When you buy a piece of equipment from a distrubutor as a "demo" what exactly does this mean to you?
So say that you find out that the "demo" piece of equipment really had a prior life, and that life was not just in the capable hands of a salesperson, rather, this piece of equipment really had lived in a sign shop prior to you buying this piece of equipment that was sold to you as a "demo", Then you find out that it was repossed, does this add fuel to the fire? You (at least I) would have to wonder how the equipment had been treated prior to being taked back, wouldn't you wonder too??
Would this upset you? What would you do? What if the President of the company faxed you a 2 + 1/2 page letter basically telling you to go pound sand, and his Manager that oversees your sales area just does not return phonecalls, and when he does, he does not bring any offers to the table to rectify this situation.
Would this be considered fraud? And if you found out via others, including past employees of the distributor that this happens "frequently" how do you think you might handle it?
Would it mean anything if you found out employees were leaving left & right?
Does this call for a civil suit?
Inquiring minds are, well, wondering.......
Thanks!
What if this piece of equipment had been looked over by the manafacturer of the equipment, would this make you forget that you were mislead?
-------------------- Mike Berry New England Posts: 534 | From: New England | Registered: Jan 2002
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-------------------- Pierre St.Marie Stmariegraphics Kalispell,Mt www.stmariegraphics.com ------------------ Plan on knowing everything before I die and time's running out! Posts: 4223 | From: Kalispell,Mt 59903 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
A demo means it's the one used for demonstration purposes. No 2 ways about it. It should have been listed as repoed or factor refurbished (if it was, which it should be)
Don't know about the fraud part, call an attorney.
Is there a problem with it or are you just upset that it was suppost to be a demo, not a repo'ed machine?
-------------------- Chris Welker Wildfire Signs Indiana, Pa Posts: 4254 | From: Indiana, PA | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
To me a "demo" is something that has been used by a salesperson/demonstrator to show it's capabilities.
It has never been sold to, or owned by, an end user/customer.
It is finally sold with a full and complete warrantee.
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
It's working OK. This whole deal came to light when I was looking to get warranty paperwork after a long time asking for it. when I bought the equipment a year ago, there was some debate as to the expiration of the warranty. I did not want to let it lapse.
The salesperson that I dealt with left the company. This is when I was informed from him that the paperwork had been processed, as far as he knew, he passed it up the line, so really it was out of his hands.
My plotter was supposed to come with the same warranty, and it currently is not under warranty, although the district manager (for a lack of better discription) insists it is, the manafacturer says it's not, and the President is telling me a different story via a fax. (He won't return my calls)
So....I have learned a lesson here. Am I just going to sweep it under the rug...nope!
I respect Pierre's opinion very much, and when he say's it's used, mister, I take what he says seriously!
So.....to drop the bomb here, the "equipment" I am referring to here is a Gerber Edge I. I will withhold the names of the involved parties for now, in hopes they will get their heads out of the sand (or other places) and step up to the plate.
So Gerber fans.....do yourself a favor, call gerber with your serial numbers.....do you know where your equipment has been??????
Chris, the big problem that I am having is this; it's not what I was sold. They knew it when the said it was something else, I was not informed it was a used machine, Gerber told me the history, and that's when my blood started to boil.....
[ July 18, 2003, 11:18 PM: Message edited by: Michael Berry ]
-------------------- Mike Berry New England Posts: 534 | From: New England | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
Thanks for clearing that up Michael. It doesn't change the fact that you were flat out lied to, but it would make matters stickier if there were a problem with it.
With a demo, the warranty should be the same as a brand new machine. The fact that there was debate about warranty is kinda scary.
-------------------- Chris Welker Wildfire Signs Indiana, Pa Posts: 4254 | From: Indiana, PA | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
Mike, I followed your other post, & I am in total agreement that everyone expects "demo" to mean the company you bought it from lightly used it as a floor model to demonstrate it, not that some default buyer may have put it though the paces in a demolition frame of mind at it's own eviction party before the repo man showed up.
