posted
In a recent post about using one shot on canvas I saw several responses all of which were academically incorrect,not to mention basically very bad advice. This is just the tip of the iceburg so to speak and by no means the only example I speak of here. I have seen it many times since I have started using this board.
Lets go back to the "letterhead Ideals". Is the response and or advice you give based on fact or experience? Can you substanciate your advice from decades of wisdom or does it just work for you in your climate and marketplace? Does your advice come from generations of written wisdom and formally educated,published sources? Does the advice you offer up actually apply to the question asked or is it just your opinion? Do you have any formal education in painting to back up your opinion?
Alot of the responses I see of late are from relative newcomers to the trade and may not be very good advice,yet I see many here who answer any post they can without any thought as to cause and effect of bad advice. Just because we are part of a movement does not always make us right,myself included. The best example I can think of is pricing,...what works in one area of the country(or the planet) might not be anywhere practical for another yet we persist in giving our opinions to folks halfway across the globe in another marketplace with totally different factors of supply and demand.
I am not trying to toot my own horn here,just trying to enlighten folks to the reality of cause and effects of advice given without forethought to the intended use of it and where. I was fortunate to attend a university and recieve the major portion of a formal education on the fine art of painting before I entered my trade and apprenticed sign painting and pictorals with qualified educated journeymen as instructors.This is not always the best avenue of approach for some but it worked for me and I have found it enlightening in further studdies on the subject.Many times I have worked for uneducated individuals whose attitude was that this is the way so and so taught me and that has to be correct,....why? Because someone has done something wrong for decades and have become adept at doing something wrong very well with many years of practice does that make it right and correct? I worked for one guy who was taught to use gas for thinner and there was no way I could convince him that it was bad practice because it had worked for him for decades,...did that make his efforts right? Not hardly.
On the same note I see many folks here ask the simplest of questions that have been adressed in all, if not a vast majority of the trade manuals I have read and yet very few offer the advice to read further on the subject,with examples of literature for enlightenment.I have been fortunate to have access to many old and new trade manuals on the art of sign making and continually see conflicting advice given without respect to its merit,.I think the old analogy of giving a man a fish and he'll eats for a day ,..teach him to fish and he will eat many days comes to mind here,...
50% of all posted questions here could be avoided if all of the askers would stop and take time to read up on the subject they are asking about. There are instructions on almost all products on the market and help sections in almost all of the software programs people use these days.Sometimes they are a little hard to read but it is still a no brainer to break out the old magnifier and look past our noses.Almost all products these days have brochures available with proper instructions for their use.All ya have to do is ask ,....
Sorry for the ramble folks, but along with the short tempers and name calling maybe we could take one more consideration and once again think before we type,,Is our response advice with,or without merit?
edited this to change the word my to our in the last sentence,....
I always enjoy reading your post and know I can trust your advice. You take the time to think things through before giving advice or your opinion. Sometimes I skip checking the Bullboard for a few days to get away from the turmoil and bad advice. But during those days, I also miss valuable information. I started learning the signpainting trade 20 years ago from two signpainters who had been in business, each, over 30 years. I still have a lot to learn and hope I never quit learning. My one mentor said he use to hire snappers that were in town, usually just for the summer, and he learned alot from their techniques. He had other employees over the years and they all traded ideas and learned from each other. Most of the people I run into today are part of the vinyl world of the sign trade. I feel I have to depend on books and this board for my continued learning of the old ways (and new). I really miss working with my one friend who is now 86 and has retired. He taught me a lot and many of his ways are mentioned on this board by the Great Ones of the biz. I agree that one must be careful about advice that is given. I feel it is a great responsibility to give "good" advice on something that can effect a persons means of making a living.
-------------------- Pam Eddy Niles, MI ple@qtm.net Posts: 460 | From: Michigan | Registered: Dec 2000
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Well Tim, I guess a lot of the advice here is worth what one pays for it.
When I ask or inquire about a subject, procedure or future purchase among my friends and family, I just need input. Out of the mix I add that to my own thoughts and findings on the subject and procede from there. It would be foolish to take any advice as gospel from just one person, educated or not, and not do a lot more research and inquiries.
Gee, I hear one shot white makes a great coffee creamer, trust me. It is in that vein I would take all advice.
-------------------- Wright Signs Wyandotte, Michigan Posts: 2785 | From: Wyandotte, MI USA | Registered: Jan 1999
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I havn't seen a lot of blatently incorrect advice given. Maybe I'm too ignorant to know whats right or wrong. To the extent anyone notices it happening, I hope thay would step in with the counterpoint. I would also hope ALL information is taken as the giver's opinion rather than gospel. While stepping in, it would go a lot smoother if we would all T-H-I-N-K about not only our advice, but our presentation of it. Is what we are typing T-thoughtful, H-helpful, I-important, N-necessary, and K-kind. (your post is ).
SONGPAINTER Original Sign Music by Sign People NOW AVAILABLE on CD and the proceeds go to Letterville's favorite charity! Click Here for Sound Clips! Posts: 1974 | From: Orleans, MA, Cape Cod, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I did take your advice.....I needed a quick fix and you helped me realize I need to do a lot more homework! I always believe if it's worth doing, it's worth doing right! Thanks for being around!
Joe, Makin Chips and Havin Fun!
-------------------- Joe Cieslowski Connecticut Woodcarvers Gallery P.O.Box 368 East Canaan CT 06024 jcieslowski@snet.net 860-824-0883 Posts: 2345 | From: East Canaan CT 06024 | Registered: Nov 2001
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Timi's right...and he speaks with the trustworthy authority of many years of experience. He's got alot more knowledge than many in the sign biz...He's a real ARTIST and he knows his stuff. He's one of the first people I ask when I have a technical question...especially about paint. After being around here a while, I've learned who to listen to...but I keep my ears & eyes open for new comers who display their expertise too. I also agree that reading good resources on a subject is always a good idea. Now we have the vast world of internet information at our fingertips too...of which this location is a valuable component of... Thanks Timi for your valuable observance...
-------------------- Nancie W. Phillips White Dove Painting Studio 74 Dacula Road, Dacula, GA 30019 678-887-3339
posted
This is not about me,....my point was best put onto the last sentence,....is the advice we post with or without merit and does it apply to the question asked? Joe Rees hit the nail on the head much better than I did thanks Joe. I'm not saying everyone needs a degree or 20 years of experience to share,...just that we should consider cause and effect before we post,....Everyone is on the band wagon as of late to think before we post,...I say read the question twice ,...then think, then if you have what you consider worthy advice post it,...
posted
Since any advice or suggestions I've posted in response to requests for help, are not backed up by years of academic research, or by any formal studies, I guess that would make them pretty much worthless or meaningless.
In future, I will defer to those who may be far more knowledgeable and academically qualified. Since it would appear that such individuals are few and far between in this profession, questions or requests for help may be a long wait before someone "qualified" choses to make time from their busy schedule to respond. My limited experience shall preclude me from further participation, since I wouldn't wish to unintentionally supply anyone with bad or faulty advice. Adios.
-------------------- Ken Henry Henry & Henry Signs London, Ontario Canada (519) 439-1881 e-mail: kjmlhenry@rogers.com
Why do I get all those on-line offers to sell me Viagara, when the only thing hardening is my arteries ? Posts: 2684 | From: London,Ontario, Canada | Registered: Feb 1999
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Ken, sorry that you feel that way but your response in my opinion is just another example of the over-reaction seen on this board. I think you miss the point(or maybe I have). I read this board at least twice day and have learned very much. I am a novice in this business and most time defer to those who know more than I. I do on occasion post but often I see answers to post that are the same. Any way thanks Timi for the thought provoking post.
posted
Ken,..Please read my response to this post before you take offense,.....especially the part about everyone not needing a degree or 20 years of experience to offer up good advice,..this isn't about anyone in particular and it damn sure isn't meant to discourage folks from helping our peers in the industry. It was meant as a reminder to think before we offer up advice that may not be all that good,...The road to hell is paved with good intentions,...,.
