Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6874 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I could hack into this board and unlock topics if I wanted to, It is the internet afterall. But I respect The mayors privacy and all of the e-mail traffic. I would never snoop around and leave undetected, because it's just plain fun, er, I mean wrong.
-------------------- Mike Duncan Lettercraft Signs Posts: 1328 | From: Centreville, VA | Registered: Oct 2000
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The only persons able to close or delete a topic are the BB Moderators. In this case, it's Barb and I.
If this is in reference to Timi's recent post, we saw it run the full range of emotions and finally get resolved on a positive note. Seemed like a great time to end that particular topic.
Anyone who wants to discuss this subject further is free to start another topic.
-------------------- Steve Shortreed 144 Hill St., E. Fergus, Ontario Canada N1M 1G9 519-787-2673
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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I think it was a very important issue, and good topic, and hated to see it go downhill. I wouldn't have been able state either side of it any better. The one thing that I find hard for me though, is reading the posts that ramble on and on, not getting to the point.... Many of our posts could be edited into short stories, and have as much or maybe more impact than they do. Many have great info, buried in endless posts. I just don't have time to read them, and for this reason miss a lot.
-------------------- "Don't change horses in midstream, unless you spot one with longer legs" bronzeo oti Jack Davis 1410 Main St Joplin, MO 64801 www.imagemakerart.com jack@imagemakerart.com Posts: 1549 | From: Joplin, MO | Registered: Mar 2000
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Well.....from "My Viewpoint", and to simplify it...!!
This place has a range of people all the way from the very top of their chosen craft, to those just starting out with very little or no experience, and "Everything in Between......!!
A serious problem arises when someone, usaually somewhere in the middle wants to contribute, and has just enough information to be dangerous.....!!
They convey what they believe to be something helpful, based on their limited knowledge/experience, which all too often is bogus information.............
The top dogs are usually too busy with their work to supervise all this information, and the beginner ends up with a hard lesson learned.......while the rest argue about all of it.......
I try to listen to everyone, cause ya never know what tid-bit will drop out that can be used........BUT....... if i have any doubts or questions......"I" go to the ones that I "KNOW" have the correct answer to my needs.....
Just enough info to be dangerous seems to be the norm, and it's passed on freely, to be argued over and over !!
...............cj
-------------------- CJ Allan CJs Engraving 982 English Dr. Hazel, KY 42049
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I didn't realize the topic was locked till I read this post. Seems to me there is alot that can be added as I myself didn't do all that good of a job of relaying my thoughts on the matter with my usual bull in the china shop routine here. Maybe someone else can address the issue without shakin' anyone's tree as much as I did,if so go for it! I really would like to see some more input on the issue of the ethics of posting and responding here,..Rick Sacks and I had a recent discussion on just telling someone an answer instead of helping them find it out for themselves,and it was a very good one,...Not neccessarily keeping the info they need from them but making them find the answers for themselves,thus not only benifiting them with the approach to an answer but helping them to learn the learning proccess at the same time,...
-------------------- fly low...timi/NC is, Tim Barrow Barrow Art Signs Winston-Salem,NC Posts: 2224 | From: Winston-Salem,NC,USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Have to admit this whole thread raised more than a few questions in my own tiny mind, and not a small amount of paranoia.
My sign experience is not wide-ranging; mostly involved with smaller signs and vehicle work. Some of the items mentioned here lately are things I have no clue about. That having been said, I have to think that 40 plus years of slinging paint should count for something--if only figuring out what works for me. Even if in someone else's eyes it is wrong.
I guess what this all comes down to is this---who decides what is the right or wrong way to do whatever it is that is being attempted? Better ways? Probably. But is the less-than-better way flat-out wrong? Maybe not.
I might have come in on the other post with these thoughts if emotions hadn't run so high almost from the beginning. At least for now, there is a measure of civility.
Mixed feelings on the answering questions versus pointing people in the right direction to find their own answers. Leaving out the internet as a source of information--not everyone has access to a wide range of books /manuals peculiar to the trade, and not everyone can afford to put together a library of same.
Until I get flatly told I don't know what I am writing about by one or the other of the Gods, then I guess I'll just keep bumbling along with those answers to questions I feel comfortable with.
Hope that's OK with everyone.
-------------------- Bill Preston Fly Creek, N.Y. USA Posts: 943 | From: Fly Creek, N.Y. USA | Registered: Jan 2000
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Yeah, I was going to add something too - only that I'm relieved Timi and Ken spoke directly and reached an understanding. Ken, don't scare me anymore please.
SONGPAINTER Original Sign Music by Sign People NOW AVAILABLE on CD and the proceeds go to Letterville's favorite charity! Click Here for Sound Clips! Posts: 1974 | From: Orleans, MA, Cape Cod, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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a couple of recent comments on long-winded rambling posts had me self conscious about my own tendencies in that regard... but I can't help it, so here goes:
I agree that info to "help one help themselves" is still a great help to the current task at hand, & a far greater help in the long run in the "teach a man to fish" kind of way.
Last year sometime, someone pointed out the Google search "image" tab. Somehow I had never noticed that & have used it many times since then as well as the http://www.logo.nino.ru that several people here have posted from time to time. Often someone may give the old "check yer email" reply that spoonfeeds someone the solution to their question, but as always several readers may also be learning from someone elses question, so even when one reply offers a quick-fix, we all benefit from answers that help us do better research, or learn new ways to solve our own problems.
On the topic of "replies without merit" I could easily fit into CJ's "knows just enough to be dangerous" catagory. By that I mean I have done enough in this trade that I like to share what I know, & may be seen as at least an intermediate level sign guy rather then a newbie, but there are so many areas I am a newbie it could be misleading if I give advice on those topics. I tend to like to offer input, so if I have a "what I would do" comment when in actuality I have never done it, I will be sure to make that clear, or just refrain from commenting altogether.
I am working on my first HDU sandblasted sign & have been wanting to post a pic & some questions, but I've been doing my own homework first because I consider it my responsibility to look for the answers I need. I was already a little hesitant to look for easy answers here before Tim's post, & I still am. If I was one of the defensive respondents on that post, maybe that is why. I try to help whenever I can, often on topics I really do have extensive experience in. I don't want to feel inTIMidated about asking for help here, but if I do maybe it's my own fault or ego holding me back, so I'll go ahead & get that HDU topic posted, since I got a fairly educated guess of how I will proceed already anyway.
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teach a man to fish & all he wants to do is sit in a boat & drink beer.
-------------------- Jimmy Chatham Chatham Signs 468 stark st Commerce, Ga 30529 Posts: 1766 | From: Commerce, GA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I am also in the "know enuf to be dangerous" category. Most of the time I only post if I know from experience some trick to making somethin' work, OR if I just want to poke fun at somethin' and try to lighten things up (you know what I mean, Timi...hehehe).
I know this is a serious business and it can be costly to make mistakes. Lord knows I've invested quite a bit in the stack of screw-ups in the back of the shop. However, there comes a time when even the most experience people need to step back and realize that is more than one way to do anything. When I started hand-lettering, my uncle used to watch me drag a brush as if I were teaching him, but he didn't criticize my technique, he asked me why I did somethin'. Then he would show me his way. To this day, I use both: mine & his. Sure, there are some things that are just plain WRONG, but you learn the best lessons by doing it WRONG once (I do anyway!!!)
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about asking for help here, but if I do maybe it's my own fault or ego holding me back, so I'll go ahead & get that HDU topic posted, since I got a fairly educated guess of how I will proceed already anyway.
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