Before you sue them, you should... wait thats too good an idea to waste here where they may read it. I'll email you instead.
Interesting... I would say you got hosed. They lied about the machine misrepresenting it's history. Period. That constitutes fraud in my book.
The fact that Gerber isn't stepping up to the plate does not surprise me in the least. I have heard many horror stories regarding Gerber.
We bought a factory refurbished cutter from Allen Datagraph. We were told that the machine carried a full two year factory warranty. This information came from the salesman and sales manager of AD themselves.
We had a problem with with the cutter 14 months after we bought the cutter. We were informed that factory refurbished cutters only had a one year warranty. We squawked big about this.
The company admitted they made a misstake and gave us the full two year warranty. They made it right. I was impressed in one way but satisfied that they did the right thing.
Gerber should be doing the same thing. The lack of concern on the part of all the parties involved with the deception is alarming. Sheesh. A warranty for one machine is going to end up costing them big.
This really making me think we ought to really reconsidering the purchase of the Edge machine we were thinking of. We have already stopped using their repackaged vinyl.
-------------------- Bruce Bowers
DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter Posts: 6464 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
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-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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You negiotated and came to agreement on the price of a 'demo' unit, would you have paid the same price, or indeed, would you have bought a 'used' unit?
You did not get what you paid for -
-------------------- Mike O'Neill
It has yet to be proven that intelligence has any survival value. - Arthur C. Clarke
posted
My first plotter, which i paid for as brand new, was obviously either a return or demo. It looked a little used and there was no plastic envelope around it in the carton. So, when it arrived via UPS, it was covered in silica dust from the dirt road the UPS driver traveled down before he got to me. Either that or they had been sandblasting with it.
I sent it right back. The next one was brand new, sealed in plastic from the factory.
[ July 19, 2003, 08:32 AM: Message edited by: Wayne Webb ]
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7405 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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Lets not blame who is not at fault, Gerber has no responsibilty to warranty a "used" machine that has not had a warranty purchased for.
Mike got sold a faulty bill of goods I say, he and I chatted about this and I am surprised he is not naming them.
Mike you could make them squirm by just saying it like it is here.
If the president of said company told me to pound sand, I'd have a nice post saying it like it is then I'd call him give him the url and tell him to have a happy read.
If I'm not mistaken, 8000 sign people visit here a day, you want to hurt em screw suing them, post about them.
Like Pierre says you machine was used and sold unethically.
But in my issue with a Company before I did the same as you, and I give you credit for being proffessional yourself.
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Good Morning Michael. Based upon what you've revealed so far, there are two issues here. Firstly, there's the matter of what you were told about your purchase. That appears to be a complete lie and missrepresentation, if what you say is accurate.Secondly, there is the issue of "warranty", or rather, the lack of one. While some may take the viewpoint that Gerber bears no responsibility in this dispute, I tend to support your feeling that they must "share" some of the responsibility for what has happened so far.
When one cannot purchase DIRECTLY from a manufacturer, but must make that purchase through a distributor, then that manufacturer MUST INSURE the quality and integrity of those who they appoint as their distributors. It would appear that they haven't done their "due diligence" in this case, and are dodging their responsibility here.THEIR REPUTATION has been called into question by the actions of THEIR distributor that you dealt with, and the business ethics of that distributor will "rub off" onto the manufacturer....whether they like it or not.
If I were the Marketing Manager for Gerber, I'd want to be taking a very serious look at ending such a relationship....and quickly, before any further damage can be done.
Send them a registered letter, outlining how you feel, and give them a specific time period to respond with a solution. If they fail to do so, tell them you will initiate legal action, rather than "pound sand". That should get the ball squarely back into their court and start moving toward a proper and fair resolution.
-------------------- Ken Henry Henry & Henry Signs London, Ontario Canada (519) 439-1881 e-mail: kjmlhenry@rogers.com
Why do I get all those on-line offers to sell me Viagara, when the only thing hardening is my arteries ? Posts: 2689 | From: London,Ontario, Canada | Registered: Feb 1999
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posted
Two words Mike - Attorney General. Gather up all your doumentation, make copies and send them along with a letter to the AG discribing, in detail, the situation. If you're leasing the equipment, be sure that the leasing company is included on everything. Assuming that you're leasing, they may even go to bat for you. Also, if the supplier is a member of any sign or trade association, be sure they get copies too. From there, a letter to any place this supplier advertises and, well you get the idea. Make sure your ducks are in a row. Write down everything. However, it really doesn't matter what the company promised you verbally, it's what's in the written contract that counts.
Good luck and keep us posted,
Checkers
-------------------- a.k.a. Brian Born www.CheckersCustom.com Harrisburg, Pa Work Smart, Play Hard Posts: 3775 | From: Harrisburg, Pa. U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I got an e-mail telling me that this matter had migrated over here from 4EdgeTalk.
Well, I think the whole story needs to be told and not just parts of it.
Gerber has nothing to do with the matter. It is a dispute between a major Gerber distributor, a former and disgruntled salesperson and Mike.
Mike, do you have any documentation stating that the Edge you bought was indeed a "demo"? Is the salesperson that you bought the Edge from the same person who started this mess? Is he also not the same person who failed for a year to follow up with you on your warranty coverage issue? Did the distributor provide you with any documentation that they indeed did purchase the warranty for your Edge?
I know this much. If you got screwed over, this salesperson was in on it. Why you continue to listen to him considering how he failed to follow up with you on your warranty contract (per your words) is beyond me.
-----
Here is something people should understand. Gerber does not sell direct with the exception of warranties and service contracts. Gerber sells materials and equipment only through distributors. In this case, the sales person added an extended warranty to "sweeten the deal" (as I understand it). It was then up to the salesperson to make sure that the distributor purchased the warranty for you. According to the distributor, they have the documentation to show that they did.
Salespeople who work for distributors make a commission on everything they sell. They are also given a certain amount of leeway in making the sale. For example, they may be allowed to discount or give away material up to a certain amount if that will close a sale. Anything beyond that amount is deducted from the salesperson's commission. The salesperson is also responsible for his sales region and sales follow-ups.
Reportedly, the salesperson who started this mess on 4edgetalk.com was dismissed for repeatedly making promises outside established policy and not following up. As a matter of policy, the distributor does not publicly discuss employee matters on a BB (which is true with most companies). This salesperson tried to use the BB on 4edgetalk.com as a way to "get some shots in" at his former employer. He ignored the Site Policy and repeated warnings. Hence, his future participation there is currently in doubt.
If you have purchased a demo or used piece of equipment, you can check the history of the machine by simply contacting Gerber and provide them the serial number. They can tell you who the original owners were and its service history.
Any distributor who intentionally sells a used piece of equipment as a "demo" unit opens themselves to some serious litigation and deservedly so. Its a stupid thing to do since the equipment's history can be so easily verified. One reason why Gerber and every manufacturer that I've ever dealt with keeps such detailed documentation is to protect themselves from the stupid things people do. This anal-retentive detailed documentation also serves to protect you the consumer as well. (You guys think Gerber is tough, buy some equipment from M&R-- ask me about it someday)
[ July 19, 2003, 09:45 AM: Message edited by: Glenn Taylor ]
posted
Look, a distributor is an extension of a company. Either the company makes good on the promises made made by the dealer or it doesn't.
I have no great love for Hyatt's - all things creative. The only thing creative about them is how some of their people keep their jobs. I had a salesman ask, "Are you f***ing stupid?". This was in response to me calling them to thank them for bidding on our new system but we were going with someone else. Nice, huh?
I believe that a company is only as good as the lowest common denominator. Obviously Mr. Berry has found his. Gerber should do something about it. Hyatt's should be doing something about it. From my perspective, no one is doing anything to help this guy out. That just plain ol' sucks. Big time.
Glenn Taylor has a great Gerber dealer that takes care of him. Michael Berry does not. Hyatt's is a Gerber distributor, Gerber made the machine, the salesman is an agent of Hyatt's who is an agent of Gerber. No one wants to do anything. They lied to him. They misrepresented the machine. The engaged in unethical behavior. Why is this any kind of acceptable?
This goes beyond a disgruntled former employee, as if that makes this whole fiasco OK. It is about a company stepping up to the plate, admitting that a dealer dealt in bad faith, and making it right. It is a shame that a dealer is giving a company like Gerber a black eye but thay are condoning this behavior by letting it continue.
One of the things that keeps me from buying a Edge system is that I would have Hyatt's as my distributor. No thank you. They poisoned that relationship on their own a very long time ago.
-------------------- Bruce Bowers
DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter Posts: 6464 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
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posted
Well, first of all, I've never had any dealing with Hyatts, so I can't speak to anything that they have done.
I also cannot speak to what is right or wrong, only to what the courts will see in the law.
Here's the deal. A sign shop buys an Edge from Distributor A. The machine is repo'd some time later. Gerber refurbs the machine and sells it to Distributor B.
1) Did Gerber sell the machine as new or as a refurb to Distributor B? If Gerber sold it as a new unit, then they have some legal issues to deal with. If they sold it as a refurbished unit, the chances of finding Gerber culpable are greatly diminished.
Its like this. Suppose you buy a quart of OneShot Lettering enamel. Then, you tell your client that the paint is some new fangled paint that will never fade. Is OneShot culpable for what you said? Most likely, no. The worst thing that could happen is that OneShot won't sell you any more paint.
2) When Distributor B owned it, did they use it as a demo model? If so, then by definition, a court may accept it as such and find in favor of Distributor B. However, a court may say, "No. The definition of "demo" means that the machine was brand new in the beginning and then used by the distributor to demonstrate; and that the machine could only be presented for resale as a 'refurbished/used' unit."
But, there is a problem with that. Ever bought a TV from a discount retailer? Wanna bet it was a factory reject/refurb and sold as new. Guess what. Its legal. Depending on how much of Mike's unit was refurbished could have a bearing on any case Mike may have. If the majority of the Edge were replaced with new parts and it is determined that there was no intent do deceive on the part of Distributor B, a judge could declare "no harm / no foul". If it was only cleaned up cosmeticly and it is determined that Distributor B intentionally withheld information, then a judge could say otherwise and Distributor B could face fraud charges.
So, what does an armchair lawyer like me know? Not much. I'm just going through a similar situation with a national bank and major insurance company. Not only do I have a strong case of fraud against them, believe it or not, my Civil Rights may have been violated because my Right to live my life without the headaches their deeds have produced has been denied. Thats not me saying that, my lawyer is.
My point is that the the questions and senarios I presented are the same ones my lawyers have presented me. When it comes to the law, there is no such thing as right and wrong. There is only what you can prove.
My gut tells me that Mike's case is going to be determined on what the definition of what the word "demo" means. As screwed up and litigious as this world is, a judge could determine that both sides are right. Won't that be fun.
Said one famous lawyer, "It depends on what the word 'IS" is."
----
Personally, we all know that the worse a turd stinks, the more likely someone will clean it up. If I were Hyatts, I would have turned this into a marketing advantage. I would have given a replacement Edge, or offered some sort of prorated deal, or refund/discount to Mike's reasable satisfaction. The odds are that Mike would have told everyone that Hyatts made a mistake and handled it the way it oughta. It has the potential of helping gain new customers.
I had a client to return a large order of t-shirts a few weeks ago. There was nothing wrong with the screen printing that I did. He was quite happy with it. The problem is that there was a chemical reaction with the dye in the fabric and the sweat from the client's crew. Every where the shirts were in prolonged direct contact turned from blue to white. I could have told him "too bad", but I didn't. I reprinted the shirts with a more expensive brand at no cost and gave them to him. I just won a customer for life and he has already brought a new customer to me.
