Have you ever noticed with the days of digital printing that some images such as photographs almost go unnoticed on truck lettering, for people today like to use "real" photographs.
Take a tractor for example, years ago any image that was to be added was hand painted and was mostly 2D, if you were paid enough or had the talent that was where a little airbrushing helped a lot. Now the exact tractor would be photographed and applied to the truck. somehow not as effective.
Now those images ( 2D or should i say less shading .) always seemed to show up better at further distances and higher speeds.
I see a lot of "photographs" being used nowadays in truck lettering but find it not as effective as a painted rendering in less 3D.
Kind of like new cartons vs older cartoons, the older ones appeal to me more than the newer drawn ones. The newer ones have much much more shading and are 3D compared to 2D of yesteryear.
Maybe its just the application and layout but I think sometimes less 3D is better.
Anybody else see this or am I just finding too much time on a sunday evening
edited cuz of spelling
[ August 17, 2003, 06:50 PM: Message edited by: Bob Rochon ]
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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You could say that since a vehicle IS a 3-D object, then any other 3-D objects that are added to it, should interact with that form in some way. After adding the new 3-D object, the vehicles form changes, to include the new form, this becoming a hybrid. Or a new sculpture.
Most 3-D pictures I have seen on vehicles do not appear to take the form of the vehicle into consideration, so they end up looking pasted on, which they are. Also much of what I see doesn't have the colors working right; that is the objects don't have the right shading to make them look like they are actually next to the vehicle. I hate it when I see some of these wraps..when it looks like they could have stuck the same thing on a VW or a Ford van, or whatever happened to be next, cause it didn't matter.
2-D lettering and graphics seem to fit a vehicle better to my eye, with maybe some judicious shading.
Man, that's way too wordy...am I making sense?
-------------------- Jeff Ogden 8727 NE 68 Terr. Gainesville FL, 32609 Posts: 2138 | From: 8827 NE 68 Terr Gainesville Fl 32609 | Registered: Aug 2002
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With stock photos and images, signs and vehicles soon start to look just like large scale adverts from the pages of a magazine. I find photo-realistic bread and flowers particularly naff. Slick but soulless. Okay if that's what you're after, but I prefer the more naive 'signwriterly' look every time.
-------------------- Arthur Vanson Bucks Signs Chesham, Buckinghamshire, England arthur@buckssigns.co.uk -------------------- Posts: 805 | From: Chesham, Bucks, England | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
I have been saying often that all that digital imagery just muddies up the impact, where nothing seems predominant. Reminds me of an occasional feature of Signcraft, plain but nice layouts.
Same as George Perkins topic last week on the two truck lettering layouts in SignBuilder. The plainer one (albeit real plain with barcode) worked better than the crappy digital lettering.
A well exectuted layout, with even a simple graphic, professionally rendered, will outshine most of the digital crap out there. This being said by a larger format ink jet and Gerber Edge owner.
-------------------- Wright Signs Wyandotte, Michigan Posts: 2785 | From: Wyandotte, MI USA | Registered: Jan 1999
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posted
I had read this post earlier in the day & just sat down to give a reply. Glenn Taylor beat me to the punch line... I believe it is about artistic ability & skill, no matter what the medium.
The fanciest materials & the most modern, up to date equipment or techniques do not make for a good or effective sign. It's what comes from the brain that counts.
A good design can hide lots of poor quality workmanship, but the best workmanship in the world can't hide a poor design, no matter what.
-dan
-------------------- Dan Sawatzky Imagination Corporation Yarrow, British Columbia dan@imaginationcorporation.com http://www.imaginationcorporation.com
Being a grampa is one of the the most wonderful things in the world!!! Posts: 8740 | From: Yarrow, B.C. Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Just an after thought, and Dan & Glenn make a good point but maybe its just the contrast of a 2d image against a real 3D object that catches my eye.
Everything around us is 3D in reality so another 3D image would just blend in sometimes.
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
This discussion reminds me of some jobs I've seen.
A local pestcontrol company had their minivan done up a couple years ago. It was so busy with various 3D/photographic images, you couldn't tell what was what from 30ft away. What was worse is that you had to stare at the van for a few minutes just to figure out the name on the van.
Then I contrast that to some stuff Doug Allen has done, particularly his tailgate stuff. It was completely appropriate, attractive and legible. (maybe Doug can be so kind as to post the pics of what I'm talking about)
I love how Bob used 3D for his Wackell project.
Yes, there has been an explosion of 3D and photographic work lately. Its to be expected. But the problem is the same problem we've had all along -- poor designers with too much time and money on their hands.
posted
Rochon's Righton. Simple can still be the best sometimes.
