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Funny thing. Wanted to post a question asking which thermal or Inkjet printers are the best. I see Bob Burns post bringing up opinions on just the subject. In the market to buy one. Would like to know what do most people use? Whats practical for every day sign use?
Matt
-------------------- Signs Solutions, Inc. Matthew Rossi Midlothian, VA, 23113 signsol@earthlink.net Posts: 139 | From: Midlothian, Virginia | Registered: Nov 1998
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I have a encad 36" inkjet printer. It's ok now after I worked out all the bugs....I use outdoor ink and it works ok but be careful of the application... boats last about 1 month magnetics last about 6 months, banners last about 6 roll up and storage and then the ink cracks.. The maker says 2 years ( BULL ) I have found that if you laminate it, it will last longer and looks a whole lot better. I use a cold laminate. I use corel 9 and a onxy rip. Many times I have made this statement...I wish I had never bought it.. But I did and am making the best of it. Don't take that wrong... I just have a lot of glitches with this equipment... When it works, it works great...When it don't it' hours of redo and pulling your hair out......good luck on your decision
-------------------- Chuck Coupland Coupland Signs 426 N. 11th Laporte, Tx. 77571 copesigns@aol.com Posts: 36 | From: LaPorte, Tx. USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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There's pros and cons to all of them....but.....for the sign business, I would buy a ROLAND SOLJET.....the one that cuts too, and get a Daige cold laminator, Second choice....a ROLAND CAMMJET. Either of these machines will do most of what a sign shop does.
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At the moment the Roland SC Soljet series seems to be top of the pile - it prints and cuts up to either 54 or 72" wide at 1440 dpi with high speed on coated and uncoated media (with the new EX inks) and if using the heater bar dries quickly It can print rigid media up to 1mm thick (obviously depending if the media can accept the inks) - it also has an optical registration system that means you can print , laminate and then reload for cutting , costs about $30k and the cost of printing is more or less than $1 per sq ft in terms of material an ink. Realistically you can print about 6 sq meteres (about 60 sq ft) per hour if you are using 720 dpi modes. At artistic mode the output is stunning , real photo quality and the RIP that comes with it (made by WASATCH) is very very good. At the moment its the most flexible , but digital printing is like digital cameras , the moment you buy your a new and better model comes out. Thing is , you really need to buy what suits you price and customer base wise , the Soljet might be overkill. There is a new smaller Soljet coming out but I have no info on price , abilites etc - tho was told its a 4 colour machine , 36" wide etc - most likely in the $10-12k range? Be careful when getting into digital printing , you have a very steep learning curve ahead , not only do you have to know printing and colour technology , you have to know graphic design , advertising lingo and be prepared to work with idiots who send you bad artwork. Not only that , you have to agressiviely market yourself and be prepared to waste lots of material initially. The machine is also a network machine , and trying to print via a printer cable is just not on , so plan on a network card as well.
If your area is saturated with digital printers or print shops , I would be MORE wary as these guys will price you out the market. Apart from that , add the cost of a decent laminator , a really fast computer , a decent 20-21" screen and an operator to the machine itself. A thermal machine is not an option these days unless the initial price is attractive and you absolutely HAVE to print metallic spot colours - they are slow and running costs (mainly the thermal ribbons/rolls and or head replacements) are horrendous , most of them are designed or really do well on very small stuff and output is nowhere near as good as a variable droplet inkjet. Doing large format with these is VERY expensive per sq ft (albeit a per sq ft pricing model is not really the way to price your printing) Of the thermal machines , most likely the Gerber is the best - I have Rolands and would not suggest buying them.
-------------------- Rodney Gold Toker Bros Posts: 57 | From: South Africa | Registered: Aug 2003
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As Rodney said, you should consider what type of output you plan to do. I've written a very good article on choosing a wide format printer on Graphics.com. I'd suggest reading that first and then doing a lot of research to see which printer best suits your planned output.
Encads are not bad printers, but are not ideal for outdoors and certainly not without lamination. That sounds like a painful learning curve there. Budget for lamination regardless of which printer you purchase, though with thermal transfer printers, it's not as critical unless you're doing vehicles but liquid lams work well for that.
The new SolJet EX is sounding like the best option for anyone wanting to get into outdoor durable printing "reasonably" (around $30-$35K). Also plan to budget for color management software and equipment if you will be experimenting with different medias or if you will be doing color critical work.
