posted
Hullo everyone. I have been viewing the boards for a few days and have really enjoyed reading all the knowledge here. I have been in signage for 12 years and it is amazing how much I still don't know
Alot of questions here so please bear with me.
We recently purchased a used 54" HP 3000 printer and we are still learning the digital process (no training and there are tons of media and tricks out there) so forgive me for silly questions. We are looking for a way to improve our digital process.
While we believe we got it at a fair price ($3000 including the RIP software and UV and Die based inks), it does not seem to be what we envisioned. We currently use a Wetjet Polypropolyn (sp?) for outdoor non-illuminated applications and have found that to be working ok. Our main problem is with the translucent applications. Currently we use a Wetjet window film (removable) and apply a UV protectant over the top to help it stay attached to the sign. We have found that this is very difficult to get a good finished product and the inks chip and peal easily from this vinyl. We have to handle both films with kid gloves and have had to do alot of redos because of how fragile they can be.
After calling sales reps (and being hit with a baseball bat by the boss), I have come to the conclusion that there is not a good water-proof adhesive backed translucent material for outdoor use for the HP 3000 unless you laminate.
Now we are looking for a laminator. I am in the belief that we will need a cold laminator if we want to protect our prints and it seems it is the only way to get a durable translucent waterproof film (what is the difference between a hot laminator ... besides that it uses heat?). Can someone please recomend a manufacturer, info site and products (perhaps even explain the process I have heard that people can make their own? Any info on that would be nice.
Lastly, I am also having proplems with transfering files and keeping the image quality. I design in Adobie 10 and then transfer the image into Adobie Elements to save as a Photoshop EPS file. What I am finding is that the colors do not even come close from one machine (design station ) to the printer CPU. I am having to guess in Photoshop and make the image alot darker in hopes that the printed image is dark enough. What am I missing or doing wrong? If it is just a color management thing, how do I fix that? Do I really need a color chrometer thingy to read the screens?
Thank you so much for reading my problems and questions and thank you in advance for any help.
Jake
-------------------- Jim Jacobsen Michael's Signs, Inc. 3914 South Memorial Racine, WI 53403 Posts: 6 | From: Racine, WI | Registered: Aug 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Hi Jake. I just wanted to welcome you to this site. I am very sorry I can't help you with your questions but I didn't want you to feel not welcomed. Hopefully someone will have the same equipment and can answer your questions. This will get you back up to the top. Again, WELCOME.
-------------------- Cynthia Pack 246 Diamondview Loop Galax, Va. 24333 Posts: 659 | From: Galax, Virginia USA | Registered: Mar 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
I'm not a digital printing expert, but if all you need to do is keep color accurate from one in house machine to the next.; matching video cards, monitors, and color profiles should do the trick.
Even without matching hardware, you can probably experiment with color profile settings to get two different monitors real close.
-------------------- Glenn S. Harris
....back in the sign trade full time. Posts: 293 | From: Baton Rouge, LA, USA | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged |
Color management is probably one of the most difficult things to deal with in the field of digital printing.
There are many variables that can create problems. A few months ago, a staffer ran a paneled Edge job using Gerber's 220 white cast vinyl. She ran out of vinyl on the last panel so she put in a roll of Oracal 651 white calendared vinyl. The color shift was huge.
Differences in substrates, ink brands and machine wear & tear all contribute to color shifts and difficulties in staying consistant.
What it boils down to is taking the time to create CMYK color charts based on substrates and ink brands/types as time and need allows. There really isn't a magic bullet unfortunately.
A good source of information on digital printing is Digital Graphics Magazine which is published by the same people who put out SignBusiness Magazine. Also, be sure to check out http://www.sgia.org/db/member/digUV_center/index.html .
""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3486 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
| IP: Logged |
The HP3000 you purchased is really more suited to paper printing and indoor applications than it is signage.
This being said, the relatively low price of them and the sheer number of them in the market caused a great many companies to try to adapt thermal inkjet technology for signage applications.
Using 3M Thermal Inkjet (TIJ) Supplies is probably your best bet for producing durable thermal inkjet prints...well worth browsing and perhaps getting in touch with a 3M dealer.
I would recommend SEAL hot roll laminators for thermal inkjet prints...they also have a number of laminates and substrates that may be of interest. You will find products employing heat activated adhesives are typically a good deal less money than those using pressure-sensitive (cold) adhesive...and offer greater versatility for a variety of indoor applications.
Colour management is tricky business unless you are prepared to invest time and money in educating and properly equipping yourself. You don't have to do this all at once, but you do have to start somewhere. I've heard good things about these people but you might want to start with your local suppliers.
A colorimeter-thingie is probably the last thing you need to acquire...a good RIP, media profiles and a good, knowledgeable supplier will help you get a long way.
If you don't mind one more piece of advice...three words: plan, plan, plan!
Don't buy another piece of equipment without understanding what you are trying to accomplish and how the equipment in question is going to help you achieve your objectives and goals.
Be sure that your objectives and goals are simply stated and quantifiable. Business planning and Market planning will ensure your success
Look beyond simply the next equipment purchase and plan to re-invest cyclically...every 12-36 months...To do this, you need to be able to make realistic projections for Return On Investment (ROI) for the equipment you acquire.
Good luck!
[ August 12, 2003, 12:59 PM: Message edited by: Jon Aston ]
-------------------- Jon Aston MARKETING PARTNERS "Strategy, Marketing and Business Development" Tel 705-719-9209 Posts: 1724 | From: Barrie, ON, CANADA | Registered: Sep 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
Thank you everyone for the warm welcome. Hopefully I will be able to contribute some knowledge to this board in another 10 or so years
A little bit about myself and my company: I work for a company that builds custom architectual signage. We do everything in house from Design, Fabrication, Neon, ADA & Interior Signage and Installation. I am the only designer - engineer for three salesmen and I also run the Graphics Department (3 people) We employ about 20 people in the summer and we have a sales near 2 million annually (3.5 mill was tops in 1999). So we are really a Jack of all Trades (Master of None) type company. Unfortunately because of the workload, we can do little experimentation or product testing and Semeniars or Advanced Training are few and far between.
I had done some investigation into printing ( specfically the HP 3000 - 5000 and used the boards at SignWeb to ask specific questions. I thought I understood the limitations of the printer but the problems I have now have never came up in my responses or research <<<<< figures. My supplier are happy to sell me more materials as he suggested other experiments but he knew little about the Sign Industry. Since then I have talked to Oracal, two other suppliers and have learned alot of what does not work or what we cannot do.
I will be buisy researching the advice you guys gave me. I do appreciate it very much.
Jake
-------------------- Jim Jacobsen Michael's Signs, Inc. 3914 South Memorial Racine, WI 53403 Posts: 6 | From: Racine, WI | Registered: Aug 2003
| IP: Logged |
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic