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In a Corel newsgroup, somebody had offered hundreds of graphic artists $100 to compete for a logo design. One, named Adam, said it was an OK deal. Another said the following: _______________ I'd like to know the designers that knock up a "half-decent" logo in 10 mins. I can sketch stuff out on paper in probably that time, but that's about it, and it's no where near done. Is he going to pay me $100 for a sketch on paper?
I'm also trying to figure out in my head how many $100 logo's would cover a university degree, and 5+ years experience.
Let's equate this to working in an architectural office. Some guy walks in, says he's got $100, and he just wants a basic floor plan, that's it. No fixture placement, no dimensions, no notes on material, nothing. Well, my first guess is he would be laughed out of the office, but if someone did take the job, they would sketch it out on a used napkin, and demand the entire $100. Not once, in my 5+ years now of working in the architecturalindustry, has someone pulled something like that. Why? Because they would be laughed out of the office. There is a fixed (base) fee, and the guy wanting the sketch would get what he paid for. He would end up paying $100 in clerical fees before the Architect even touched the napkin with a pencil.
If I take this argument further, what you're saying (basically) is, the skills of a graphic-artist are less viable and useful then those of an architect? In certain instances you're right (knowledge of codes, design parameters, etc.), and then again, I look at companies like Nike, Cingula Wireless, etc. and the viability argument fails.
Just curious, Adam, are you still living at home? How many $100 logo's do you think it would take to pay rent, business costs, etc.? When you attended college, did they let you know that $100 knock-offs for logos was a good deal? Did you attend college? I'm sure the guys who have created material for Nike, for instance, would have done their work for $5/hr. I mean, hey, it's only graphic-design.
-------------------- Bruce Williams Lexington KY Posts: 945 | From: Lexington, KY, USA | Registered: Mar 1999
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I always like to say that an architect gets paid the same salary/rate to design an outhouse or a dreamhouse. My experience, education are no different than an architect - and actually, my services will make you money, rather than actually 'costing' you anything.
$100. Go for it. Maybe I'll hire them to do my work, and I'll collect the rest of the real money!
"Some are born to move the world, to live their fantasies. But most of us just dream about the things we'd like to be." - Rush Posts: 1192 | From: Washington, NJ | Registered: Feb 1999
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Ahhhh... The age old question... Here's one where I may know a little. I studied Graphic Design at several schools including (Ah Hum) Claremont College in California. I did design for Reebok as in intern and my first job out of school was with working for some friends who had a little screen printing business known as Salem Sportswear. Salem Sportswear owns Pro Player, The Name in athletic apparel. They sold hundreds of millions of dollars worth of t-shirts bearing my work and eventually sold the company to Fruit of the Loom for a reported $114 million. I was never paid more than $13 per hour for my production art time or more than $75 for designs I created that were being sold by the hundreds of thousands. . At the time I loved every minute of it and I still see my designs on shirts. Later I worked in the Graphics Department for a National sign company. I left for a sales position in ‘90 because there was just no money in design. And I haven’t looked back since. All the money I’ve ever made from all the logos I’ve designed and sold would probably just make two payments on my new Boxster. So I appreciate that design and money are complete opposites. I did some work for AND1 and I do some occasional freelance stuff for local guys for fun and usually no charge. I Founded and later sold out to my brother, one of the larger Screen printing/Embroidery/Sign businesses, so anytime I feel the desire to create I walk into the Art Department and poach a job or two.
Anyhow back in the day, while I worked at Salem Sportswear, I did some design work for a guy named Jeff Johnson.. He was a older guy who seem to know everybody in the sports business. At the time we met I was competing in a lot of Adventure Races, Triathlons, and Marathons. Jeff was an running enthusiast and it wasn’t long before we began training together. He was somewhat of a mentor to me. He was divorced, had a daughter a few years older than me but he lived alone in a huge house and had more books than the library in my town and seemed to have more money than God. On long runs he would tell me about people he knew and worked with through the years. Bill Bowerman, Steve Prefontaine (my boyhood hero), Michael Jordan, Phil Knight the incredible list went on and on.. He had a new person or story for every mile we ran and we’ve racked up tens of thousands of miles over the years. Jeff was in his late 40s when we met. He was retired but always fooling around with new ideas. He taught track at the high school level and for some reason, took me under his wing. After knowing him for a couple of years, he still seemed a mystery to me. He had told me several times that he had missed his chance at the Olympic trials and that I was a better runner then he was and I should remember that distance runners peak late.. Sorry.. I’m getting off the subject..
One day in fall of 1993 I was crashing at his place while training for a big race in South America. It was my first big race outside of the country and I was nervous as hell (even throwing up on runs). As usual on the night before traveling I was having trouble sleeping and decided to take a walk. I was sitting on his front porch steps lacing up my shoes when screen door opened and Jeff came out and sat with me. That night we talked until the sun came up and I learned the real story of who Jeff Johnson was.
It turned out Jeff was the first employee of Nike. He started before it was even Nike, when the company was known as Blue ribbon Sports and Phil Knight was doing it as a part time thing. Over the years I have come to learn from others that Jeff actually thought of the name, and to make a longer story short he is regarded as the man who built Nike into what it is.. There is nobody in the know, who thinks there would even be a Nike without Jeff. Jeff Johnson is Nike.
Which brings me to he reason of this post. The Nike logo, the “Swoosh” as it has come to be known and registered as is listed as Nike’s most Coveted asset, estimated to be worth several hundred billion dollars. The swoosh was designed by a Portland State art student named Carolyn Davidson. She designed several different logos (Jeff remembers somewhere between 9-12 designs). After looking through them all and pressured by a deadline Phil Knight declared that he didn’t like any of them, but that he disliked the checkmark looking one the least. The rest is history.
Oh yeah. Carolyn set her own price and I was told Phil Knight balked at that. The price…. $35.
So I guess what we’re trying to get at is how much is a design worth? It has been my experience that a design is worth only as much as someone is willing to pay for it. In the case you spoke about it‘s worth $100.
It sucks there are so many talented people, as seen here, that probably find themselves having to justify a small design price on a regular basis. When the fact is that design may wind up being worth millions. As it is said, the best actor can’t carry a bad script, so to the best vinyl, substrate or paint won’t help a bad design. Just my opinion .
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you wana see cheap logos..check out ebay...logo designs... good story.... close as i can come was this old man in knew in sarasota. he rode a bicycle because his eyes were so bad he couldnt drive. i think i first meet hin in OFFICE DEPOT, he was trying to get something printed that they couldnt do and the salesman knew i did signs and sorta figured i could do what he needed. long story short,he always was tellin me he was in "advertising", after i got to know him(about a year)he tells me this. joe you ever see the add for BOSTON WHALER boats, the one where the guy cuts the boat in half with a chain saw....i said yep....well i was the guy who come up with that, and my partner was the owner of the company. we had some long talks....you never know what some of these old guys did in their youth.
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Hey Old Paint - I just came down your way the other day & bought a Boston Whaler - in Gulf Breeze - nice little 13.4 footer - 40 horse Johnson - I towed it all the way back to Olive Branch wid my piddly ol Isuzu Pickup - Carl
-------------------- Carl Wood Olive Branch, Ms Posts: 1392 | From: Olive Branch,MS USA | Registered: Nov 1999
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