posted
Just curious if anyone had used one of these and could tell me how well they work. I'm just looking for something a little easier for pre-masking long graphics. I saw this in a Larry Mitchell book. Know anyone that sells these?
posted
i haven't used one of those... looks cool though
untill we got an applicator that bolted to the weed bench we had great sucess with a simple piece of polypipe
a letterhead friend who worked alone put us on to it and it is a great trick (ask bruce bowers about it)
just attach the lead edge of the appo tape (premask) to the table top an inch or so clear of your gaphic and then place the polypipe down over it... right against the roll of appo tape
push the polypipe against the roll of appo tape and it will do 2 things as it rolls across the graphic 1/ gives a reasonably even pressure to the application of appo tape to vinyl 2/ unrolls the appo tape along the length of the graphic without creases
you can use lots of different lengths and widths of polypipe but the best one we found was the same diamater as the tape it'self and of course the same length
once the premask is in place you just squeegie it down and your away
cheers gail
-------------------- Gail & Dave Hervey Bay Qld Australia
gail@roadwarriorproducts.com.au
sumtimes ya just gota! Posts: 794 | From: 552 O'Regans Creek Rd Toogoom Qld 4655 Australia | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Yes, I used one a few times years ago, in fact it still hangs up in the workshop getting in the way quite regularly. It cost far too much to just throw away I seem to recall that aligning it to run true was both wasteful and irritating. I'm sure perseverance would have helped but felt I didn't have the time with only twenty to thirty years working life left to me.
-------------------- Arthur Vanson Bucks Signs Chesham, Buckinghamshire, England arthur@buckssigns.co.uk -------------------- Posts: 805 | From: Chesham, Bucks, England | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
It looks sort of like the Slam Dunk $39.95 special that Mark Maty???????ski invented on his website- a very good invention which works well if you want to make one. Good Luck!
-------------------- "Stewey" on chat
"...there are no limits when you aim for perfection..." Jonathan Livingston Seagull Posts: 7014 | From: Highgrove via Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia | Registered: Dec 2002
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posted
Thanks for the tip Gail, I am struggling to figure out a way to keep my blood pressure down when dealing with a piece of 24" pre-mask 9 foot long. It's hard enough just getting it to come off the roll without pulling my table all over the shop, then trying to keep it off the vinyl till I want it on the vinyl. This has been a real thorn in my side. Has anyone used the Mask-Rite? Here is a pic. The concept looks feasible. I might build one myself first out of PVC and wood to see if it works.
I looks a lot like the concept Gail just mentioned. These are about $75 for a 24" model.
posted
Jim, The Gail & Dave pipe method will also work with a second roll of transfer tape of a matching width. At 24" wide, I'd be sure to stick about 6" worth of the tape that you are applying firmly to your work surface before the vinyl to hold everything in place, otherwise you may find the whole mess taking off while you're pushing. Ask me how I know this.
The Weber made table mounted tape tools are excellent, but very pricey. I cribbed an idea from a Signcraft and built my own quicky cheapo version for under $20 US. I'll see if I can't post a pic of it tomorrow.
[ August 19, 2003, 12:24 PM: Message edited by: Jonathan Androsky ]
-------------------- Jon Androsky Posts: 438 | From: Williamsport, PA | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
Jim, the maskrite in the picture is upside-down. Notice the rubber feet? Although they say it can be used that way, I find it works best otherside-up. Clamp it to the edge of a table. Put roll of masking to rest on the rollers; & so that it unravels over the top. Pull some out an inch or so. Feed that under the roller facing in to the table & pull out from underneath (roller only). Set your vinyl to be masked, pull out the masking & apply. Once you get used to it, it works real well.
For work that's longer than your table, feed it underneath. Start applying & when its time to move on, pick the graphic up & pull it off the other end of table & apply some more. Just make sure you're going straight.
[ August 19, 2003, 12:58 PM: Message edited by: Bill Cosharek ]
-------------------- Bill Cosharek Bill Cosharek Signs N.Huntingdon,Pa
bcosharek@juno.com Posts: 703 | From: N.Huntingdon, Pa, USA | Registered: Dec 1999
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posted
We built one on the end of our weed table and it is out of easily attainable materials. There was a picture of it in SignCraft in the tips & trick section one or two issues ago. Check that out. The photos are all the instruction you should need. We had one of those dealies you had a photo of and didn't care for it...couldn't get the tape go straight enough. Jane
-------------------- Bill Diaz Diaz Sign Art Pontiac IL www.diazsignart.com Posts: 2107 | From: Pontiac, IL | Registered: Dec 2001
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-------------------- Arvil Shep' Shepherd Art by Shep' -------- " Those who dance are thought to be mad by those who cannot hear the music " Posts: 1281 | From: Mt Airy NC | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
No more premask trouble since I bought a cheap 24" paper roll cutter ($25US) from Chiswick Packaging in Ontario. I don't use it as a cutter, just a roll holder. I clamp it to the table end when I need to use it, and it sits under the table in between. I don't have a pic (there is one in their catalogue), but it works really slick. The long pieces of vinyl fit through the roll holder, under the roll, and I pull it as I go, working always only about 2-3 feet away from the roll.
