posted
After reading a post and following the link to the post on Snappers it got me to thinking that the answer to my problems with the zoning board here could be Snapping!
Let me back up a bit, I decided to get back into the sign trade after a twenty year odyssey into food and beverage management at a resort in the Florida Keys.
(After visiting several shops around Florida and visiting the Sign Craft offices in Ft. Myers and picking up a car load of back issues to research the perfect sign shop!)
I found the perfect building, great location at a great price, lease with option, put down a deposit and started building what I thought would be the best floor plan for a sign shop.
Then I went to the City Licensing Department, the shop is within the city limits, and was told I needed to go to the County Building and Zoning Department and get their approval and then come back with their approval and then the city would issue me an Occupational License.
I, being the Honorable, Up Right, Law Abiding, Patriotic All-American Citizen that I am, went to the County Building and Zoning Department where they gave me a little piece of paper with the names of ten other County Departments I needed to go to and have the proper person at each of the ten other County Departments sign the paper on the proper line behind their respective department saying that they had in fact inspected the building I was going to set up a sign shop in and that the aforementioned building that I was to house my sign shop in met with their approval! Places like the Health Department, Fire Department, Sheriff's Department etc., etc., etc...
Did I tell you that each of the ten departments charges a $25.00 fee for inspecting my shop and signing their name on the little line behind the name of the department that they represented saying that they inspected my shop and it met with their approval.
Well just in case I didn't; "Each of the ten departments charges a $25.00 fee for inspecting my shop and signing their name on the little line behind the name of the department that they represented saying that they inspected my shop and it met with their approval."
Anyway, back to my story.
I went to every place listed on their little piece of paper and after more then two weeks I got every person that was the right person, to sign my little piece of paper with their names on the ten little lines behind each department that they represented saying that they inspected my shop and it met with their approval.
I took my little piece of paper with the ten signatures of the correct ten people in the correct ten departments saying that they inspected my shop and it met with their approval back to the County Building and Zoning Department where the correct person from that department could sign their name on the final line that needed signed on so I could get my County Business License. That person was on vacation for the next week and was told I needed to come back then.
After a week I showed up bright and early on the appointed morning of the appointed day so that the right person from the County Building and Zoning Department could sign my little piece of paper with the ten signatures from ten other places I had to go and have the proper person at each place sign the paper saying they had inspected the building I was going to set up a sign shop in and that my shop met with their approval was there.
After the correct person signed my little piece of paper and I paid another $250.00 licensing fee to the county they handed me a County Business License and told me that because my shop was located inside the City Limits that I would still need to get a City Occupational License.
All I needed to do was take the County Business License to the City Licensing Department and show them my New County Business License and they would be happy to issue me a City Occupational License.
Well, being the Honorable, Up Right, Law Abiding, Patriotic All-American Citizen that I am, with my brand new County Business License in hand I headed of to the City Licensing Department and showed them my Brand New County Business License and ask for a City Occupational License.
The lady behind the counter at the City Licensing Department looked at my Brand new County Business License asked, "What to you do at your sign shop?" I said, "Paint signs."
She said, "Do you spray paint them?" I said, "Sometimes, and sometimes I use a brush."
She said, "Do you paint cars and trucks?" I said, "Sometimes and sometimes I paint on buildings and sometimes I paint on other things."
She said, "Is most of your business painting cars and trucks?" I said, "I sure hope so." (I hope most of my business is doing graphics and pinstriping on cars and trucks.
She said, "Ok, take this piece of paper with the names of ten City Departments you need go to and have the proper person at each of the ten departments sign the piece of paper on the proper line behind the Department that they represent stating they have inspected the building you are going to set up a sign shop in and that the aforementioned building meets with their approval!" Places like the City Health Department, City Fire Department, City Police Department etc., etc., etc...
I went to every place listed on their little piece of paper and after another two weeks I got every person that was the right person, to sign my little piece of paper with their names on the ten little lines behind each department that they represented saying that they inspected my shop and it met with their approval.
Did I tell you that each of the ten city departments also charges a $25.00 fee for inspecting my shop and signing their name on the little line behind the name of the department that they represented saying that they inspected my shop and it met with their approval. I did tell you that didn't I?
Well anyway, I took my little piece of paper with the ten signatures of the correct ten people in the correct ten departments saying that they inspected my shop and it met with their approval back to the City Licensing Department where the correct person from that department, the same lady behind the counter from two weeks ago said, "It looks like everything is in order and all you needed to do now was get the EPA to approve your paint booth!"
I said, "What paint booth?" She said, "The one you paint the cars and trucks in."
I said, "I don’t paint cars and trucks, I paint signs." She said, "You told me you painted cars and trucks!"
I said, "I paint signs on cars and trucks, I do not paint cars and trucks." She said, "The only category for painting "signs on" cars and trucks that we have is an Auto Body Shop and that's the only license we will issue you."
I said, "You have one other sign shop in the city limits and three more in the county and they all have an Occupational License for a sign shop don"t they?. How did they get theirs?" She said, "They don't paint signs, they use stick on letters." I said, "I will be using the same type of letters as they do also I’ll be sand blasting wooden signs along with painting."
She said, "Oh, then you"ll also need a manufacturing license, you need to take this piece of paper and have the appropriate person from each department listed inspect your plant to make sure it complies with their requirements."
I walked out, not really understanding what had just happened but knowing I was $750.00 in the hole to the City and County not counting the money for the building and I still didn’t have an occupational license.
Then I read this post on Snapping.
Hummmmm! Let me think about this!
If I get a step van???
Steve
[ July 17, 2003, 06:23 PM: Message edited by: Steve Levitt ]
-------------------- Steve Levitt Signs Of All Kinds Okeechobee, Fl. 34974 Posts: 64 | From: Okeechobee, Florida | Registered: May 2003
| IP: Logged |
I loved your narrative and I can only wonder if your "real name" is Arlo Guthrie, cause your story sure reminded me of "Alice's Restaurant"!!!
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
posted
Never volunter more than they ask. Thats the rule when dealing with any regulatory agency. After you open then you just add on little extras to the bizz and they will not say anything.
So, go back and tell them " Im goona be vinyl cutting shop. I use computers to design and cut plastic tape into letters and graphics for signs.
Get open and away you go
-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5273 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
Alices restaurant all the way! Made me hungry for turkey!
I agree with Curtis, tell them you realized the quicky-stickies in town had the right business plan all along, that them for helping you see the errors of your ways, & line back up for your Q'y S'y permit.
& watch out wit that patriotism, it can come back 'n bite ya.
posted
isnt it lover-ly....all the crap you got to go thru to make a livin? iam puttin up a building on MY property. well, now 1st thing i run int is i cant park my "business truck" in my residence garage. i got over that one....with some simple examples like the cop who takes his "business car" to his residential home. next i cant build the size i want...i can only build 1/2 the sq.ft of my home. and if i want bigger then i can do go before the "variance board", now this is a cute one. they get $350 of my money, i spend more money sending letters to every residence within 500 ft of my property alerting them that iam gona build this building on my property and the date of the hearing. if they wish to object to what iam doing they need to show up and and say so. all it takes is one, and the variance board keeps my $350 and iam out all the money for the registered letters i had to send. now i can only build what they allow me to build...after 3 mos of doing as they wish. and iam also self employeed as a "snapper". as far as they are concerned.
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
Steve, you are a very patient individual. Thank you for sharing your tale of woo is such stylish manner. I would have posted something like this with more than a fair share of explitives. Had a similar issue with getting my shop insured, but nearly so many individuals to deal with. Question is: What have you learned?
-------------------- "Are we having fun yet?" Peter Schuttinga DZines Sign Studio 1617 Millstream rd Victoria BC V9B-6G4 Posts: 521 | From: Victoria BC | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
Steve...hardly into it when "8x10 glossy photos" pops into mind!
I think it's great that Arlo lives in us,all these many years on.
Call in Mr. Bean, he'll get the job done!!
All the Best, John Lennig / SignRider
-------------------- John Lennig / Big Top Sign Arts 5668 Ewart Street, Burnaby, British Columbia, Canada bigtopya@hotmail.com 604.451.0006 Posts: 2184 | From: Burnaby, British Columbia,Canada | Registered: Nov 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
Geez, here in Tampa I went in, filled out a couple pages of paperwork, gave them $60 bucks and walked out with a business license. At my previous shop I was told by the license department to say I screen printed so I could get a printer's license which was permitted by the zoning.
-------------------- Dennis Goddard
Gibsonton Fl Posts: 1050 | From: Tampa Fl USA | Registered: Apr 2000
| IP: Logged |
A few years ago the county and city adopted the same building and licensing codes as Dade / Broward Counties did after Hurricane Andrew. (It doesn't matter that we are more then 100 miles north of Miami and not on the coast, we're in the middle of the state, and have not been affected by a hurricane sense 1928, and then it was high water from the lake not so much high winds. They built a very high dike around the lake after that and we’ve had no more problems.) We have some of the most stringent building and licensing codes in the eastern U.S.
I am checking into a mobile shop license in the next county to where I will be doing most of my business, the county I actually live in.
I am not sure how it works, but I know there are mobile marine repair shops all around the lake and they cross county lines and work in each county. I do not know if they have license in each county but I’m calling one of them today to find out.
