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This is not a sign question but an observation or theory of our industry. At an appointment last week my Doc and I got to speaking about my Adult ADD or ADHD. (I was diagnosed as a kid). It seems many kids with ADD or ADHD carry it with them into adulthood. Like me. I work with parents of ADD/ADHD kids and with other older sufferers, just sharing my experience in growing up, dealing with and making a success of my life despite the debilitation of ADD.
I recently took part in a big discussion with a board of so called experts. One Dr. brought up a study on the similarities in characteristics between entrepreneurs and those with Adult ADD or ADHD. Entrepreneurs and ADD and ADHD suffers are both usually identified by their tendency to strike out on there own in business (cause they can't last at a regular job, punching a clock with the other Joe Lunchboxes). And They usually wind up in a business where they create something new or in a field that allows a constant creative process (because they are very creative thinkers and easily bored).
I began to think about my own path that brought me to the wonderful world of signs. I started wondering since there are so many creative business owners here: How many of you have, think you might have or after reading the following wonder?
The American Head Shrinker Association developed the follow checklist; to be defined as having ADD or ADHD you must meet 12 of the following characteristics: 1)Sense of underachievement, of not meeting ones goals. 2)Difficulty getting organized 3)Chronic procrastination or difficulty getting started 4)Many projects going on at once; trouble with follow through 5)Tendency to say what comes to mind without concern for timing or appropriateness of remark. 6)constant search for high stimulation 7)Tendency to be easily bored 8)Easy distractibility; trouble focusing. Tends to "tune out" or "drift away". 9)Often creative, intuitive and highly intelligent 10)Trouble going through established channels 11)Trouble with authority 12)Impulsive; either verbally or with action 13)Tendency to worry needlessly or endlessly 14)Sense of impending doom 15)Mood swings and depression 16)impatient; low tolerance for frustration 17)Restlessness 18)tendency toward addictive behavior 19)inaccurate self image (pro or con) 20)Family history of ADD or ADHD
I guess what I'm wondering is if our little commune of paint sniffers here may be more than what it appears to be on the surface and we have more in common then appears. Do some of us have similar Genetics? One study claims a gene has been passed down from the hunter/survival days of the caveman before most survivors turned to farming and to community. During this process of evolution most of the hunters died off. But the small number that survived is said to have a specific gene that has been passed on.
It is estimated that between 9-15% of the population has ADD or ADHD. I'm curious as to what the percentage might be here in Letterville or in our industry for that matter.
I am due to speak before a large audience next month and was looking for a new angle to keep their attention. I'm sure you guys are going to jump all over this with humorous posts but keep in mind I am looking to get some serious input, opinions, feelings, stories etc... from the most creative group I know of. This could turn out to be really interesting. Thanks
-------------------- David Lexington Outpost Signs Lewis St Pittsburgh, NH thesigndog@yahoo.com Posts: 41 | From: Pittsburgh, NH | Registered: Mar 2003
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I scored a ten, so I guess I fell below the ADD radar, but close enough to leave me wondering. maybe I'll ask my wife to score me. Very interesting theory, and may have some truth to it. A long time ago I worked with an Italian sign painter. He always had many thing on the go, yet could never finish them. In the middle of doing a sign he would stop, and paint a flower or two on anyting laying around. He also had plenty of problems with authority, he just did not care. He was a good sign painter and he knew it, yet would never take the time to check the spelling.
-------------------- "Are we having fun yet?" Peter Schuttinga DZines Sign Studio 1617 Millstream rd Victoria BC V9B-6G4 Posts: 521 | From: Victoria BC | Registered: Mar 2002
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Hi David We were introduced to the wonderful world of ADD/ADHD when our daughter was diagnosed in high school. What a change that day made in my life. After a lifetime of struggling and beating myself up for being so inept, I came to the realization that I was not a "bad", "stupid" or "lazy" person, that my lack of organizational skills were due to the way my mind was wired. I'd always known that those labels didn't belong to me, that I had inherited certain shortcomings along with some incredible abilities from my father. I did a lot of research once I realized that I had found the answer to the question "What's wrong with me?" My conclusion is that there isn't anything wrong - just different. I only regret that I hadn't found out sooner about all of this, because it probably would have made life alot easier. Once you are aware of something it becomes so much more manageable, and I have learned a lot of coping skills. My daughter did alot of presentations at paraprofessional conferences in her last two years of high school. I'm betting that there is a very high percentage of ADD on this BB. It really does seem to go hand in hand with creativity.
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5496 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5274 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
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oh yea...add/ahdd....just something else to make us all dependant on some damn drug!!!!! i got 28 years in AA/NA and you wana see some ADD/AHDD people go to a meetin....oh and thats also has 12 things to figure out if you got a problem. me iam the lazest person i know. drugs i dont need, i know iam crazy and not the norm..and i like it....so i live with it and dont blame my creativity on some damn problem some shrink came up with. i like me, and iam good at what i do, and i may not move in the same steps as the rest of the people...again... i like the way iam. oh i didnt take the test....didnt feel it would serve any good for me. i like being drug, meat, soda, beer, wine, pot, scrip drugs...FREE......
[ July 23, 2003, 02:17 AM: Message edited by: old paint ]
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Kids don't have any choice but to live with it because they cannot make conscious decisions to deal with their problems..
But Adults... I think if you have the capability to identify your problem (so-called ADD) then you have the ability to deal with it.. It takes a conscious effort. If you run your own business and you just figure you have ADD and that's why you cannot remember jobs or follow up with customers, you either need to get out of your own business or hunker down and just get the work done. Not having any food in the kitchen or money to pay bills should be enough motivation to get work done.
I'd venture to say I have more projects going on at once than most people here, just join in letterville chat some night and it's the first question I am asked when I show up.. "Hey mike, what project you have going on today?"
I'm easily bored... I sometimes miss emails.. I bounce around from here to there and back over that way only to end up in 3 days ago.
In fact I fit into every statement on that list in some degree.. but I'll chalk it up to my own laziness or flakiness before I ever give up and say "Oh, it's OK, I have ADD."
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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before you draw any premature conclusions regarding the common thread of distraction & delusion around this community, did anyone else notice that strangely psychedelic glow emanating from our village watertower above?
I've never been diagnosed, nor have my kids, but that does not mean it is not a factor to consider. Here in Letterville, if the same percentages you posted apply, that would mean over 300 of us would have ADD.
Food for thought. Rapid
-------------------- Ray Rheaume Rapidfire Design 543 Brushwood Road North Haverhill, NH 03774 rapidfiredesign@hotmail.com 603-787-6803
I like my paint shaken, not stirred. Posts: 5648 | From: North Haverhill, New Hampshire | Registered: Apr 2003
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I have dyslexia, which I believe to be a stronger case of ADD. I may have both, but obviously the symptoms, are coupled to both problems. Dyslexia as well as ADD have very powerful assets, along with their inherent problems. We have a much higher sense of awareness, we tend to view and balance visualizations in our heads much better. (i.e. being able to imagine exactly what a sign will look like, without laying it out on paper) For this reason, many dyslectics become artists or designers. It is very easy for me to create great play on words, because they flash around in my head. Unfortunately, I could be only a one liner comic, as I have no sense of timing. I have always believed the two were the same thing. Do any of you others, have problems reading or transpose things a lot?
-------------------- "Don't change horses in midstream, unless you spot one with longer legs" bronzeo oti Jack Davis 1410 Main St Joplin, MO 64801 www.imagemakerart.com jack@imagemakerart.com Posts: 1549 | From: Joplin, MO | Registered: Mar 2000
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I scored 18 out of 20 and doubt that I suffer from ADD. I do carry the blessing/curse of an above average IQ which will cause most of the symptoms you list.
I have two sons. I also HAD a wife who "hung on the words of any professional" and who has spent most of her adult life within five feet of a self-help book.
The older son was diagnosed in the first grade as having ADD and was put on Ritalin. Since we lived nearby, he also participated in a National Institute of Health study for about a year. After that time they concluded that, while there was nothing they could specifically measure or identify, he had ADD. He had also been placed in a Special Learning Disabilities class at school.
By the third grade, most parties concluded that he did not have ADD. He was taken off medication but by them had self-esteem problems and spent the balance of his school years in Emotionally Handicapped classes. At sixteen, he quit school. He is now in his thirties and still has self-esteem problems.
The other son, as a teenager, developed a habit of persistently clearing his throat. A neurologist diagnosed him as having Tourettes Syndrome and put him on Halperidol .... a powerful drug with tranquilizing effects.
After two years of watching him fail and generally spend his waking hours in a stupor, I took him off his medication. When no symptoms of Tourettes appeared, I contacted the neurologist for a reevaluation. The doctor refused, saying that his symptoms might be in remission but that his diagnosis could not be wrong. (Diagnosis of TS is done by "Clinical Observation" .... there is no specific way of determining if one has it or not).
Now, twenty years later, this son is a commercial pilot and holds a responsible management position at an airport. He no longer clears his throat persistently, nor does he demonstrate any symptoms of TS, and he has not taken medication to mask its symptoms since I stopped supplying it to him.
I no longer take the words of professionals and experts as being better or more meaningful than my own intellect and common sense dictate and I caution anyone else to be skeptical in these matters.
-------------------- Fred Weiss Allied Computer Graphics, Inc. 4620 Lake Worth Road Lake Worth, FL 33463 561 649-6300 allcompu@allcompu.com Posts: 427 | From: Lake Worth, Florida | Registered: Feb 2003
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I have to agree with Mikes and Davids assessment. I have many of the signs but have never allowed any of them to be an excuse for any inabilities or short comings I might have.
I'm comfortable in my own skin even though many others don't understand me. As an adult I know what I need to take care of.
-------------------- Bob Stephens Skywatch Signs Zephyrhills, FL
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I don't think that David was looking for an excuse for his shortcomings. I know that I am much more organized and efficient since I learned the reasons I struggled with certain things. I have benefited a great deal from some of the traits that go along with ADD. I have raised six wonderful children, I have a diploma in Agriculture, I am running my own business, I've coached ringette, hockey and ball, done countless hours of volunteer work in the community, etc. This has been possible because of the traits that I attribute to ADD, not despite them. What I'm trying to say is that I do not use ADD as an excuse for anything, rather I appreciate the good things it has brought me. Sure there are days when I wish my mind would focus better, when I curse my scattered brain, but it has a great deal to do with whom I became. Understanding how my mind works has made me accept myself. Instead of beating myself up I learned coping skills - for example I open and deal with my mail as I get it - if I don't have time to deal with it, I don't pick it up at my PO. I do not take any medication, but there is a wealth of information available on how to work around things. I do complete my work on time and I do not use this as an excuse. I will never be overly organized, simply because my mind jumps around too much. There are times when I am simply to unfocused to do certain things. Putting music on, listening to books on tape, having a TV running all help me cope by distracting and keeping my mind from racing while I work. I would recommend that if at all possible, keep your children off medication and teach them to deal with the way their minds are wired. Our daughter was diagnosed just before she started grade 11, She was the one who was totally frusterated with losing things and being unorganized and was insisting that there was something wrong with herself. Her father and I rejected that idea, she was a beautiful, creative, caring, vibrant girl who had inherited some "bad" traits from her ancestors. She went on medication for a short period of time, in the first week on meds, she accomplished more than she had in her entire lifetime as far as organizational and concentrational stuff. She suffered from extreme emotional rebounds as her medicine wore off - all the emotions swings that had been bottled up during the day hit at once. She used medication off and on for the next two years, struggling between dealing with the emotional side effects of the drug and the desire to have a less chaotic life. The tragedy in this story is that she has since developed schitzophrenia, and we were later told that it can be triggered by Ritalin. Because there is mental illness in the family, she may have developed it anyway, but had I known the possibility existed I would not have let her experiment with the medication. ADD/ADHD can be viewed as a handicap, and in some severe cases it definately is, but it comes with a treasure chest of good traits. Unfortunately it can wreak havoc on your self esteem. David - I think the theory that there is a higher percentage of people with these traits in North America because of the type of people who migrated here - those who were adventurous, in trouble, runaways etc. makes perfect sense. The neat thing is that it has made North America a very inventive and progressive continent. I think there are people who afraid of putting a label on things because it brands them. I do not think that ADD or ADHD should ever be allowed to be used as an excuse for character flaws, and athough I realize that in some extreme cases medication is necessary, I would like to see it treated with education, rather than drugs.
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5496 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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Many real profesionals that study and deal with these "traits" describe them as just traits. Few of them are still calling it a syndrom or disorder any more unless it leads to a learning or behavior problem.
They are Genetic traits just like one has brown hair or blue eyes. We all have strenghts and weaknesses most of which are gifts from our genetic combinations.
And we all must make adjustments for persons with this trait just as we all make adjustments for those with born using their left hand.
Do you agree????
-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5274 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
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I don't see this post as trying to make any excuses. I think the intention was to see how similiar the traits we have are to what some head shrinkers use to define ADD. What is AHDH?
I oftentimes joke that I'm suffering from ADD today, which is why I was busy all day but got zilch accomplished. I often work on one project for a while til I get bored (which sometimes takes as little as 5 minutes), then I'm off to something else.
Do I think my lack of concentration is caused by some disease? no, I wouldn't call it a disease on my part, just the strange workings of my own mind. Do I think it can be cured by a drug? For me, no. Even if it could, I wouldn't take it.
I've said for years I have a highly addictive personality. I find something I like, then I overdo it until I can't stand it anymore. I started shooting pool again a couple years ago, before I knew it I was playing 5 nights a week. Didn't take long for me to resent the teams I was on & long for the season to be over. I haven't shot in 3 months.
I scored 15. It took me 20 minutes to write this cause I had to stop to check my email & I played a game of solitaire.
-------------------- Chris Welker Wildfire Signs Indiana, Pa Posts: 4254 | From: Indiana, PA | Registered: Mar 2001
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I agree Curtis! It is more of a personality type than a disease. It can be severly handicapping, however. Chris ADHD is ADD with Hyperactivity added. People that fall into that category are very hyper and often very disruptive to their environment due to the fact they can't sit quietly - the interesting thing about that is they can become so totally absorbed in something that they are interested with that they will completely shut out the world around them. A lot of people with these traits seem to function on the two extremes of behaviour - either being totally engrossed or "bouncing off walls". It is a very fascinating subject. EDIT: Just reread this string Jack - my daughter showed signs of dislexia in her first years of school - she also was ambidextrous - wrote with both hands - sometimes up and down the page sometimes left to right. She seemed to overcome this by garde three although the teachers were quite concerned in the beginning. She always has had trouble reading and concentrating on the written text, much more a visual learner - but then aren't a lot of creative people. Doug - too funny!
[ July 23, 2003, 12:57 PM: Message edited by: Kelly Thorson ]
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5496 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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I got a 19 out of 20 Cant answer 20 as I was adopted... They forgot 21.. "Cant find ones desk under the pile of junk"...
Very Intresting post as I was one of the millions diogosed with that in the early 70s and put on Riddlin to make me "Better"..Nothing like giving a 7 year old heroine I don't make excuses for my behavior. "Thats who I am." You just learn to channel your energy. I can say I'm realitivly happy with my "Disability" it could be worse.. I could have been a politician.
Very interesting post! My mother said the school wanted me on Ridilin (?) when I was 8, but my parents decided to be strict instead. Probably for the better. Some teachers love it when the kids are zombies, and don't challenge them because they are sedated.
Today, I match about 12 of the symptoms. But, I imagine alot of the design prone people on the BB match most of them too. Happily, I don't suffer from depression, mood swings, addictive behavoir,or worry about impending doom. But, I would rather have ADD/ADHD than somthing terminal or life threatening. Greetings to all.
[ July 23, 2003, 02:04 PM: Message edited by: Rick Beisiegel ]
""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3489 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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Kelly, when I was a little kid I could write with both hands simultaneously, on seperate pages and different thoughts on each page... I somehow grew out of that by the time I was 8 years old but I would kill to have that ability these days, I'd get so much more done! Now I just write left-handed, but any other activity that has a "hand" I favor my right but I can use my left too.
Like it was mentioned before, ADD is just certain traits each of us have but the medical community had to go give it a label and develop a drug to "cure" it, so all of a sudden people have a label they can give themselves. "Oh he has ADD, let's dope him up on some medication even though there's no real medical condition in play here."
I never had any of the "ADD traits" when I was younger. I had no problems concentrating on school, in fact school was a breeze for me all the way up through college. Maybe it's possible that school provided just enough new challenge to keep me interested - I still breezed through it.
It wasn't until I got into the workforce that monotony and boredom set in, then I just went completely nuts looking for something that was a challenge.. hence my bazillion hobbies..
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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Just curious but what are the traits of somebody with a "type A" personality? Are they not similiar? I have "OCD" too and who knows what else. But no paranoia or schizophrenia luckily.
-------------------- Bob Stephens Skywatch Signs Zephyrhills, FL
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my opinion....most of you need to take an hour a day, go out and sit in a field, and MEDITATE!!! go ahead laugh....not untill you stop and sit and think of nothing, only then will you be able to enjoy who you are and what you do...FOR YOU when you do a meditation. in my 20's i had 3 jobs, dirt biked in the summer, skiid in the winter. was always DOING! same for my later years..always got projects. i was 42 smokin 3 packs a cigarettes a day and had 3 heart attacks. some say since i didnt go to a doctor, that i didnt really have em. well if they werent, i never want to have one..AGAIN. since then i have done a lot of things to keep myself well and TIA CHI was one of these things. i had done martial arts in my younger years, but that was just so i could really hurt someone. tia chi is all about internal energy, and how to control it.....and its better then any drug!!!! along with tia chi the sefu/instructor would have weekend meditations....yea weekend..2 day, or 4-5 hours each of nothing but sitting quietly and not thinking....gee such a weird concept you say....well it sure is....and if most who belive what these doctors tell would try this....you wont need your drugs anymore...you all have heard or seen the hindu swamis that can take their pulse rate from 70 down to 20-30, lower their blodd pressure, go days without food or water, and all they do is use their minds.......just remember most people only are using 10% of their brain at any given time.....you have no idea what that other 90% can do......
[ July 23, 2003, 03:17 PM: Message edited by: old paint ]
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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The guy was being taught to become the next shaman in this village & he was required to sit & draw a circle around himself & then focus his concentration on nothing beyond the circle from sunrise to sunset. (It may have been 24 hours actually... or was it 3 days?)
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Yes to almost all, but then I know that I am ADHD. I have been tested and tested out as severe ADHD. I was born with it as were all my brothers but it can also been caused by a head injury, especially if the person is knocked out. Mine was compounded by 3 serious head injuries. When I was 3, I fell out of a moving vehicles and fractured by skull. When I was 12 I fell off a horse, hit my head on a huge rock and was knocked out. I was hospitalized with a concussion. When I was about 38, I was out in the woods with my husband cutting wood. He cut a tree that started to fall the wrong way and I ran to the trailer to try to protect myself. The tree fell squarely on my head and literally almost killed me.
In elementary school everything was so easy and I was so disruptive that when I would get my work done early, the teacher would let me go to the kindergarten class and read to the kids. Before the teacher let me start doing that, I usually spent most of the day in the hall for talking too much.
After falling off the horse, everything went down hill. School became so hard that I wasn't able to graduate with my class. I didn't graduate until Aug of that same year because I had to do summer school.
I have struggled with this all my life and sometimes have cried myself to sleep because of the stress of trying not to be impulsive and say whatever comes into my head. I was constantly telling people that I was sorry for what I said. I have since found out why this happens. I had a Dr. tell me that in a normal brain when a thought comes in the brain, it pauses and then processes the thought - say or not say something or do-don't do something. But in an ADD/ADHD brain there is no pause. So whatever comes in-goes out the mouth or the person acts on it. I have learned to compensate by trying to constantly tell myself to slow down, monitor myself, etc. I would go to bed at night and be so totally drained emotionally that I would either be awake all night or totally zonked out.
Ritalin has been my saving grace. I almost got in a serious accident a few years ago because of not paying attention. I was driving down the road and got spacey and wasn't paying attention and looked up just in time to see four cars driving real close to each other coming at me and I had crossed over the yellow line. Thats when I decided to get tested before I killed someone or myself. I was test severe and put on Ritalin.
Recently I forgot to get my prescription renewed and went 2 weeks without it. No money was coming in at the shop and I was getting behind in my bills. Then I realized that I was going into the shop, jumping from one job to another, and getting nothing done - which meant no money coming in. I started back on the Ritalin and bingo, I was able to concentrate, stay on track, and get things accomplished.
People in the past have tried to be helpful by telling me to just concentrate harder, get more organized, write things down, etc...A dr. told me once that an ADD/ADHD brain doesn't have as many neuro-transmitters as a normal brain. So when a thought comes in there may not be enough neuro-transmitters to receive and process correctly. My theory for why Ritalin works on an ADD/ADHD brain is that it makes what neuro transmitters that are there, work more efficiently. On a normal brain, Ritalin would act like speed. But thats just my theory.
Some normal people tell me that its all in my head and that if I tried a little harder I could do better. I tell them that thats like telling a diabetic that if they tried a little harder then they wouldn't need insulin.
Now on the good side of being ADHD- When I was younger, I got a lot of stuff done. I was good at Real Estate, I would push myself when doing physical work (but then I would push other people too), I was charming and had a quick sense of humor, I was never boring and could intelligently discuss many subjects with paupers or millionaires. Actually I feel sorry in a way for people that aren't ADHD. I have loved it and I have hated it.
[ July 23, 2003, 10:42 PM: Message edited by: Laura Butler ]
-------------------- Laura Butler Vision Graphics & Sign 4479 Welch Rd Attica, Mi 48412 Posts: 2855 | From: Attica, Mi, USA | Registered: Nov 2000
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Thanks Kelly for your insight...a lot of people are ignorant in thinking we can control our behavior if we only tried harder.....typical of those who don't have ADHD.
All my life I've 'tried harder' to focus, organize, sort, sit still, file my taxes, balance my checkbook, finish a painting, finish my jobs, etc.......
Even though most people tell me I'm talented and creative, they don't know how far I fall from where I wish I was in my career.
I've been on Pemoline for several years and since it's known to adversely effect the liver I've decided to take myself off it.
If things get worse I'll have to try something else.
Most people with ADD/ADHD have higher IQs than normal people.A lot are artists, musicians, creative people.
When I get into my 'zone' I can work intensely for hours without being aware of anything else around me.
posted
he he he For a bunch of SMART people,it sure has taken ya'll a long time to figuire out that WE were born with these traits FOR A REASON! Geez even OP has come pretty close to the realization. Read it yourself and decide. EXODUS 31:1-6 (Holy Bible) Unles you are a scientist or government official
-------------------- PKing is Pat King The Professor of SIGNOLOGY Posts: 3113 | From: Pompano Beach, FL. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Although I am not medicated, you described me too, as far as the knowing a little about many subjects etc. I'd like to add that I too would rather be this way, and that most people enjoy the diversity.
Hiring a talented focused person helps balance where I lack. My wife is always telling me to "focus" or "write it down" You have given me hope in knowing I am not the only one who simply cannot.
My cleaning lady came in last night and totally messed up the "system" on my desk,
""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3489 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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I was reading up on the subject and found out that one of the side effects was the extending of one's arm. Apparently useful for patting oneself on the back and reinforcing how creative and smart they are.
-------------------- Wright Signs Wyandotte, Michigan Posts: 2785 | From: Wyandotte, MI USA | Registered: Jan 1999
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I was diagnosed a year ago with Adult ADD. My business partner is classic ADD. I decided to go on Adderall because my inability to focus was costing us business! Believe me, I hate taking pills since I watched my mom almost kill herself because she became addicted to prescription drugs. But, it's all a matter of common sense. If my day isn't too busy, I don't take the pill...real simple. Lord do I wish I'd had this drug when I was in high school because beer doesn't have the same effect:-) My son is also ADD and wasn't diagnosed until last year when he was 29 years old. It's a strange thing for sure.
-------------------- Sharon Bigler A Good Sign Chambersburg, PA Posts: 202 | From: Chambersburg, PA USA | Registered: Jul 2001
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Interesting topic and discussion... It bothers me that the numbers for this are so high... 15% of americans are ADD/ADHD? That sounds like they should take the word disorder out of it because it is completely normal. I agree that there are some cases that are extreme and serious - where drugs are helpful and necessary, but the rest of us need to learn to function in our society and not accept drugs to make us like everyone else. Who really want to be a sheep anyway? I love Kelly's theory about why our nation has been historically creative and progressive... makes sense to me.
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heres a real revelation. we all hear about the "shakey jakes", "joe wino" signpainter of of the 50's and 60's......and guess what..since ADD/ADHD wasnt one of the "buzz words" or the drug company hadnt introduced it to the world....i now know why all these GUYS WERE DRUNKS OR POT HEADS!!!! they were all ADD/ADHD!!!!! they needed some drug to slow em down so they could focus.........with all my years in AA/NA 2 words keep popping in my head...denile and rationalize.....oh gee i might be ADD/ADHD...since i say what i think....hehehehehehe
[ July 24, 2003, 02:27 PM: Message edited by: old paint ]
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Actually OP you may be right on! ADD/ADHD people do tend to self medicate and the two most common means were alcohol and drugs. They also tend to have very addictive personalities.
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5496 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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another thought from AA/NA...is LABELING......with all the new "labels", you dont have to admit to the real problem......and if you ARE an adictive personality......then substiuting a drug "prescribed" by a doctor in place of "self-medicating" makes it ok.....ahhhhh that solves the problem.