I've still got to deal with the distributor who in turn has to deal with the manufacturer, but thats the breaks.
-----
Bruce,
Remember what the Bible says. " A little yeast leaven the whole loaf." Anyone involved in sales should remember that.
[ July 19, 2003, 01:24 PM: Message edited by: Glenn Taylor ]
posted
"Personally, we all know that the worse a turd stinks, the more likely someone will clean it up. If I were Hyatts, I would have turned this into a marketing advantage. I would have given a replacement Edge, or offered some sort of prorated deal, or refund/discount to Mike's reasable satisfaction. The odds are that Mike would have told everyone that Hyatts made a mistake and handled it the way it oughta. It has the potential of helping gain new customers."
Glenn - that would be a wonderful idea, however....there's a problem with it. Granted, the "District Manager" did call me last Wednesday, like he said he would. However, he brought NOTHING to the table to resolve this matter. He asked me what I thought we should we, I replied "you said you were going to call with resloutions, you have none"
Then a day later I get a "go pound sand" (my synopsis of the letter) letter from the President of the sign division via my fax machine.
I tried to call him, but he's wayyyyy to busy to speak to me.
So, yup, I would like to resolve the dilemma, but folks have to converse with an open mind and a desire to correct a situation.
I really am trying to be open minded!!
What do I think I should get you might be asking. I want a EDGE with low hours on it and I want the warranty on my Envision 375 to match the one on the EDGE. I might even consider trading up to an EDGE II, but hey, Mr. President would not know this 'cause he won't talk to me, and Mr. Manager needs a hearing aid.
That's it, pretty simple, huh?!
-------------------- Mike Berry New England Posts: 534 | From: New England | Registered: Jan 2002
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quote: What do I think I should get you might be asking. I want a EDGE with low hours on it and I want the warranty on my Envision 375 to match the one on the EDGE. I might even consider trading up to an EDGE II, but hey, Mr. President would not know this 'cause he won't talk to me, and Mr. Manager needs a hearing aid.
That's it, pretty simple, huh?!
No. Not really.
How many hours constitutes "low hours"?
How many hours were on your Edge when you got it? Would the hours on it constitute the definition of "low hours"?
What does the warranty on your plotter have to do with matching the one on your Edge? (More to the story?) What is a reasonable requirement?
If you go to court as you have threatened to do, these are questions you have to ask yourself. A judge will.
Since we know that the Edge is a refurb, how much of it was refurbed? What is the history? Was the printhead replaced? If the printhead had been replaced, did it have lower hours than if you had actually bought a demo?
If it were me, I would have tried to find the value difference between a demo and the refurb that you got.
You made some excellent points in last post. You relayed a story concerning the shirts you screen printed. You made good on the shirts even though you were not at fault. That was the RIGHT thing to do.
Hyatt's is not doing the right thing here. Any monies that were made or might be made are quickly going to be lost forever from this customer. Goodwill is so hard to regain once it is lost.
Way too many times the "legalities" of issues raises it's ugly head. Somewhere along the line "legalities" has taken over as the basis of "right".
You chose to do what was right instead of doing what was within your legal responsibilities. You let your morals reign over an impulse to do what you could have. I commend you for that.
Regardless of the legal aspects of this matter, I still think Hyatt's and/or Gerber should have done what was right.
If the machine was misrepresented, it was misrepresented. Michael Berry might have bought the machine regardless of it's history had he been made aware of it. It was never made known to Michael so it never was allowed to be made part of the equation and it should have.
The tone of my previous post was, I admit, a bit pointed because of the relationship we have with Hyatt's in the past. Your scripture reference (Galatians 5:9) was not lost on me.
It does not, however, sway my opinion or alleviate Hyatt's/Gerber the responsibility of doing what is right rather than what is legally correct.
