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Hi Hedz. Long time no post, been real bizzy getting the $$ together to go to Cork. A sensor in my IVb crapped the bed. I bought it used 5 years ago, as a plotter only, run by a Dell & using the Graphix Advantage Composor do-hickey. I paid $4,000.oo then... Gerber wants $2,200-2,400 to fix the damn thing. For tha price, I could fly a repairman in from Connecticut.I had them ship me the sensor, which cost less than nine bucks, & I'm gonna have an electrician de-solder the old sensor & re-solder the new one. Long story short, I had a chance meeting a few months back with another lovely sign lady, Debbie from Team Signs in Fombell, PA. She had a IVe sitting in the attic of her shop. I bought it today. I am assured by some folks that it will hook up OK, and to me, it looks OK. Please hold my hand and tell me everything's gonna be all right...as soon as I leave here, I'm gonna attempt a hook-up. I have the LMK card, and Debbie was using her IVe as a dummy plotter just like I am. Heeeeelllpppp! Love- JILL
-------------------- That is like a Mr. Potato Head with all the pieces in the wrong place. -Russ McMullin Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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Going from memory here but as I recall the 4E didn't have a hefty a motherboard for things like outline modules etc. I'm pretty sure the LMK will work just fine in it.
If it doesn't, you can always unsolder the sensor you need and stick it in your old machine. I assume that the sensor is the photo cell used for setting the home position for the blade. The kind of money you're talking about from Gerber is totally outrageous for what is involved.
-------------------- Fred Weiss Allied Computer Graphics, Inc. 4620 Lake Worth Road Lake Worth, FL 33463 561 649-6300 allcompu@allcompu.com Posts: 427 | From: Lake Worth, Florida | Registered: Feb 2003
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I agree about the Gerber attempt at a ripoff Fred. For that kind of money ya can buy a brand new 24" cutter that will jump through hoops!!!!
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
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Oh by the way I'm sure it wouldnt be 2400 for just a sensor, They usually replace any and all worn parts and if that requires a motherboard that too. When a machine goes in for service it usually gets the full treatment.
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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"When it goes in for a service it gets the full treatment."
I would rather spend that kinda money on a NEW machine..NOT an antique from the 80's
Sorry..just my view on practical choices.
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
I have a refurbished 4B. That is way overboard to fix that type of problem. Have you spoken with Hyatts all things creative? They are great. Well, it's good to do a little checking ahead of time, now yu got me thinkin!
See, I had my spring clamp go out three years ago. I got someone local to drill and rethread or something and Gerber wanted minimum $650 or something close. I had a friend's brother rig it so it would stay, see it came unattached at the black wall, and it is better,but I have to have someone hold it down when it cuts, and whoa, that is a pain, but didn't cost me anything but time.
Of course my problem isn't as bad as yours. Still, I never felt like shipping my plotter, since so much can rattle and shake and bump (you kno what I mean!).
Never had a 4E, so it will be interesting, good point, have one of them for parts! GOOD LUCK! have a safe trip to Ireland, Deb Fowler
[ July 17, 2003, 10:28 PM: Message edited by: Deb Fowler ]
-------------------- Deb Fowler
"It's kind of fun to do the impossible - Walt Disney (1901-1966) Posts: 5373 | From: Loves Park, Illinois | Registered: Aug 1999
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I'm with Bob! I bought a used 4B for $100. I changed all the belts myself to the tune of $85. This thing is a work horse. As for the BRAND NEW 24" plotter I bought 7 years ago, it is on it's third mother board. Those go for $650. Gerber charges so much for repair because they now know they produced a Rock when it comes to the 4B. They just assume you don't fix them and buy new equipment. As for the speed of the machine, I'm a one man band here the 4B and the 30" s750 hooked to it work as fast as I can work. Don't need to go faster and don't really want to. Oh yeah Bob, I know you still want my 4B & S750.....CAN'T HAVE 'EM!!!!!
-------------------- Rob Larkham Sign Techniques Inc. Chicopee, Ma Posts: 607 | From: Chester, Ma. | Registered: Apr 2002
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2 grand or more to fix a 4B? Common sense here folks. Yes the 4B was/is a workhorse. But for that price you can get a great machine such as a Summa/Graphtec/Roland. And a 24" machine not to mention speed.
If it was gonna cost you 2 grand to refurbish a VW beetle and you could get a new Mercedez for the same price, would you? Granted the VW may have been a great little car but you gotta go with the common sense.
-------------------- Bruce Evans Crown Graphics Chino, CA graphics@westcoach.net Posts: 913 | From: Chino, CA | Registered: Nov 1998
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ok this will be my last post as to not hijack this thread but hey I've had my 4B since 94, bought it used from the origainl owner who bought it in 89. It aint broke yet, gee think its worth 2400 to go another 14 years? Hmmmmmmmmmmm?????
Oh btw never liked Mercedes, I know thats missing the point, but then so is comparing fixing the 4B to restoring a vw bug.
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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Why not spend the same amount and get a machine that cuts twice the height, 10 times faster and is gonna last you 14 years as well?
Granted, I've been there. I learned on a 4B 14 years ago. Line moves, distortion module, the hole ball of wax. But for the kinda of money we're talking, it just doesn't make sense. Now if your an Edge owner, as I believe Mr. Rochon may be, there would be another reason he's holding onto that 4B.
-------------------- Bruce Evans Crown Graphics Chino, CA graphics@westcoach.net Posts: 913 | From: Chino, CA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Bruce did you miss my post? I have a 24" roland. In 7 years I have put 2 mother boards in it at $650 a wack. Haven't done crap to my 4B. My 4B runs off of flexi which lets me speed up the cutting. My 30" S750 cut/draws/pounces 28" high. I have the best of both worlds and if my 4B went down tomorrow I would have it fixed. I also see lots of people putting huge amounts of money into old cars just because they are cool. My 4B is pretty cool and it makes me money. Don't get me wrong if my 24" roland crapped the bed tomorrow, I would replace it also. I have four plotters in my shop. They all have there pros and cons. I also have about 100 quills, some of those are better than others.
-------------------- Rob Larkham Sign Techniques Inc. Chicopee, Ma Posts: 607 | From: Chester, Ma. | Registered: Apr 2002
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i got 2 rolands pnc-1000 and a pnc-1100. the 1000 ive had since 93....and its a workhorse, havent done anything to it except replace blades. i bought a pnc-1100 on ebay almost 3 years ago. again i do nothing to it except cut 24" wide whereas my 1000 will only do 20". if you buy a roland PRO machine...its better then any 4b.....oh and my pnc-1000 cost me $1600 in 93(used) and my pnc-1100 cost me $1000 3 years ago. so for $2600 i got 2 plotters!!!!! and when i buy a new plotter you can bet it will be a roland PRO not the vinyl express of roland. oh and i almost forgot... i didnt need to buy fonts, or a $4000 program to run the plotter.....i CUT DIRECT FROM COREL DRAW 3 to start with..... and now iam up to 7!!!!!
[ July 20, 2003, 03:15 AM: Message edited by: old paint ]
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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In 79 I bought my first and last 4b I traded up to the sprint in 89. I still have the sprint that I use to cut things from my edge, which I bought used in 99. But I had to get my edge fixed this year, cost me 1500 bucks, but they replaced everything broken or worn, it was like getting a new machine. However, with a plotter, you can get a 30 inch summa that works at 33ips if you can keep up with it that fast, I keep mine set on 10ips, for 3500 bucks new. and it is a super plotter, I've had mine for a year now, still works perfectly. I paid 13,000 for my 4b and the same for my sprint, too bad summa wasn't around then. Bill
-------------------- Bill & Barbara Biggs Art's Sign Service, Inc. Clute, Texas, USA Home of The Great Texas Mosquito Festival Proud 10 year Supporter of the Letterheads Website www.artssigns.com "MrBill-" on the chat page MailTo:biggsbb@sbcglobal.net Posts: 1020 | From: Lake Jackson,Tx | Registered: Nov 1998
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Our setup is about the same as yours, running 4b with grahpix advantage, bought the 4b used in 89 and added the software later. The only problem we had was the fan went out which we bought one from a supply company and my husband replaced it, no problem. Then one day the error message read out over and over - I called gerber and they said it was the motherboard- quoted me about what they quoted you, I about fell on the floor, my husband blew it out with the airhose and all was well! Might not work the same for everyone! No problems since, I keep knocking on wood! I lost my husband, Art, to cancer 2years ago, I let the business go down the tubes through lack of heart but the 4b is here pulling me through one job at a time paying the bills. Started checking out the Bullboard again last month after a long time and maybe I still have some heart left for it. Good luck, check out your other options before turning over the bucks - don't give up on the old workhorse.
Well... just to keep the conversation going... I bought my 4b used in '88 or '89. Outside of a few springs and such..I never had much trouble with it. I always ran it as a "passive" plotter, driving it with SignLab.
While I did replace it 4 or 5 years ago with a Mutoh SC650 (for the cutting height more than anything), I still keep that ugly blue box around "just in case".
I'm as far from being a Gerber fan as you're going to find. I really disagree with a lot of their policies and business practices..but I can't deny that my 4b was ( and may still someday be) dependable as can be.
So, I guess in essance, I've got the best of both worlds.
Keep on keepin on
Brian Briskie
Posts: 465 | From: / | Registered: Jan 2000
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Hi Hedz Just me again. After much fiddling around and a few tears, IT WORKS! Plus, the 4E came with lotsa neato parts, all handy to have around. Its mutha board was iffy, but mine was still good- no need for the LMK module. It's much quieter but slighty slower than the 4B, but 5 years newer and much prettier. (well maybe not THAT much) I was constanly oiling, wiping w/alcohol, and giving the 4B blowjobs (with compressed air, sickos)This one doesn't seem as high-maintenance. I got the $8&change sensor & am gonna have somebody over in Mars solder it. Gerber was gonna refab everything for $2400, not just install the sensor, but for $450, I think I got a better deal. I will defend the 4B, as much as I hate it, always. It's sprocket fed, ugly, heavy, & bulky, but it usually works. Running thru a Dell & Graphix Advantage, it does what I need it to do. My arms are not only too short to box with God, they're too short to mess with a bigger roll of vinyl than 15". And thank God I can paint...weird, but this last week most of my stuff was of the 1-Shot variety. But guess what, folks? We had a doozy of a windstorm here yesterday, and it blew down my poer lines, so even tho the 4E works, I CAN'T USE IT!!! WAAAAA! Love- JILL
-------------------- That is like a Mr. Potato Head with all the pieces in the wrong place. -Russ McMullin Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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