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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OP you make a strong point, and I agree with you. I have never used alcohol or drugs to "self medicate" as I believe in moderation w/alcohol. If in fact someone suffers from ADD/ADHD, they are still responsible to control themselves and do what is right. It is NOT an excuse for bad behavoir or to abuse family or employees
""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3489 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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I don't believe there is really such a thing as ADD or ADHD. It's just that some people are eaisly bored or are more hyper thasn others. The teachers didn't have the time to deal with hyper active childen and found a way out with Ridlin. Don't believe in giving kids drugs to slow down their thinking either.
Guess that ticked some of you off, but that's my opinion. I've been around a lot of years and in my day a good paddling kept you in line. Oh yeah that would be child cruelty today.
-------------------- Robert Richards Southern Ad Specialties Carrollton, GA 770-830-1501 sasga2000@a0l.com Posts: 138 | From: Carrollton, GA | Registered: Sep 2002
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My dad used to say "Do as I say, not as I do". I still do what he did, but now I am saying it to my kids and friends. I don't practice what I share of knowledge. Maybe because I am still human and don't have as much self discipline as I would like to, or it's a procrastination thing....
but, I agree with OP! Been keeping my kids off the food colorings, flavorings and preservatives...some people are just very sensitive to things and some aren't. But, it is worth a try to seek out the natural things before seeking drugs, expensive doctors, beating yourself up, etc...It worked for my second child since he was borderline hyperactive. Fresh foods, chemical free, reduced sugar intake (and yes, fruit is fructose, milk is lactose, etc.). It may not be cured with food, but, until you've tried it, don't knock it. Maybe it will reduce the need for one's body to have the quick fix. Drugs always drain the body of something vital and ruin the immune system, setting you up for future problems.. there is so much info out there now. What do you eat? Apple juice, fresh or frozen veggies and fruits (watch the salicylates in oranges and nectarines), fresh or frozen fish, even check out any places that sell free range chickens and then ask what they feed the chickens! There are ways to do this on a budget, and there are ways to help the youngsters at school when there are parties with koolaid, etc. Just bring apple juice in ahead of time. What price could you put on peace of mind? Frozen fresh fruit juices make great popsicles, btw. Teach them young and set the example for them. Laura, if that is what you are using, and it helps you, of course, you know what works for you. And, when you have time, search out some good things that are easy to make or buy (or maybe you do!) I know we all have to do what works for us immediately, but there is always hope to find another way that doesn't take it's toll on our bodies. And, maybe, just maybe I'll get my act together and get my act together instead of just talk about it! Hope to connect with you soon.
-------------------- Deb Fowler
"It's kind of fun to do the impossible - Walt Disney (1901-1966) Posts: 5373 | From: Loves Park, Illinois | Registered: Aug 1999
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OP, I'm glad AA has worked for you. I have often heard the line "without AA, I'd be dead!", spoken quite sincerely. That's a pretty serious claim. I drink very rarely, and can honestly say I have NEVER been legally drunk (some day, I hope...). Yet I once had an AA-er seriously tell me I was a "dry drunk", and my sobriety was not real because it did not evolve from a 12-step program. Is this a normal comment to hear?
I remember that AA's first step is to admit being powerless over alcohol. Would it be OK for someone with ADD to say the same thing about ADD? From what I have seen of the ADD comments, ("tough it out, just apply yourself, you can do it) they seem to go against the AA theory of powerlessness to fix yourself. Would you agree?
I have heard AA is starting to be criticized for practices which could be construed as psychological intimidation, due its underlying claim that their program is the only proven way to sobriety, and leaving the program was dooming yourself. "Unless each AA member follows to the best of his ability our suggested Twelve Steps of recovery, he almost certainly signs his own death warrant"- AA's founder Bill Wilson. I was surprised to hear that- Is this AA as you understand it? Do you really need to keep going forever?
This how it was explained to me by writer Paul Roasberry: "At some point, if you begin to question this "program" of A.A.'s, the talk gets tough and they start to lean on you. You are told that you can never recover on your own, that you are doomed to lapse over and over again into drinking binges, or at best, become a "dry drunk."
"The more you try to trot out examples of persons who have transformed their own lives under their own steam, the more the party line is thrown back at you: you are powerless against drink. Powerless. Any so-called examples of alcoholics who quit drinking without the twelve steps are in reality only examples of "dry drunks."
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too funny!
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Now I just write left-handed, but any other activity that has a "hand" I favor my right but I can use my left too. 
, I do resemble the things stated above. Like almost all of them. I don't have a problem with authority though. I love it.
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