-------------------- Bruce Bowers
DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter Posts: 6464 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
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posted
It seems that some people are either out to selfishly defend a paying sponsor from the sight they amin on or are totally losing sight of the issue.
There is no "give the distributor the chance to make it right" in a situation like this. This is a crime. If somebody walked in your shop and stole several thousand dollars from you would you just talk to them and give them a chance to make it right??? I think not.
I was involved in Mikes sale as The Salesperson representing the distributor. He was sold a "demo" which means the equipment was owned only by the distributor. Mike paid several thousand dollars more than he would have for a used piece of equipment but what did he get? He was shipped a used piece of equipment. All the paper work I have from the deal and al the paper work Mike has from the deal says Demo.. And it says WITH WARRANTY.
posted
Mein GOOTness, Keith! Welcome to the Letterheads! Quite an entrance. Don't hold back now. Say what you feel. heh.................
I agree. It's total crap. The sucker screwed him and deserves both barrels. I don't even understand why its a subject of discussion.
Now......... Back slowly out of the door and reenter. "Why, HOWdy folks! I'm new here. Sure hope I fit in. Is there a job opening for Master-at-Arms??"
Go for it, Keith......... and welcome aboard.
k31
-------------------- Pierre St.Marie Stmariegraphics Kalispell,Mt www.stmariegraphics.com ------------------ Plan on knowing everything before I die and time's running out! Posts: 4223 | From: Kalispell,Mt 59903 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
Oooops... Sorry Pierre and others. I have watched the postings here for a long time and feel like I know most of you. I've avoided input over the last years because I did not want my motives questioned as that of a "troll."
I've been dealing with Mike on his "issue" for some time now and his story is not a minority. Sorry for jumping headfirst. I'm a little a litle dissapointed in some peoples opinion on this matter. I just want to help.
I'll be making another "buyer beware" post soon that will sum the situation up for everybody...
quote: It seems that some people are either out to selfishly defend a paying sponsor from the sight they amin on or are totally losing sight of the issue.
First of all Keith, I don't defend anyone. I'm more interested in the facts. I'm just a mod who's job is to make sure the rules are followed. You didn't. You were warned. You ignored twice. I did my job. That is my issue.
As in all things, there are three sides to every story. His side, their side, and the truth.
---
quote: There is no "give the distributor the chance to make it right" in a situation like this. This is a crime. If somebody walked in your shop and stole several thousand dollars from you would you just talk to them and give them a chance to make it right??? I think not.
And you sold it knowing it wasn't a Demo? You didn't know it wasn't a demo? Why didn't you know it wasn't a demo? Or, did you know it wasn't a true demo and after you got sacked you decided to exact some revenge?
BTW, why didn't you let Mike know before being dismissed from Hyatts? Why didn't you follow through with Mike and the other person Mike mentioned about their warranties? If Mike couldn't trust you then, why should he trust you now?
I'd be careful about talking about who and what is criminal.
----
quote: I was involved in Mikes sale as The Salesperson representing the distributor. He was sold a "demo" which means the equipment was owned only by the distributor. Mike paid several thousand dollars more than he would have for a used piece of equipment but what did he get? He was shipped a used piece of equipment.
Why didn't you say something about it to Mike instead of waiting until after you were fired? Do you think you should give Mike back part of your commission since it was derived from allegedly false pretenses?
----
quote: All the paper work I have from the deal and al the paper work Mike has from the deal says Demo.. And it says WITH WARRANTY.
Then why did Mike find it necessary to say.....
quote: Hope you keep up with the promises you make at your new place of employment. I am STILL not squared away on the warranty stuff from the "demo" stuff you sold me. Guess I might as well crap in one hand and wish in the other, guess I now know which one will get filled first.
I know another person from NH that is still waiting to get what you promised, guess that won't happen now for sure. Very, very disappointing.
If I recall correctly, Mike went though this for a year. Where were you?
----
Sorry Keith. It all sounds like sour grapes to me and you are intent on doing as much damage as you can.
Why didn't you look out for Mike when you worked for Hyatts instead of after?
posted
That's cool. We can understand. As everyone knows, I just happen to be the coolest head here heh.............
Actually I'd like to hear what you have to say about this a bit more in depth.
k31
-------------------- Pierre St.Marie Stmariegraphics Kalispell,Mt www.stmariegraphics.com ------------------ Plan on knowing everything before I die and time's running out! Posts: 4223 | From: Kalispell,Mt 59903 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
Glenn!! You're a mod?!? Cool! I must have been out of the loop. Belated congrats, Glenn! It also appears that I'm TOTALLY out fo the loop on this subject.
k31
-------------------- Pierre St.Marie Stmariegraphics Kalispell,Mt www.stmariegraphics.com ------------------ Plan on knowing everything before I die and time's running out! Posts: 4223 | From: Kalispell,Mt 59903 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
Glenn, I won't fall into your trap. as I've stated in the past me and several other salespeople and other employess left Hyatt's a few months ago.. Why would I get into a who quit or was fired with you? I think that would be a little immatureand this isn't the place for that.
The facts are coming out and I caution you that you are setting yourself up for a great fall by being on the wrong side when sh#t hits the fan.. To answer your ??? I wasn't privy to the history of machines at the time and had no reason not to beleive what I was told by my supervior and/or owners.. Several times in the months after Mikes sale he contacted me and other at Hyatts we we're all told that Mike was "All set". We had no reason to beleive he wasn't.. It was after I had left Hyatts that I saw in his post that he still did not get a warranty.
I know he paid for it and I have been trying to help him get one now.
BTW I would love to give Mike a few bucks in the hope that it would make things right. I however was not paid for warranty sales and payoff would be an inapproriate solution to a crime. But that's just my opinion we may come from different schools. My new sales territory covers N.C. I'll stop by and we can get to know each other and discuss further.
posted
Yo! Kieffer! Bad form, mon. Don't slide in here and mess with Glenn on his home turf. take it to email.
k31
-------------------- Pierre St.Marie Stmariegraphics Kalispell,Mt www.stmariegraphics.com ------------------ Plan on knowing everything before I die and time's running out! Posts: 4223 | From: Kalispell,Mt 59903 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
Glenn, Don't take that the wrong way, I would really like to met you. You seem to know a bit about the biz. I think it would be nice to meet. Isn't that what this all about?
I am curious as to why you would want to persecute me for sharing information that will help people?? I don't have the time or think this is the place for us to get involved in a debate about it. I'm vacationing in Nags Head the end of August would that be a good time for you?
posted
Glenn, what would you suggest is a better way for Mike to get results and for everybody else who was victimized to be kept awre of whats going on?? You need to understand this is BIG.
I and I'm sure Mike is open for suggestions from any and all. This whole thing has got me in an state of awe..
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I see nothing wrong with Keith having his 2 cents, gee Hyatts is having thier's about him. I just got a letter and 2nd paragraph was directed towards Keith and his not so nice practices.
So I'm interested cuz my salesman is one of the among the missing not to mention I am in Mikes sales area as well.
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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Yeah. I'm just not in the loop with this one, Bobert.
k31
-------------------- Pierre St.Marie Stmariegraphics Kalispell,Mt www.stmariegraphics.com ------------------ Plan on knowing everything before I die and time's running out! Posts: 4223 | From: Kalispell,Mt 59903 | Registered: Mar 2000
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I'm not looking to persecute anyone. Based on your initial behavior and responses, quite frankly I don't trust you or your intentions. You may be on the up and up, but your initial behavior said otherwise. First impressions are the most important, right?
I'm also an employer. I've had disgruntled former employees to display behavior as you have. After a while, you pick up on certain things.
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As for what Mike should do, I can only speak from experience. I can tell you that this isn't the way to do it.