-------------------- fly low...timi/NC is, Tim Barrow Barrow Art Signs Winston-Salem,NC Posts: 2224 | From: Winston-Salem,NC,USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Ken Henry, you better GIT your 1752 post butt back in here right this minute! <said with mock consternation>
If you think part of Timi's post is directed at you personally, you really need to clear that up - either in this thread or with him privately - but there's no way I want to lose your input here. Not even temporarily. I rank your posts among the top in tact and politeness, and your input is usually right on. If this topic upsets you that much there must be something pretty important underlying that reaction. If you got a bad feeling, others might have too. If you can identify what it kicked up in you, maybe we can learn something.
SONGPAINTER Original Sign Music by Sign People NOW AVAILABLE on CD and the proceeds go to Letterville's favorite charity! Click Here for Sound Clips! Posts: 1974 | From: Orleans, MA, Cape Cod, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Rosemary's been reading the board every few days and thought this was important enough for me to throw my unwanted opinion in here.
You want to know why Ken responded the way he did? Because this entire post is pure bull****. You want to intimidate members and keep them from expressing an opinion? This is the perfect way to accomplish it. I'm as well educated as anyone here and I WELCOME opinions on ANY approach to a subject no matter how far out in left field it is. A lot of these young people want to join in and test the water. Let 'em test the water. Don't pull the damned plug. You think someone just supplied some bum info? THEN SAY SO! How are they going to learn? Few of them have time to go "read a book" if they're putting in every hour trying to feed their family. THIS is where they have to chance to learn with interaction. Don't start some crapola thread designed, intentionally or otherwise, to stymie those who may not be as well educated or simply as friggin' old as you are. The last thing this board needs is intimidation based on fear of someone embarrassing them about their possible lack of knowledge. Screw that. Post your best shot at an answer and if it's "dead wrong", then let the intelligentia straighten it out. Now............. DON'T make me turn Rosemary loose in here!! I'm gonna go outside and shoot something now, which is where I've been for the past 4 days.
heh.................
k31
[ August 17, 2003, 08:21 PM: Message edited by: pierre ]
-------------------- Pierre St.Marie Stmariegraphics Kalispell,Mt www.stmariegraphics.com ------------------ Plan on knowing everything before I die and time's running out! Posts: 4223 | From: Kalispell,Mt 59903 | Registered: Mar 2000
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Pierre,..I never intended for anyone to perceive this post as attempt to keep people from stating their opinions,..YOU said that. It was not intended to be detrimental to folks participating in this forum openly ,..you perceived it that way,....As for folks not having time to read up on the subject of their trade and being too busy trying to feed their family,..then they will be the victims of their own stupidity.Hopefully this is not the ethics of any trade and or profession as the thought of a doctor taking that attitude is kind of damned scary,as it is with almost any other profession! My point in effect was I personally feel far too many folks don't take time to think and read carefully before they start typing,...If they did there would be alot more valuable responses here and alot less finger pointing and slaying of imaginary dragons that never existed in the first place,.... If you feel as though this is crap, then you are entitled to your opinion,...
-------------------- fly low...timi/NC is, Tim Barrow Barrow Art Signs Winston-Salem,NC Posts: 2224 | From: Winston-Salem,NC,USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I think I can see the point Timi was making, and appreciate that he took the time to make his feelings known
no matter what your experience level is in any aspect of life common sense dictates that if you require answers the first step should be to ask questions
we ask questions all the time when faced with the new and unknown, and our answers can come from the most varied of sources
books, teachers, friends, the internet, life experiance, the mailman (grin)
from the information gathered and the advice given we can then accept or reject content based on our own judgment of the source
but what if our judgment is coloured by the belief that the sourse is unquestionable
we would surly be prone to failure because of lack of investigation on our own part
it is very easy and sadly human nature, when faced with something new to us, to automatically believe that those who have gone before us hold the status of being unquestionable sourses
I have been here (on this board) long enough to feel confidant that if I had a carving question I would know who to ask Likewise if I had a screen printing or design question the folk here, that come to mind as advanced players in that area, would be the people who's answers I would look for first
I would also like to think that I am not so arrogant as to disregard the responses from folk I don't know, or are new to this place, who just may have happened upon information that could help me in my time of need
but with all that I still should not expect, that with no effort on my part, I can just have experiance spoon fed to me... that would teach me nothing.
and worse still make me vulnerable to incorrect information being taken as gospel
wether it is in our work life or in the broader world we live in, all input is of value as long as it is filtered through our own common sense.
cheers gail
-------------------- Gail & Dave Hervey Bay Qld Australia
gail@roadwarriorproducts.com.au
sumtimes ya just gota! Posts: 794 | From: 552 O'Regans Creek Rd Toogoom Qld 4655 Australia | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Sorry Pierre, This entire post is not pure bull, any more than your contribution to it is. Timi's got a point. You've got a point. We've ALL got points, and you're right, that includes the most junior novices among us.
All I took from the initial post was if we're going to state things as absolute truths then we should check our facts - a responsibility that applies to all skill levels.
I want to say more, and I think something needs to be said, but I can't find the words. A lot of people are very testy these days, so ready to fight. Is it just the heat? May be, because I know for certain we re all here for the same primary reason, to help each other out. And thats where the words fail me - Trying to defend Timi, or call Ken back into the discussion, or cool off Pierre just turn to gibberish when I try to type them out. Man, I need to get to a meet quick.
I like that Gail had to say - very cool - I bet she was in some air conditioned room when she collected all that together. I particularly liked the last part "whether it is in our work life or in the broader world we live in, all input is of value as long as it is filtered through our own common sense".
SONGPAINTER Original Sign Music by Sign People NOW AVAILABLE on CD and the proceeds go to Letterville's favorite charity! Click Here for Sound Clips! Posts: 1974 | From: Orleans, MA, Cape Cod, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Persons ask questions, get answers then do it the way they want anyway. Persons who lack experience take on projects they no nothing about, expecting to get their answers from th BB. Even the best of'm aren't considerate of information given to them for free, and nothings free
-------------------- HotLines Joey Madden - pinstriping since 1952 'Perfection, its what I look for and what I live for'
quote: It was not intended to be detrimental to folks participating in this forum openly ,..you perceived it that way,....
I did not take any great offense to the opening post, although I did percieve a few tangental overtones that bothered me. As I usually do, I take part responsibility for my perceptions. I also attribute part responsibility to the source, but in no way do I assume said offensive overtones are intentional. I think any good communication skills are developed, in part, through close attention to the perceptions of ones listeners.
By taking some responsibility for my perceptions as a listener, & trying to always give the benefit of the doubt to a source (Tim in this case), I feel that I have a fairly good grasp of the intent of this topic. I also feel that Ken's reaction was coming from perceiving the same overtones I was detecting. I would guess he is making his point with sarcasm, & is no more likely to be checking out of here then any of us other 'heads. (I hope I'm right Ken, because I also find your posts to high among those of interest to me)I would also guess, that if anyone missed Ken's point, Pierre's is not so subtle, but very likely about the same.
quote: As for folks not having time to read up on the subject of their trade and being too busy trying to feed their family,..then they will be the victims of their own stupidity
I recently watched a documentary on illiterate adults in America. One foreigner who was working 3 menial labor jobs was trying to find time to learn to read. It is a very real & common occurance when a person has the potential to do great things, but is held back by their current committments as well as the hours in a day.
I've paid for consultants to train me on software, & I don't care how great someone can read, comprehend, & apply tech manual book knowledge, you can learn the key bits of information you need up to 10 or 100 times faster by asking someone who knows instead of thumbing through extensive documentation covering the whole gamut of something you are just now scratching the surface of.
A lot of us pay to be here, & if someone is working 40 - 80 hours a week even as a quicky-sticky vinyl guy, or an entry-level employee at a franchise, the fact that they may be aware of a sign-making technique outside the scope of their present training & they are willing to inquire about how to perform that technique makes that person a "Letterhead" in my book. They have every right to ask for that information here.
Weather Ken's reply was sarcastic or not. He responded as if Tim was somehow in charge here, and as if, by simply stating his ideas, they had somehow become the new law of Letterville. I think, in an ironic way, that is a perfect example of part of Tims original point. Letterville itself has a level of integrity & a far-reaching reputation beyond that of most of us as individuals. When something is posted here, there may be those who would attach an unjustified measure of credibility to the post, so it does seem important to be clear in our posts when are offering tried & true solutions vs. opinions, here-say, or just a good guess.
quote:It is more helpful in the long run to teach a man to fish, but sometimes telling him to go jump in a lake is no help at all.
[ August 18, 2003, 01:16 PM: Message edited by: Doug Allan ]
I do not have 20 years of sign experiance nor am I familar with the "Letterhead Ideals", but I do like to cruise the boards and read the different approaches so many people have to the same problem. I, by no means, know half of what you people do and I think I can learn alot here. I have posted here only twice but I can understand how Timi's post could be taken offensively.
Perhaps it would be best if when a question is asked, the poster could explain what research they did before they decided to post along with a list of resources. Otherwise, we could assume they did not research the question and they could be labeled lazy by some.
And if the kind folks who respond to such questions could tell us your resume' along with a list of references, the questioner and the readers would be more inclined to believe your advice. Or maybe answer with an Amazon link to the many sign manuals so we may learn to feed ourselves. That must be the only way to quantify any advice as being "gospel".
Or ... we could (as so many suggested) ask and answer questions freely but with the responsibiilty that most adults show and let the readers choose to what advice to follow. I could even imagine someone debating some of the advice so everyone could learn a more efficeint technique or more reliable method.
I also hope that adults can recognize the difference between sarcaism and elitism.
Also please note that the above is my opinion and no one is to take it as fact.
-------------------- Jim Jacobsen Michael's Signs, Inc. 3914 South Memorial Racine, WI 53403 Posts: 6 | From: Racine, WI | Registered: Aug 2003
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Well, here goes another well intended post heading down the crapper. I've gone back and reread this post a bunch of times trying to see where Timi is coming off as an "elitist". I just can't see it. I can't see it, cause I'm at a disadvantage here. I've known Timi for six or seven years now. A more down to earth guy would be hard to find. I guess if one wanted to , you could read something between the lines, but isn't that where all the trouble usually starts? Pierre suggested letting somebody post bad information and then correct them. I've seen that one happen more times than I care to remember and it usually gets ugly. Plus, what happens if the guy that asks the question uses the bad information before it gets corrected? What is so wrong with requesting somebody actually know what the correct answer is before posting ?
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
posted
Here's just-a-thought... Do as yee wish and harm none...
Why not try this out and see how it fits, or works, or feels?
Everybody takes care of Themselves. Nobody takes anything personal, without asking that person "Is this what you meant?" ...and everyone says what they mean (word for word) and mean what they say (word for word).
I have lived by these rules for the past 9 years, and when I apply them, they really work for me. Life is ALL good, even when the big sh** is happening.
The finding my way out of the fog side of the Moon
-------------------- The Moon aka: Stefenie Harris Moonlight Designs Pollock Pines, CA learnin' somethin' new every day! stefenie@comcast.net Posts: 550 | From: Pollock Pines, CA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I ment no disrespect but since I have not had the pleasure of knowing Timi, I can only get my own opinon on what he wrote without knowing the personality behind it.
If he ment only to be certain of your answer before posting then that is easy enough to understand and no harm can come of it. But perhaps to them, they are certain. Experiance is as important as knowledge and many times, there is no ONE correct way to do things ... only different.
But I read Timi's post as people, without the knowledge or experiance that he has, are deliberately posting wrong information.
quote:Alot of the responses I see of late are from relative newcomers to the trade and may not be very good advice,yet I see many here who answer any post they can without any thought as to cause and effect of bad advice.
Or, that so many questions are unnecesary posted by people who did not bother to research it first.
quote:On the same note I see many folks here ask the simplest of questions that have been adressed in all, if not a vast majority of the trade manuals I have read
I do not know the people here well enough to have to "read between the lines". If that is not what he ment, then I appologise to Timi for misreading his post.
I am going to leave this thread now to avoid any bad feelings. Last thing I want to do as a new member is step on any toes.
-------------------- Jim Jacobsen Michael's Signs, Inc. 3914 South Memorial Racine, WI 53403 Posts: 6 | From: Racine, WI | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
I think I understand what Timi was originally getting at.... however, I think the way he chose to make his point has drawbacks. He is trying to generalize rather than make specific comments, and that usually complicates things.
Does he mean me? Am I the one who answers too quickly without enough experience?
Probably not, but there's no way for me to know, since he hasn't said so. If i was already feeling defensive today, I might think so.
To keep a discussion honest and useful, you need to take risks. (Timi took a risk just posting this topic. ) I think a better way to correct problems is as they occur. Either respond to a post with better advice or email the person who's posting you disagreed with and discuss it with them directly.
As for the digression into reading books... well, I'm like Timi -- I love to read old sign painters manuals. I realize that a lot of people don't though, or they don't have access to them. Either way, if I can offer some help, I try to. The books are interesting artifacts... but they aren't always the most useful. Materials and words have changed (say, where does one get a camel rigger these days? Iran or QH&F? you need another book just to tell you what the new name of the old thing is).
-------------------- :: Scooter Marriner :: :: Coyote Signs :: :: Oakland, CA :: :: still a beginner :: :: Posts: 1356 | From: Oakland (and San Francisco) | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
OK, I must confess to being the first to throw out the word "elitist" & I also confess to deleting the sentance containing it this morning. (Maybe that's not what the edit button should be for but...)
My apologies to Tim if anything in my post seemed personal. Though I referred to "hints of elitist mentality", I hoped I was speaking to some of our perceptions & not Tim's intent. Tim, I have not met you either, but like I had said of Ken's posts, I'd like to add that I always enjoy reading your posts, & recognize you as a seasoned pro who has shared a vast amount of good information in the time I've been here, & several times to questions of my own.
I disagree with your comment on falling victim to ones stupidity, but it was my own arrogance that colored my reply. Another midnight post that sounded bad the next morning
posted
I read somewhere that I should be thinning one shot with one percent low fat milk. Well, I've been doing this for about six years now and my signs look like chit. Any help here?...... just a little joke folks.
Timi, I hear you loud and clear!
-------------------- Rob Larkham Sign Techniques Inc. Chicopee, Ma Posts: 607 | From: Chester, Ma. | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
OHMIGOSH!! I am SO SO sorry!! I shouldn't have been on the net myself, and I read Timi's post and talked to Dad about it. BIG mistake!! Please, Timi, understand that our news lately has been very bad, and he's finally so down that he's lashing out at the whole world. I'm so sorry, Timi. Please don't be too angry with him. You know this isn't really how he normally is. He won't be back for a little while. I didn't mean for him to come in here.
posted
Not to worry Rosemary.......... Any of us that can even begin to realize the stress your dad's been under, have have absolutly no problem with anything he posts........ We just wish there was something we could do to help relieve that stress...............
Take care.................cj
-------------------- CJ Allan CJs Engraving 982 English Dr. Hazel, KY 42049
I can empathize a little bit with what Pierre is going through. We just found out that my mother-in-law has cancer. My wife says she's not letting it get to her, but I can see its tearing her up inside. Sometimes I think not being able to help the ones we love is worse than the disease itself. It makes us do things that we wouldn't ordinarily do just from the shear frustration.
posted
I was actually pretty impressed with Timi's post here.
Furthermore, his diplomatic skills were outstanding.
If we are indeed aiming towards purveying information within our trade...we all have a responsability to at least TRY to spread truth.
There's no "good housekeeping seal of approval" for the sign trade..(go figure, plumber's have to be licsensed), so we need to take advice when we ask for it, and hope it's good advice.
There's also no substitute for seat time. The people here who have been around the block more frequently, have possibly tried more routes to the same end result, and hopefully have refined them. So maybe when someone posts an inquiry, they need to think through what they're asking first. Be specific. And when someone takes the time to post a reply, perhaps explain what they're basing it on.
There's a big difference between "knowledge sharing", something I've always believed to be a foundation of the letterhead/pinhead movement...and trying to learn the entire sign trade online. It's really a shame how few people have the oppotunity to serve apprenticeships anymore. There was nothing quite like learning the trade from an experienced tradesperson. The computer age, coupled with the entire world's "Walmart-instant gratification mentality" has made "paying your dues" a little less previlent.
I've seen some misinformation here, and if I disagreed with something that was posted, and was really sure about my facts (like the clearcoating OVER SignGold Pierre..hehehe), then I try to dispell the hearsay, and present a solution.