Their Number is 888-225-8708, product# 151-26 It comes in 18", 36" and 48" too
posted
I use the heck out of my 2bar thingy (pictured on bottom of sheps page). I use it for mostly the 30" masking, clamps to whatever table is available. Made another for the 15" stuff. The trick to mine is to have the masking pull down to the second bar then fairly parallel to the vinyl. "I" hate it when the masking comes from the top. Yesterday masked 2 14"x17' stripes (cut from 15" rolls) in one piece ... largest so far was 30"x30' in one piece ...6-8' at a time with rest on other side of thingy.
-------------------- Compulsive, Neurotic, Anti-social and Paranoid ... but basically Happy Posts: 2677 | From: Rochester, NY, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
So how do you move a 30' piece after pre-masking 6-8 feet of it. I mean the pre-mask overlap is stuck to the table and moving it means pulling more pre-mask off the roll as you are moving it. How do you keep the vinyl from sucking itself up to the pre-mask before you're ready.
I have similar set-ups I have made so I think for me it just must be a matter of experience. I have nightmares about this stuff though. I can take a piece of pre-mask streched out perfectly and layed down just above the vinyl, start to sgueegy it down and have it start what I can only describe as a strech mark wrinkle. It is just the tension of the pre-mask coming off the roll but it seems too much. I pretty much am OK with narrow stuff and I have a Weber 12" sgueegy, (not sure if it helps or not), but with 24" pre-mask, you can't squeegy it all down at once. I guess if it was easy everyone would be doing it.
Thanks for all the responses.
Here is a pic of one of the "thingy's" I built for my smaller table. It works good for smaller stuff, the 24" stuff just gets a little unmanagable for me real quick. Sure wish I was born rich.
posted
Hmmm... lots of thingies. My digicam just took a dump so I can't post a pic of mine (HEY, Get your minds out of the gutter!).
Anyhow, I built mine from two packaging tape dispensers and a pair of 2x4's nailed at 90 degrees to each other. The dispensers have been dismantled and just the worky bits are bolted through the top 2x4 with carriage bolts. Said 2x4 has holes bored out at 24", 36", & 48". the whole mess is deck screwed to the end of my 10' table. I like the tape dispensers because you can adjust the tension on the roll with a nut in the center of the roll holder, much like the Weber dispensers.
Jim, do you do long 30' runs often? If so, and you have the cash and space, you may want to consider a cold laminator like the ones used for mounting and laminating digital prints. The company that employs me produces Scotchprint graphics on a large E-stat machine (Scotchprint 2000 for those interested) and often have requests from our clients for premasked images. I regularly premask 50yd. runs through our laminator without a hitch.
-------------------- Jon Androsky Posts: 438 | From: Williamsport, PA | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
Jonathan, I haven't done anything longer than about 9 feet, but that length just about kicked my butt. I figured I must be doing something wrong and couldn't imaginge having to do something longer. I have a job now which may present that possiblity depending on how I design the artwork.
It seems everyone has, for the most part, the same basic dispensing methods, with a few exceptions, and some people like some things that others dispise. If I can come up with enough ideas I should be able to find what works for me.
I have not, for the life of me, figured out why someone would need to tension a 24" roll. I can pull my table all over the shop just trying to pull the tape off the roll. Maybe that's part of the problem, I need a heavier table.
I would still like to know how one re-postions a graphic to continuously apply pre-mask 6-8 foot at a time without messing it up. Could someone explain this one to me. Assume 24" mask with enough hung over the sides of the graphic for the mask to stick to the table. Can this be done by one person? Thanks
posted
No I don't have to mask 30' at a time often ... 20' box truck stripes often enough. Have used our roll laminator to mask stuff before on occasion but nothing really "one-piece big".
