posted
I would like to try some different primers for HDU which could be sprayed, would fill all the holes, and could be topcoated with acrylic latex. I already use FSC88WB and it does a good job but it takes a lot of sandpaper and time. The new Signfoam primer seemed too thin to me for filling the HDU, would take more coats and costs about twice as much.
What do others use? Thanks
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7403 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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Wayne here's a basic take....automotive wise: #1 even though they're 'cheaper' in comparison stay away from the labeled acrylic/acylic high build/or lacquer.....people like them b/c they don't cost that much,they dry really fast,but they also don't do that much.....in theory they spray nicely but you will wind up with a surface full of more nibs bits and bumps than you want that takes twice as much surface prep as you wantto do.....they also don't have the substrate adhesion and how much of a factor that would be over hdu,who knows. They also tend to be porous and brittle and will let moisture in behind them over time,and may let moisture/solvents absorb downward while the paint is curing and give you areas of color inconsistency after its dry.....also to get them to fill with any kind of consistency you have to pile on a pretty heavy coat,not to mention that some have a few added 'goodies' to make them easier to sand but may give you an adhesion problem with acrylic latex you wouldnt get from using a solvent based system on top. #2-Stay away from the ones labeled UV cured #3- Go with one of the catalyzed 2 part primers,most often you've seen them tan or buff in color and some people call them Euro or Uro b/c they're an acrylic urethane base. They have a much higher solid content and fill very well per gun pass versus the other stuff,dry fairly quickly and dry hard enuff to keep you from having problems with solvents evaporating down instead of up. They spray and level very well and extremely smooth if you have the mix ratio right,and build more consistently than anything else out there,and sand very easily. Also one of the recomended applications of the product now is by using a roller( the white tampon looking foam ones) and it rolls just as smooth as it sprays believe it or not..you will have to practice that ona few scrap pieces b/c you do have to reduce it a tad bit more to roll it....you can also overrduce yor final coat if you're spraying so it acts like a sealer...but remember if you're using acrylic latex mostly it's not gonna have the 'bite' solvent based or catalyzed products do and since that type primer is much harder when it cures you have to sand it for it to adhere. I use it on pretty much anything that needs primiing and it pretty much takes the guess factor out of the equation. I don't know b/c I rarely use it if expansion is any factor with the HDU like it is with wood but you will have less 'give' with this stuff. #4-you will spend more $$$$ initially than for some of the other stuff...but you have to break it down on a job by job basis b4 you'll see you're probably spending less b/c you're using less each time. I'm not gonna give a specific brand a plug but i will say i would stay away from anything with Nason,Omni,Western or Limco on the can....what you save up front may not always be worth it. If you want to,email me and i'll give you the name of couple you can trust that aren't necessarily big name brands you can look for in your area. Don't know if I specifically answered your question here but sometimes it's better to know exactly what the stuff is gonna do in a general sense than just rely on the 'well i use this one' and hope it works for you as well,if that makes sense. Hope it helped
-------------------- Gavin Chachere Plotter in the garage,New Orleans La.
"Sgts Shugart and Gordon again request permission to rope down to crash site two" Posts: 1223 | From: new orleans.la. | Registered: Mar 2000
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i think you need to make a small test piece wayne. i may be wrong but i was under the impression that hud will not stand up to HOT reducers and thinners. and that these types of chemicals will erode the hud. if you can put these tpye of paint on hud then try a acrylic enamel "fill primer". it will lay a coat and as it drys it expands. thus "filling" some imperfections. just a thought.
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Along with the urethane primers you might check into polyester primer/surfacer.
I use Evercoat's "Finish Sand" poly primer quite often and it builds up thickness nicely. It's more like fiberglass resin in the respect it uses the same catalyst and it's not quite as picky about the mix ratios as the urethanes are. It does shrink as it cures just like fiberglass does, so while you can do a heavy coat that covers and fills in one pass, you need to be careful not to lay down more than needed.. it will sometimes shrink and curl, pulling itsself right up off the work surface.
It's also cheap, less than $20 per quart.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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I'm currently underway with 7 HDU signs. I used FSC88 waterbase and applied it with a 5 or 6 inch putty knife until it was smooth. Coat was before applying sandblast mask. It worked great. I used to hate FSC88, but since learning to work with it, I'm better at it now and I'll stick with this method for a while. After blasting (which is now done) I plan to shoot the background with thinned FSC88. The raised areas are already flat and smooth enough for painting and/or gold, although I may give them another coat.
Didn't have time to read all about the automotive finish products... I'm interested, but understand they're expensive..IOW...6 of one 1/2 doz the other. Needs more investigating from my end. Otherwise, I'm more than pleased with the results of the FSC88. For flat background signs with recessed or carved graphics, automotive primers might be the way to go. I'll have to read-back 'cause I'm interested in this subject.
See ya.
-------------------- Fran Maholland Pro Sign NJ Posts: 169 | From: Voorhees, New Jersey | Registered: Feb 2003
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I mentioned these products on one of your other posts and you should really try them out.
$45 for a quart of urethane primer would probably save you hours of filling, sanding and finish work.
Imagine loading up a 4x8 sheet with tons of copy.
You can:
A. Spend how many hours filling and sanding it all by hand.. and still have to prime it.
B. Mix up a quart of high build primer and shoot it in 5 minutes, 10 tops (literally), walk away so it can dry and work on something else. Come back and do all your detail painting.
$45 materials plus $10 in labor (at $1/minute) sounds much better to me than 2... 3.. maybe 4 hours of labor ($120-240 or more) for doing it by hand. That's 2,3 or 4 hours you can put into a second $2,000 sign.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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Mike if the Finish Sand poly is shrinking on you shoot some test panels with less catalyst and see how it works out...the stuff usually is recommended for bake at around the 120-140deg range but they assume 50% or so humidity,which is prob the temp in your garage with about 40% humidity added..its kickin way too fast
-------------------- Gavin Chachere Plotter in the garage,New Orleans La.
"Sgts Shugart and Gordon again request permission to rope down to crash site two" Posts: 1223 | From: new orleans.la. | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
Gavin, I only had that problem once and actually it wasn't on one of my parts, but the table surface where all my overspray ends up thus building up thickness like crazy where it generated enough of its own exotherm to kick it faster. Same thing happens with fiberglass, you can mix it cool but build up too much thickness at once so it kicks itsself off and warps like crazy.
I usually do mix it with less catalyst just so I have more working time, even in the winter when the temps drop down into the 70's but there is a warning on the can about laying it down too thick at once.. now I know why.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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