Being simple doesn't have to mean Helvetica in black vinyl on white background. Clarity is what I think Bob is getting at more. And I would tend to agree---the lettering is to get the meat of the message out there. The digital element is more the MADE YOU LOOK sort of thing, whether it's a racy denim jeans ad or whatever.
There's alot of BAAAAAD digital out there. Washed out colouring, WAY TOO BUSY layouts and the message is lost.
I know someone who does lots of large digital work. On may jobs, the image is the 'background', and the the logo or the message is applied overtop as cut vinyl still.
posted
I hope you will allow me to disagree. I think photo-realistic graphics are, quite simply, less-appropriate for the sign and truck branch of advertising. (Sorry if I've misinterpreted your original point, Bob) Sure, design skills will affect the quality of both photo-realistic and simple or silhouette graphic forms, but will have little effect on their general suitability for the task at hand. You can have too much of a good thing, and detail is certainly one of those things. May I emphasize that I'm stating personal preferences, not universal truths.
-------------------- Arthur Vanson Bucks Signs Chesham, Buckinghamshire, England arthur@buckssigns.co.uk -------------------- Posts: 805 | From: Chesham, Bucks, England | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
I have to agree with you Bob, I like 2D work, but am experimenting more and more with my Edge but as a compliment to 2D work rather than confusing it.
I got sent these pics yesterday some are funny, the Merdedes van shows how the company name disappears with the car graphic, the others are abit of fun.
posted
Aurthur no I beleive you have my idea right on, and I'm not sure if I'm communicating this correct either.
All I can see is say a riding lawnmower tractor, now take a photgraph of it and put it on a van, Next take a van and hand paint the same tractor with solid colors, even airbrushed shades it has so much more impact, The rendered form has more punch than the photograph to me.
and henry has it. the santa claus even f it was digital has punch, the van is cool but not as much, and the car..........well thats just way too cool....oops did I say that? lol
[ August 18, 2003, 01:11 PM: Message edited by: Bob Rochon ]
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Well I hav'nt posted in a while, just reading all the posts, about what people should and should'nt do and say, so I thought that I'd post a couple of Pics related to this topic. Digital is here to stay, like it or leave it, I know that the tradtional artists don't like it, but it is effective. I for one do know how to Paint, Airbrush, and hand letter, but I just don't have the time anymore, I really don't, that's sad but true. I do like the old type of Advertising, those Newpaper ads, and Highway Billbords were a work of art, but they are part of history....but maybe they'll make a comeback, it would be nice.
So here are a couple of 3-d jobs that I just finished, I think that they are effective, my customers think that they are effective, cause their customers tell them that they see their vehicles on the road.
-------------------- "Keep Positive"
SIGNS1st. Neil Butler Paradise, NF Posts: 6277 | From: St. John's NF Canada | Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Neil, I always have trouble with the photoisland images, but usually I can see them by right clicking the red X & choosing properties to access the URL. On this batch, I wasn't able to get to them that way either thought I'd mention it in hopes you could make them accessible. (Letterville has our own space for uploading pics now don't we?)
I have seen some of the sort of 3D that I think is along the lines of what Bob is referring to, & would have to agree that although an image may be asthetically pleasing on its own, or in another media, it may look awful on a vehicle.
I'm honored to see my name mentioned... ...not remembering much in the way of "tailgate work" I fear Glenn might be thinking of someone elses work, but since it is a shape that could go on a tailgate maybe he meant this design I did:
posted
Exactly. Simulating 3D in a 3D world doesn't always work. Going REAL 3D is great though.
I think alot of what's going on with that is web & video design styles trying to be migrated to other advertising areas. Doesn't work as well. When you're sitting in front of a monitor, you're almost in another world, isolated from reality. The simulation works there.
I like to say, when you're designing a sign: The world is your background. Or the truck, or whatever.
-------------------- Glenn S. Harris
....back in the sign trade full time. Posts: 293 | From: Baton Rouge, LA, USA | Registered: Jul 2001
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That last picture is a perfect example of how a 3-D graphic can become part of a new sculpture when added to the original "form"(the car)...you get a third thing to look at. Really dynamic !
-------------------- Jeff Ogden 8727 NE 68 Terr. Gainesville FL, 32609 Posts: 2138 | From: 8827 NE 68 Terr Gainesville Fl 32609 | Registered: Aug 2002
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thought I'd mention it in hopes you could make them accessible. (Letterville has our own space for uploading pics now don't we?)![[Thanks]](graemlins/thanks.gif)
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