-------------------- Kenneth Sandlin Author of "Wide Format Printing: An Introduction and Buyer's Guide" PO Box 1295 St. Augustine, FL 32085 kennethsandlin@msn.com http://wfprinting.tripod.com Posts: 116 | From: Jacksonville, FL | Registered: May 2002
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For anyone looking into digital printing for the first time, follow Ken's link above and look at his article. It's short, but has LOTS of important information to help you 'debunk' all the claims flying around in today's marketplace.
I just KNOW I'm going to get attacked on this, but have you looked at the Gerber EDGE Matthew?
Not everything is about printing "pretty pictures". You need to look at your specific shop, and your customers----analyze where the greatest potential for growth is. If you have a customer that already spends $1000/year with you on various cut or painted graphics, can you grow that to $1500 or $2500 per year by selling him more products. Look at small decals that your customer can slap on EVERYTHING that goes out his door. Does he need promotional items like Magnets, etc for tradeshows, or again to handout.
Most digital printers utilize CMYK technology (or a variation thereof) to produce colours. Thermal Transfer machines like the Roland, Gerber EDGE, Matan or Summa DC family employ SPOT COLOUR technology. You need red, put red in the machine. Green, load green. Many think this is older technology and alot of work, but trust me, the results are worth it! I've run an EDGE for over 10 years, and it's as relevant to day to day signwork now as it was when introduced---the same with the other spot/thermal ribbon machines. Inkjets are going to mix magenta and yellow to make red, sometimes leading to unexpected results, and some colour vibrancy can be lost.
Digital printing makes everyone think of full-vehicle wraps, digital billboards, full colour graphics of models on the beach to help sell Sea-Doos or whatever. That is not all that digital printing has to offer you.
Digital Printing is about working smarter, selling more products to your customers, making you greater profits in the process.
Take a simple banner layout. You can lay the banner down in your shop, cut 3 or 4 colours of vinyl, weed and mask and apply---this all takes time. Same with paint---wait for dry time. With digital printing, you can take the same file that you'd cut---sometimes with even LESS work due to overlaps, etc----send to your printer and get onto something else, letting your printer do all the work.
I won't bore you any longer----digital printing is a big part of all of our businesses now. Investigate wisely, choose the technology that is going to allow you to sell more to your existing customers first, and then build from there. Look at buying a system that allows you to turn around and re-invest in 2 years to stay current.
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I just bought a Summa DC3. My PC60 was only good for small prints. I can't see anyone buying a Edge machine that you have to feed 1 color in, then print, then manualy feed the next color in, then after all that take the damn thing out and put it in another machine to cut the contour! I've got better things to do. I love the feature of push the button and its done! I have had the PC60 for a few years now and find most all of the jobs are on white vinyl. The majority of my jobs are vehicle advertising. The thermal prints have worked great for me with no laminations, just Frog Juice. I also think the support is great from Summa. Not like Roland at all.
-------------------- John Arnott El Cajon CA 619 596-9989 signgraphics1@aol.com http://www.signgraphics1.com Posts: 1443 | From: El Cajon CA usa | Registered: Dec 1998
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Changing foils on an EDGE isn't all that bad----better than cutting, weeding and laying up. The big thing with Thermal Transfer printers, specifically the EDGE, is to open your eyes to all the different materials you can print on other than white---polycarbonate 2nd surface, brushed metals, clear and print white, static cling----sorry, I'll stop the Gerber EDGE commercial there.
The MAIN POINT of my post was to look at something other than just a BIG PRINTER to print pictures. You made a good decision in your Summa DC3 John, as you have spot colour capabilites, you can print direct to vinyl, and you have the capability of doing large pictures, or small little decals and cutting them out.
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Hey thanks Bob! I've really been working the thing over to get it as good as possible. My wife helped a lot (she's the creative one ).
I really wanted to finish refining it before my articles really started hitting. I've got similar articles to the Graphics.com one coming out in Modern Reprographics (Sept) and Quick Printing (Oct) as well as a longer one in Digital Publishing Solutions (Oct) that is the first in a series of three.
I'm going to do a major in-depth review of the major RIPs for my January update and plan to write a few articles on the subject.
I want to grow up to be the Ralph Nader of wide format printing
-------------------- Kenneth Sandlin Author of "Wide Format Printing: An Introduction and Buyer's Guide" PO Box 1295 St. Augustine, FL 32085 kennethsandlin@msn.com http://wfprinting.tripod.com Posts: 116 | From: Jacksonville, FL | Registered: May 2002
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