posted
I've taken this from another post because it kind'a bothered me, and hope I don't get off track. I was wondering how many of you think that the customer is right to assume that those who paint signs should know which paint to use when doing vehicles? Or do you think the customer should do more homework when wanting his work done? In my line of work I've always done vehicles and therefore have learned which materials work and which don't. Going from vehicle art to signage is easy as many vehicle artists have done. But going from signage to vehicle art, many sign painters get into trouble, one reason is because 1-Shot now makes a catalyst calling it a hardener, and persons accept it as the thing to use when a clearcoat is to be used. I don't think persons realize that some things just aren't going to work unless you have lots of experience and patience to go along with it. Almost every question regards to problems in a painted surface gone wrong, puts the customer at fault for his assumption rather then the sign painters use of their cure-all 1 Shot. Who's problem is it to learn what is compatable and what is not? If sign painters want to do everything then isn't it good to learn everything first hand rather then experiment on a customers vehicle? Does oil and water mix?
Is the customer not important enough for the painter to have a couple of paint systems on hand so at least you'll have a chance for problems to disappear?
Sometimes I just don't get it
-------------------- HotLines Joey Madden - pinstriping since 1952 'Perfection, its what I look for and what I live for'
posted
I don't do that kind of work because I don't have the knowledge. I expect my dentist to send me to an oral surgeon if he needs to, regardless if I think he can do the job himself!!
-------------------- Tim Whitcher Adrian, MI Posts: 1546 | From: Adrian, MI | Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
Joey, I don't know the other post you're referring to, but the way you've presented the material here, I'd have to say absolutely yes, it is up to the painter to be responsible for whatever he puts on a customer's job, and make it right if there's a problem. The only exception I could think of is if the customer specifically said the surface was other than it really was (like enamel vs lacquer), and that directly lead to an incompatibility.
SONGPAINTER Original Sign Music by Sign People NOW AVAILABLE on CD and the proceeds go to Letterville's favorite charity! Click Here for Sound Clips! Posts: 1974 | From: Orleans, MA, Cape Cod, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
Ok, so now I've read the original post you're refering to and I need to append my answer slightly...
In Shane's case, he wasn't exactly mislead, but he sure was left out of the loop. Sounds like the guy doing the clear didn't have any more knowlege than Shane did about the potential problems of clearcoating dissimilar paints. Why these two individuals were paired up with the disclaimer "Ah don't worry about it" seems to place just a little bit of responsibility on the client too, in my opinion. Total blame for the blowup doesn't fall neatly on any one individual. Although I still agree that in the end, the client remains exempt. He should have kept his mouth shut, but since he's the one paying, its up to the professionals to know the correct answers and tell him "NO".
SONGPAINTER Original Sign Music by Sign People NOW AVAILABLE on CD and the proceeds go to Letterville's favorite charity! Click Here for Sound Clips! Posts: 1974 | From: Orleans, MA, Cape Cod, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
Hi Joey...good topic. I think that if one wishes to be considered a "professional", then that carries with it a responsibility for knowing about the positive merits of the materials that one uses. It ALSO means that one should know about any potential pittfalls that might be encountered when those "endorsed and recommended materials" are used. The one exception might be when a customer drags in some creation that they've "cobbled together" out of some strange or unusual materials or combinations of different materials. Imagine someone bringing you a prototype of something they've constructed, having an aluminum frame, carbon fibre panels, fenders of low energy type plastics, and a polycarbonate windshield. They want you to paint and decorate this concoction of theirs, but they're not too sure of what everything consists of. I know what I'd do, but how would you handle such a scenario?
-------------------- Ken Henry Henry & Henry Signs London, Ontario Canada (519) 439-1881 e-mail: kjmlhenry@rogers.com
Why do I get all those on-line offers to sell me Viagara, when the only thing hardening is my arteries ? Posts: 2689 | From: London,Ontario, Canada | Registered: Feb 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
I am NOT a pragmatist, but there are times when the issue is beyond right or wrong. If your business is built on referals, then sometimes you've got to "eat it" and fix the thing.
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
When hiring a "professional", people naturally expect the pro to (and had better) know all about the materials they use. Car paint has many variables, but if the client is wrong (and they often are) about what's on their ride, too bad for them. Perhaps a disclamer for them to sign (before hand) would be appropriate.
posted
Easy: If you don't know what will happen, experiment.
You should be the expert on this, not the customer. If the customer knows more about this than you, why did he come to you in the first place? If you're not the expert, research & experiment. By taking on this job, it's your reputation on the line even if the customer says "don't worry bout it".
If this were me, I'd call the body shop & get the paint info. Most are very friendly and will be happy to share the paint info with you. Then I'd call up someone from Letterville who is experienced with this & pick their brain. Then, I'd grab a panel, the paint info & ask your buddy the body shop to spray the panel real quick. Now play. I'd rather call in a favor from the body shop & spend some time on a panel than risk problems on a new paint job.
-------------------- Chris Welker Wildfire Signs Indiana, Pa Posts: 4254 | From: Indiana, PA | Registered: Mar 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
The person doing the work is supposed to be the pro so all accountability lays on his/her shoulders.
If there's an unknown variable, the solution is simple: Research it by asking other pro's advice or experimenting on a test panel first like Kissy suggested, or flat-out refuse the work.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
Some customers come in looking for the cheap. He wants you to do parts of his project which he cannot get his bro-inlaw or buddy to do.
Over all he may save about 10% of his total cash but spent extra hours chasing around.
He comes in and says do it. Don't worry about the next step assuming too much and knowing his buddy will prevail.
In the end something goes wrong and his buddy gets more credibility than you.
I will happliy take his money but tell him in writing that I cannot guarantee what i did not do.
-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5278 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged |
The average customer, I find, defines the term "sign painter" or "graphic artist" as someone who can do art and letters, pretty much on anything. They "assume" a lot with that definition.
Are they right to do so? Probably not. Not too many sighn painters can draw superheroes from scratch, nor can others who carve signs swing an airbrush with great skill right off the bat.
I wish I had a dime for every time that someone has asked me if I do body work when they see a vehicle I lettered. Although I have some knowledge about it, it's just not something I do professionally.
I learned the vehicle paints right along side the sign paints and risked a few panels on some enduro cars (lol), but never on a paying customers vehicle or sign. My policy over the years, but I have seen posts where a live job is taken in without any prior experience using some of the materials.
Today I just did my first job using the holographic film I won from the monthly draw here, but only after a couple of weeks of playing with it first. I found out that my cutter blade gets dulled quickly, it's much more rigid than the other vinyls I use and it has a look that would take me a lifetime to mimic with paint. Very cool stuff if you learn how to use it. The customer was thrilled with the look of his trailer and I was glad to be able to add it to my list of tools.
I don't do illuminated, sandblasted, gilded, leafed or carved signs. I know my limits and won't do it until I know it's going to work. I have a few new things I'm trying with sign foam, pearlescent paints, different brushes and the like, (some of which I plan on bringing to FKAB for critique and discussion) but until I feel comfortable with it, I'm not going to tell a customer I can do something with them until I am sure of the end results.
The word "professional" to me is a loaded term. I do graphics as a profession but will never claim to know it all, especially when a customer wants something that is way over my head.
Rapid
-------------------- Ray Rheaume Rapidfire Design 543 Brushwood Road North Haverhill, NH 03774 rapidfiredesign@hotmail.com 603-787-6803
I like my paint shaken, not stirred. Posts: 5648 | From: North Haverhill, New Hampshire | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged |
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic