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We sprayed a sunset/water scene with some Sherwin-Williams industrial enamel paint on alumalite, let it set for over a week and then sprayed some clear Krylon on it to protect it from bruffs and scratchs. The design has a vinyl banner across the top and so I installed it with a little water, let it set for a few minutes and then tried to take the premask off. When the vinyl wasn't sticking, I went about something else for 20 minutes, came back and tried to remove the premask. The vinyl still wasn't sticking so when I peeled it off it took off the Krylon. The Krylon had darked everything a little so when I removed the banner you could see where it had been. I then proceeded to remove all the coat of Krylon by using applying old vinyl and then removing it.
We then Frog Juiced it and had the same thing happen. Any suggestions or ideas on whats going on.
-------------------- Laura Butler Vision Graphics & Sign 4479 Welch Rd Attica, Mi 48412 Posts: 2855 | From: Attica, Mi, USA | Registered: Nov 2000
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-------------------- Pierre St.Marie Stmariegraphics Kalispell,Mt www.stmariegraphics.com ------------------ Plan on knowing everything before I die and time's running out! Posts: 4223 | From: Kalispell,Mt 59903 | Registered: Mar 2000
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And if you want to know how to permanently seal it, go to our website.
k31
-------------------- Pierre St.Marie Stmariegraphics Kalispell,Mt www.stmariegraphics.com ------------------ Plan on knowing everything before I die and time's running out! Posts: 4223 | From: Kalispell,Mt 59903 | Registered: Mar 2000
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Sounds like incompatibility with 2 different paint systems, or more likely, too much time elapsed before applying the clear. The clears are not wanting to stick to the industrial enamel without sanding the enamel first as Pierre suggested. I would skip the clear altogether. Be careful with clears. Some clears don't last as long as the paint underneath and wind up crazing and flaking off after a couple years. But if you've used this system before and had success, then the enamel probably sat too long, became too hard and didn't allow either clear to bond to it. Good luck -- Bill
-------------------- Bill Diaz Diaz Sign Art Pontiac IL www.diazsignart.com Posts: 2107 | From: Pontiac, IL | Registered: Dec 2001
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Be carefull of "industrial paints" some of them actually contain SILICONE in the formula !
Nothing wants to stick to them, and the silicone can and will travel from base to top coat due to solvent activation !
Also, sanding should be done AFTER cleaning surfase with Rapid Prep (gets the silicone out) of MOST substrates.
Water is a very poor application fluid, it does absolutly nothing toward stimulating the adhesive for faster bond, but, Rapid Tac or Tac II will !!!!!!!!!!!!
Roger
-------------------- Roger Bailey Rapid Tac Incorporated 186 Combs Dr. Merlin Oregon 97532 Posts: 3020 | From: Merlin Oregon | Registered: Dec 1998
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sometimes ONE-SHOT is you best option. you said it was a "scene" background. and if you woulda just painted what was in vinyl...on top of that.....i know how you feel.....ive had problems with vinyl sticking to some "industrial latex paints". this is why most of my paint that goes on any aluminum is either one shot or AUTOMOTIVE acrylic enamel. treat it like you would a vehicle....
[ July 31, 2003, 05:47 PM: Message edited by: old paint ]
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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LATEX ENAMEL? and house/industrial oil based enamels are in a different vechile(the part of the paint that is liquid)ONE SHOT and auto acrylic enamel are made with hotter vehicles so it will bond better and dry quicker than industrial stuff.
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Laura, Here are a few notes for reference about paint types...
Latex enamel - house paint. Water based and great for interior murals. Not too durable for exterior signs and there really is no clearcoat designed for them to my knowledge. Vinyl doesn't last too long on them since they oxidize easily.
Oil based paints - not really something for signage, but handy for posts. Works well against rust on metal. Vinyl deoesn't adhere to it.
Acrylic enamels - Great for working on metal with as long as you do good prep work like scuffing, tack ragging and proper mixing. I always spray these for smoother finishes. Again, not designed for clearing over, but if you must, Frog Juice or One Shot Clear doesn't hurt it.
The equipment enamel you may have worked with is usually a synthetic enamel and is intended for low buck painting on heavy machinery. It does have silicon in it and Roger is absolutely on the money. Vinyl hates it.
Basecoat/Clearcoats - An art form in itself. Base coating is the first step where color, not coverage is the goal. Don't try for a shiny coat, just get the color even. The clearcoat takes care of the shine. Check out Joey Madden if you want to learn more. He's got it down.
Alkyd based paints - Benjamin Moore Impervo and One Shot lettering paints are alkyd based. They are designed to be glossy, have opaque coverage, adhere well and be durable under many conditions. Vinyl sticks well to alkyds and it can be used on wood or metal. Prepping is still a very important step. Scuffing is always recommended, even on MDO or prepainted aluminum sheets. (*note - when you get shrink wrapped aluminum, the wrapping leaves a silicon film behind, causing fisheye.) UV Clear and frog juice are designed to work on alkyds. Automotive clear, like polyurethane, can lift the paint and cause failure.
Many of the above are available in spray cans, but some have harser aerosol agents. Krylon and Rustoleum can be very damaging if used improperly.
Hope this helps.. Rapid
-------------------- Ray Rheaume Rapidfire Design 543 Brushwood Road North Haverhill, NH 03774 rapidfiredesign@hotmail.com 603-787-6803
I like my paint shaken, not stirred. Posts: 5648 | From: North Haverhill, New Hampshire | Registered: Apr 2003
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Ray, 1-Shot is an Alkyd-Resin Oil Based enamel , and this is why a some clearcoats can and cannot be comparable with it. Although some clearcoats will cover the 1-Shot, the 1-Shot will rise within its first coat. This is why fogging the first coat of clear is so crucial when clearcoating 1-Shot.
-------------------- HotLines Joey Madden - pinstriping since 1952 'Perfection, its what I look for and what I live for'
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