Suppose I do some work for another Letterhead here and I don't get paid as agreed. My phone calls get ignored, messages unanswered and months go by. Should I air the dirty laundry here? No. Its not fair to the owners of this site nor to its participants. I can tell you that most here wouldn't want to hear it and it would blow back in my face.
If Mike want's my advice, I'll wait for him to ask me. Otherwise, I'm just wasting my breath.
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Bob, One and the same.. I just emailed you. Brent says Hi.
Glenn, Do you work for Hyatts? You argue in their favor more than their own employees do.
My behavior was one where I was informing my customers as to my new contact info. As for your opinion that people don't want to hear it I've rec'd over 200 emails from people wanting to know more. Mike has rec'd many as well.
I too am an employer. And I wouldn't hire someone if I thought they'd allow me scam my customers.
As for what you should do if you did work for another member, I personally don't care how you handle it.
You seem to be really stuck on defending a particular distributor over something you have no idea about. Get over it. I'm sure you're an expert at something but it's certainly not this.
I find It's best that when you don't know what you're talking about to keep quite. You might learn something.
If you don't want to hear it, practice your freedom and move on to another thread.
I'm not happy about being put in the place of being the whistle blower ofthe Enron scandal of the sign industry. I live a very quiet, very comfortable life up here in beautiful new england. I don't need this. I was asked by numerous people to help.
Nope. Never bought anything from them either. Nor do I receive or have ever receive any sort of compensation either.
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quote: You argue in their favor more than their own employees do.
Show where I've defended them. As stated before, I'm interested in the facts. If so many employees are doing what you say they are, what does that say about them would be what I'm wondering. I prefer to take what anyone tells me with a grain of salt.
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quote: My behavior was one where I was informing my customers as to my new contact info.
By intentionally violating Site Policy repeatedly? Good start.
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quote: As for your opinion that people don't want to hear it I've rec'd over 200 emails from people wanting to know more. Mike has rec'd many as well.
Everyone wants to see a train wreck, too. My point to you was that the BB was not the accepted way to do it.
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quote: I too am an employer. And I wouldn't hire someone if I thought they'd allow me scam my customers.
I'm not even going to touch that one.
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quote: You seem to be really stuck on defending a particular distributor over something you have no idea about. Get over it. I'm sure you're an expert at something but it's certainly not this.
As I said before, I'm not defending anyone. I'm not going to blindly accept your version of events or anyone elses for that matter.
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quote: I find It's best that when you don't know what you're talking about to keep quite. You might learn something.
I might know more than you know.
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quote: If you don't want to hear it, practice your freedom and move on to another thread.
I'm sure you'd like that.
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quote: I'm not happy about being put in the place of being the whistle blower ofthe Enron scandal of the sign industry.
Then why did you start it?
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quote: I was asked by numerous people to help.
Before or after?
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Bob,
I haven't seen the e-mail. It doesn't sound like a smart thing for them to do. It'll be interesting to see how this soap opera plays out.
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....As Si's cousin's best friend announced the news that she was pregnant, Si slid slowly into the shadows. Was it his sister's nephew, the Priest? Or was it, after all........ the butler? We'll return after these words from Tide!
k31
-------------------- Pierre St.Marie Stmariegraphics Kalispell,Mt www.stmariegraphics.com ------------------ Plan on knowing everything before I die and time's running out! Posts: 4223 | From: Kalispell,Mt 59903 | Registered: Mar 2000
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Glenn seems to know everything ask him who the father is. He'll tell you it was anybody but the real sperm donor.
Harness the POWER OF DENIAL!!!
Glenn, You seem to be really confused. This was started over a warranty issue. I'm sorry I've wasted my time in and grown tired of taking part in a battle of the wits with an unarmed opponent.
There is a synopsis of this whole thing put togther and being updated. It should be of concern to any and all equipment owners.(except, Glenn, he lives in a perfect world.)
For the rest of us mere mortals who would like to be kept abreast of whats going don't tolerate being taken advantage of, you on can email me at kmac@goassco.com ...I will get the most up to date copy out to you.
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