Jim, I couldn't fit that exact criteria but... here's 30' of 15" material I cut today, cut in half so I'm masking two 15"x15' pieces at the same time using 30" masking. The white part of table is 4x8 cutting mat the black line above vinyl is a 6' ruler. Tape is r-tape conform high tac. Personally I don't like masking hanging over all edges (would make more difficult) just a few inches off the end. I start with about the first 6', squeeging with a regular 3-m gold in an arch type pattern. Then pull more out (masking and vinyl), set a weight on already masked part to hold it still, squeegee down next part ... repeat. ^^notice^^, my masking comes off only about 1-3/4" above the vinyl. So it doesn't pull the vinyl up until you squeegee real close to it. Becomes a pain if your vinyl is real wavy from being rolled to long but I lay a ruler over it to hold it down.
Works well for me
-------------------- Compulsive, Neurotic, Anti-social and Paranoid ... but basically Happy Posts: 2677 | From: Rochester, NY, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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-------------------- Jimmy Chatham Chatham Signs 468 stark st Commerce, Ga 30529 Posts: 1766 | From: Commerce, GA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Ok Jim, I'm only gonna say this once. Well actually, since this is printed, you can read it however often you like.
First off. As everyone who uses masks knows, it's inevitable that you'll accumulate many rolls of different widths. Try using one that's closest to the width you need & that should eliminate most overage; or at least greatly reduce it.
The difference between your applicator & the Maskrite is that the Maskrite, when used the right way, has a ledge in front of the roller. If you followed my instructions correctly, the masking goes underneath the roller & over top of the ledge. This helps keep the mask from sagging down onto the vinyl prematurely; to some extent. If you have a long run, of course it's gonna sag. When that starts to happen, squeegee it down. Start in the center & work your way out. As long as you're pulling out perpendicular to the roller, wrinkles should be inconsequential. So what if you can't subsequently squeegee 6-8' at a time, with practice & keeping tension on the roll, you'll develop a mastery of the process. If pulling the mask moves the table, you need to secure the table better so it don't move.
-------------------- Bill Cosharek Bill Cosharek Signs N.Huntingdon,Pa
bcosharek@juno.com Posts: 703 | From: N.Huntingdon, Pa, USA | Registered: Dec 1999
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posted
Thanks Bill and everyone else. This has been a good learning experience. I have not asked alot of questions in the beginning and thought it would be better to get my hands dirty first so I had a better idea of what I didn't know. I think Mark's point about going across in an arc the width of the mask makes sense to me. I think that would help with my stretch mark problem. I also have been taping my graphics to the table to keep them straight. I don't know if this is a good idea or not. I have left a vinyl border around my weeded area to accomodate this and cut the finished product out after pre-masking. That won't work if I have to move the graphic to mask a long piece. Sometimes it hurts to look at the way you have been doing something and discover maybe you are not going about it the right way at all. I always try to humble myself enough to continue learning.
Mark, how do you keep the tape straight with the graphic for that length if you don't have any overhang?
Bill, I respect your view on the maskrite and how you have chosen to use it but according to the maskrite site, the picture I posted was in the postion they had intended it to be used in. I attached a photo from their site. It seems using it this way for any distance would pose a big problem keeping it from "walking" off the graphic. Maybe that is why you suggest using it the ohter way.
Mike, how do you use the Maskrite? As they show it here or the way Bill suggests. Bill, you have shared some good points as have all of you. I will continue to practice an hopefully not mess up any large graphics. I am building a larger table out of 2X6's and 4X4's. If I have to, I will through bolt it to the floor
posted
Jim, I just pull it straight, as your pulling you can feel/see if it's not straight before you put it down on the masking. Once the roll is on the bars it only comes off one way, 90 degrees square to the bar. (as long as the bars are paralell and straight to each other ... I also put plastic "cores" in the roll so it rides on center) Take a square to the end of tape roll and draw a line down the length of the table, that's where the tape should go (every time) ... line up vinyl along line.
-------------------- Compulsive, Neurotic, Anti-social and Paranoid ... but basically Happy Posts: 2677 | From: Rochester, NY, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Yea, that just goes to prove that suppliers & their reps don't always provide the correct solutions. I seen those pictures too, but thought it worked much better the other way. Since those pics are the only help they give, you're on your own to find out how to use it best. The inventor of Maskrite probably handed it to them & told them to figure it out & that was the best they could do; or maybe the inventor thought that was the best way too.
-------------------- Bill Cosharek Bill Cosharek Signs N.Huntingdon,Pa
bcosharek@juno.com Posts: 703 | From: N.Huntingdon, Pa, USA | Registered: Dec 1999
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posted
Thanks Mark, that pretty much answers my question. That's what I thought.
Bill, I did notice that the label on the Maskrite is right-side up in both pictures.
Before I spend money on magic tools, I will try to perfect my technique and pursue finishing my large table. I thank all of you for your contributions to my continued learning.
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