Timi was dead-nuts right, and I think some people mistook his concerns as arroghance.
Thanks Tim.
Pleasant Mondays all....
keep on keepin' on
Brian Briskie
Posts: 465 | From: / | Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
Mr. Tim's post was pretty good. Not as harsh as it could've been & nowhere near as condecending or hostile as 30% of the posts here can be sometimes.
Every now & then in most internet forums, one of the old timers has to drop in & tighten everybody up a bit. I certainly doubt that Tim thinks that most people are really worried too much about what they post or that he thinks this post is going to change the world.
That being said: I know I'm just a visitor, but I've been visiting for about 5 years & I can pretty much tell who the old school sign painters are. So, it's not too hard to tell which advice is good & which is not.
-------------------- Glenn S. Harris
....back in the sign trade full time. Posts: 293 | From: Baton Rouge, LA, USA | Registered: Jul 2001
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SONGPAINTER Original Sign Music by Sign People NOW AVAILABLE on CD and the proceeds go to Letterville's favorite charity! Click Here for Sound Clips! Posts: 1974 | From: Orleans, MA, Cape Cod, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Since a couple of you have speculated as to the reason I have chosen to no longer participate by answering questions, I feel that perhaps I should indicate just where this came from. If you read the entire second paragraph of Timi's initial post, he asks some very pointed questions regarding one's "qualifications" to answer requests for help etc. I took his test quite seriously, and came to the conclusion that if I answered each of his questions truthfully, I'd score less than 50%. I also gave serious "second consideration" before posting my reply. First, I thought to myself...he can't really be serious about this. However, past history had indicated to me that Timi is and was a " say what you mean, and mean what you say" sort of guy. Also, the fact that he'd included this as an entire paragraph, pretty much has me convinced that he's dead serious about the qualification level of respondants....otherwise why would he devote an entire paragraph to those questions?
Well, call it what you will, but he's absolutely managed to convince me that I no longer have any business answering questions or offering advice here. I realize that the climate and direction that Letterheads takes does change and is an evolving thing. It's now time for me to withdraw and let others offer their wisdom to others.
Thanks all for your past company, but it's past time that I depart. Bye.
-------------------- Ken Henry Henry & Henry Signs London, Ontario Canada (519) 439-1881 e-mail: kjmlhenry@rogers.com
Why do I get all those on-line offers to sell me Viagara, when the only thing hardening is my arteries ? Posts: 2684 | From: London,Ontario, Canada | Registered: Feb 1999
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quote: Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level, and then beat you with their experience.
Hey Ken, to quote an already overused phrase, you gotta do what ya gotta do. I don't remember if that tag line was always on your posts or if its a new one... makes ya wonder.
Knowing what the intended use of the canvas painting was would have brought clarity to this situation.
Still, having said that, there is a value in what Timi said, that is, to make me cautious about my advice.
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
Ken, It was not my intentions to make anyone "qualify" their help. My intention was to instill the yearn for knowledge of our trade beyond the act of typing out simple questions and expecting a half dozen correct responses,within the hour here. I didn't intend for my wording to discourage anyone from participating here least of all you. If my wording was intimidating and or made you or anyone else feel inadequate with your knowledge of your trade,That can change with a little study and practice. That was my intention to rattle some cages and instill that yearn for that knowledge,not to discourage those that feel as though they should have studied more. There is a wealth of written knowledge on our trade and associated artforms,...all one has to do is seek out the knowledge.Sometimes my tact isn't all that good and due to the very cause and effect of my tact you suddenly are questioning your self worth here,..that was not my intentions,...stop it please,....my intent if anything was to ask folks to think clearly about the cause and effect of their advice before they give it.
Pierre, Hang in there dude, I applaud you for your efforts to confront what made Ken feel this way, You obviously are a true friend. My intentions were not to belittle your opinion,just keep the direction of the discussion here focused,...once again my tact fails me,... But I get the distinct feeling you had rather me say what I think straight out though than to candy coat it just to please the majority,...
-------------------- fly low...timi/NC is, Tim Barrow Barrow Art Signs Winston-Salem,NC Posts: 2224 | From: Winston-Salem,NC,USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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