posted
I'll be helping on a Harley Davidson project with the epoxy resin method. The resin will be used as a base for the letters to be surface gilded. From some of the discussions I've seen on this board lately, ALOT of you haven't tried this stuff yet or don't even know about it. At some time at the meet, I will show some application techniques and special effects that can be done with this resin.
For regular flat letters on sandblasted HDU, there is no finishing method as fast and durable. Come on over to Tomahawk and learn how to make more money with HDU.
-------------------- Dave Sherby "Sandman" SherWood Sign & Graphic Design Crystal Falls, MI 49920 906-875-6201 sherwoodsign@sbcglobal.net Posts: 5406 | From: Crystal Falls, MI USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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posted
Dave, I'd love to come to Tomahawk, but it doesn't seem feasible at this time with all the work piling up.
I do have an HDU question, tho, for you or anyone who can answer it. I've heard of a method for finishing HDU...raised surface, carved letters, where the HDU is preped and pre-finished prior to carving. It's then masked over, carved through the masking and the balance of the sign is finsihed with the second color or gilding. Well, that's the procedure, but could anyone elaborate more, indicate precautions or an alternate means to accomplish same? My plan, HDU with FSC-88 prep or high-built primers (please tell me more about the high-builds...)then spray with One Shot(s)...alternate paint option suggestions acceptable.
Thanks.
-------------------- Fran Maholland Pro Sign NJ Posts: 169 | From: Voorhees, New Jersey | Registered: Feb 2003
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i prepaint my hdu b4 i rout it...prime 2 or 3 coats...then paint(i prefer oil enamel)2 or 3 coats...let sit for about a week(i'm over cautious)i don't want the mask to take off paint..mask, rout and then prime, paint or guild. that way you don't have to be so careful when u r finishing the piece.
-------------------- Karyn Bush Simply Not Ordinary, LLC Bartlett, NH 603-383-9955 www.snosigns.com info@snosigns.com Posts: 3516 | From: Bartlett, NH USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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posted
I have used the PB Resin by Precision Board and it is pretty cool stuff. Bob, you can add any color One Shot to it. The metallics give you a bit of a funny look but the solid color work great. Smooth as glass when you are finished.
-------------------- TJ Duvall Diamond State Graphics, Inc.
New Castle, DE 19720 Posts: 396 | From: New Castle,Delaware | Registered: Jul 2002
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Could someone tell us in a nutshell how to use the resin on HDU. I guess that you mix a small amount at a time - mix well - brush on real fast and let it flow out like size will self level. Is that right? Thanks
-------------------- John Arnott El Cajon CA 619 596-9989 signgraphics1@aol.com http://www.signgraphics1.com Posts: 1443 | From: El Cajon CA usa | Registered: Dec 1998
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This is copied right from Precision Board Web site: I did all the same except I mixed in a squeeze bottle so it was easier to apply. Don't use a metal can it will really speed up the cure time.
Description: PB Resin is a two-part modified epoxy resin that can be applied in clear form, or mixed with lettering enamels to quickly and easily create a high gloss color finish. PB Resin will create an ultra smooth surface on Precision Board, any density, with no priming and no sanding. PB Resin can also be applied to polystyrene, wood, stone, steel, aluminum, and almost any other substrate.
Application: A smooth, opaque finish can usually be achieved on flat surfaces in one coat. No priming, no sanding! Rough areas may need two coats. Application must be done on level working surface.
The ratio of PB Resin part A to B is 50:50. The resin must be thoroughly mixed for two minutes minimum. Accurate ratio and complete mixing is very important to ensure proper resin cure. If resin is not completely mixed it will not cure and will remain soft. If this occurs it must be removed and reapplied.
PB Resin can be tinted to any color using standard oil based paints or lettering enamels. Add a small amount of desired color directly into mixed resin. About 1 tsp. per 8 oz. Mix for 1 minute. Place drop on printed page. If you can read print, add a little more color, mix well.
PB Resin can be applied directly from the mixing cup or from a squeeze applicator bottle. Apply resin directly to unpainted surface and allow it to completely flow out. Assist flow out with stir stick, etc. The resin’s high surface tension keeps it from going over the edge.
Wait 24 hours before applying gold leaf, lettering enamels, or etc. If second coat is required, wait for complete cure of first coat. Wait minimum of 4 hours prior to moving the coated item.
Air bubbles formed during the application process are easily removed by spraying a fine mist of denatured alcohol over the affected area. Bubbles must be removed two to three times as they re-appear. Multiple light sprayings are best. Do not add additional resin after alcohol has been applied.
Working Time After PB Resin has been thoroughly mixed for about 2 minutes the working time is approximately 25 to 35 minutes. The hotter the temperature the shorter the working time.
Do not mix a new batch of PB Resin into an older batch of resin. It will not flow out and the cure will be inconsistent.
Clean Up & Storage Clean hands with warm, soapy, water. Tools used can be cleaned with mineral spirits. Store PB Resin in a cool place and keep out of sunlight.
-------------------- TJ Duvall Diamond State Graphics, Inc.
New Castle, DE 19720 Posts: 396 | From: New Castle,Delaware | Registered: Jul 2002
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Ok I thought this was something new. I did a lot of sandblasted signs years ago but we used table top epoxy by the name of Decopor.
Even tinted it with 1-shots too. I had one failure using this technique on a redwood sign. After a couple of years the surface epoxy started to delaminate. Im not sure what caused it. My guess would be that the letters may have been sanded "too smooth" and there was not enough mechanical adheasion. Or its possible that the wood expanded or contracted as thats what wood will do. I guess with the HDU you dont have that problem and if the pores of the surface are cleaned out that should help the epoxy bite into the surface.
Another problem I encountered was the epoxy not curing on a few signs. It stayed goo like and I ended up scraping it off and that was a real mess. I know it wasnt for lack of mixing either. Seemed to only happen with white 1-shot as I recall.
Now if only I still sold sandblasted signs. I still might give it a try again on dimensional HDU pieces that we cut and apply.
I've become so lazy and rarely use paint anymore. Production wise, its faster to cut out acrylic or Dibond and all the other substrates that have color built in. Time is so valuable and I'm always looking for ways to shorten the production process of making a sign.
Anyway I seem to be drifting off the topic. Thanks for the answers on the PB resin.
-------------------- Bob Stephens Skywatch Signs Zephyrhills, FL
posted
Since I won't be able to make it to Tomahawk either, I will pick you folks brain a little more. Do I get this right that this quick easy (1-coat/no prime) thick, glassy, colored surface can be applied to an entire blank before masking & blasting? Is it costly to do it this way?
posted
Doug its after blasting. In fact I would leave the sandblast stencil on after blasting, stain, prime or paint your background. Pull you mask off then apply the resin. I used a broken popcicle stick to daub the resin on. You had to work fast if you were covering a large surface area because the resin would kick pretty quick. I use to mix small batches and cover only what I knew I could get done in a given amount of time.
Still the gloss finish looked great when you were done.
-------------------- Bob Stephens Skywatch Signs Zephyrhills, FL
posted
It sounds like the are selling you Polyester resin the same stuff we used as kids to make those clacker balls and to encase spiders in plastic. Another Trick on polyester to remove bubbles is to use a propane torch and lightly go over the surface and it will draw out and pop the bubbles. Don't use a blow dryer as it will create a ripple effect(which in its own right is very intresting think of a Waterfront sign that has waves in the letters)I use this technique to make water scenes for my Model Dioramas with a touch of blue/green. Gives the water real Depth. You can also use Polurethane resin available from here.. http://www.goldenwestmfg.com/ The real intreseting as Costal Enterprises is Goldenwests Parent company. I have use the 709 or Smooth-Ons Version (Oderless White) with one shot added to achieve the same effect.. Also a another neat effect is I will rout out 1/2 Plex in reverse then Back fill the Plex with the colored resin.. Quick and Painless and if you by chance drip on the polished surface let it cure and just pop off the drop... I will do this on Interior sinage as I havent had the time to test it by leaving it outside in the weather. The nice thing or the curse depends on how you look at it is the Polurethane sets up in 5 to 7 mins so you have to work fast but you can do a many multicolor layout in a hour or two..
posted
Apply after blasting only. The resin application results in a doming effect due to surface tension. To cover the whole board and sandblast the edge would give a sharp "different" looking edge and would be a waste of product.
Its not cheap. But the time it saves is incredible. The learning curve is not steep. You may encounter a few bumps, but I've had no disasters. It also is possible to do some neat special effects that are so easy, like the lacey look, and color swirl.
There are numerous epoxy formulas with varying characteristics. The resins by PB and Sign Foam are epoxies formulated to accept the added contamination of lettering enamel without adversly affecting the cure time and hardness too much. They also use a hardner strength and ratio to allow for enough working time to spread the epoxy.
It is applied from a plastic bottle with a spout. You lay down beads about a quarter inch wide, a quarter inch apart. It spreads alot on its own. But when you are done applying an area, you "help" the rest spread to the edges. I bought a box of finger cots (condom looking things for the finger tip) They are alot cheaper than a rubber glove cuz you only need to use one finger to spread. No epoxy should touch your skin.
Another favorite tool for helping the epoxy spread is an exacto knife, both the handle end and the blade.
I've had problems with it on redwood. I restored an older sign, 2 seperate signs back to back. The problem was the customers' sprinkling system was watering the signs every night. The north facing sign looks great. The south facing sign had some of the epoxy fall off. I'm sure it delaminated from expansion from sun. But I've had zero failures on HDU.
-------------------- Dave Sherby "Sandman" SherWood Sign & Graphic Design Crystal Falls, MI 49920 906-875-6201 sherwoodsign@sbcglobal.net Posts: 5406 | From: Crystal Falls, MI USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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