large light table for registering.
Another option is the SpeedPress, it's a metal frame with clear application tape that holds your material above the substrate until you are ready to apply it.
posted
I agree with registration marks, clear tape has to a winner too. The last job that I remember being a real hassle was a logo of a bird with a sunset behind. It was for a window for the karate studio of my friend's Gisa. It had to be done from the inside so it was in reverse and the red sun behind the bird was not too bad to put on, since it was in pieces and could be nestled in. However, the outline of the bird was put on first, and it was a bit tricky to get all the other pieces of the bird over and in between the outline. I even had to go under with a knife and take out a couple small details.
-------------------- Deb Fowler
"It's kind of fun to do the impossible - Walt Disney (1901-1966) Posts: 5373 | From: Loves Park, Illinois | Registered: Aug 1999
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When inserting colors using Rosemary’s technique, I will sometimes cut the background piece with a .02" contour around each part that will receive another color inset. It helps allow the dropped in colors to be completely flush, without any slight overlaps. The fiftieth of an inch border around the piece generally isn’t noticeable.
I have found out that punched vinyls of different brands will cut to slightly different lengths because of minor differences in hole spacing. The slight oversizing of the holes in the background section helps make up for any registration problems caused by different vinyl lots.
-------------------- David Harding A Sign of Excellence Carrollton, TX Posts: 5107 | From: Carrollton, TX, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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