Steve
-------------------- Steve Levitt Signs Of All Kinds Okeechobee, Fl. 34974 Posts: 64 | From: Okeechobee, Florida | Registered: May 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Steve, I don't know how Florida is about business license. Here's what is done in Georgia. I buy a business license in the county that I live in and then buy an occupational license in any county I do business in.I pay $135 for my license in my county and $50 for an occupational license in the adjoining county where most of my business comes from. Good luck! Judy
-------------------- Judy Pate Signs By Judy Albany, Georgia USA 229-435-6824
Live simply...Love generously...Care deeply...Speak kindly...Leave the rest to God. Posts: 2621 | From: Albany,GA,USA | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
I found that as a veteran I can get the county business license free. I did need to get a use permit because the zoning differs from my intended use. You apparently live in an area where the local government employs more folks that don't fix holes in roads, and you need to support their families!
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6712 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
Who are the 10 departments you had to have sign off?...that's ridiculous.
Around here I used to have 4 different business licenses, becausemyshop was at my home, which is located in the county. So I had to have a license for each of the towns where I worked.
Now, however, the county has passed an ordinance requiring a county occupational license. So I got that, and now I don't need the others, because they say the county license takes precedence over the other city ones, because those cities are in the county.
So if you already have a county license you may not need a city license.Or, more likely, because your business is located in the city,you don't need the county license, just the city one. You shouldn't need both.
If you think this is fun, wait till you start drawing permits.............that's when snapping starts looking better and better.
-------------------- Jeff Ogden 8727 NE 68 Terr. Gainesville FL, 32609 Posts: 2138 | From: 8827 NE 68 Terr Gainesville Fl 32609 | Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
Reminds me of the fun I had pulling my building permit. They wanted a copy of the contract, copy of the engineer plans, copy of the deed, and I had to pay a filing fee at the courthouse. The building inspector, plans and conmtract in hand sent my building permit and valued my $18k building at $97,500 and charged me $467 for the permit. After I saw the $97.500 figure, I went to see the building inspector.
I said, "look, how do you explain putting a $97,000 price tag on an $18,000 metal building?" He says "Because it's commercial" I said "does that make it worth that much? Could I sell the building for that?" He says, "probly" After he hem-haws around for awhile about it not being his fault but the State's he says "does that building have central heat and air?" I said "you've got the plans, it's just a woodworking shop" he goes "well I'll take off for that" I said "how much?" he goes "48,000"
So now an $18,000 metal building with no plumbing or wiring (just a shell) which is suddenly worth $97.500 drops to $49,500 and my permit drops to $272. Not proportionl but at least it was something. And he all of the sudden got real nice.
Anyway, to shorten a long story, he never inspected didly squat. Found out later that he was getting paid by commission.
Sure is hot out there without that $48,000 air conditioner.
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7403 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
Interesting... and I used to think New England was the most overregulated part of the country.
I've been in business 15 years, started in one state (Rhode Island) and moved to Connecticut in 1990. I have a Connecticut Sales And Use Tax Permit, which requires me to collect 6% on all goods and services sold in Connecticut, in return for which I have "the priveledge of doing business in the State of Connecticut" (to quote the application form). I do plenty of work in Rhode Island (three miles away) but that is tax exempt as far as Connecticut is concerned, and I have never paid Rhode Island a dime (those thieves would just steal it, like with all their taxes). My town has never asked me to obtain a business licence; they know I'm here, I go to town hall for permits, and occasionally do a sign for one department or another. I own my property (a business condo zoned commercial/light industrial) and pay town property taxes. There is no functioning county government structure in Connecticut, so that's not a factor. I've never applied for any sort of licence, nor have I ever been asked for one. Nor have I ever been inspected, rejected, injected, dejected, or had to show the judge the twenty-seven eight-by-ten glossy color photographs with the circles and the arrows and the paragraph on the back describing each and every one. Either I'm lucky, or god looks after the ignorant, or I just don't live in Florida (for which I am eternally grateful).
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
We had to register with the State [Massachusetts] and the town,real easy. The bitch was having to get a Construction Supervisors license, another name for builders license, to be able to pull sign permits and or erect signs in this part of the state. Have to take the course ,pass the test ,show experiance as a builder. Then pay an annual fee to keep it. Royal pain in the butt.
-------------------- Bob & Marcia Peach Peach Signs Inc Sandwich, MA rpeach9828@aol.com Posts: 1020 | From: Sandwich, MA | Registered: Jan 2002
| IP: Logged |
City of New Orleans comes to mind when I read this post. Is the heart and soul of our trade being extinguished (censored and stifled) in front of our eyes? Arlo is a chip off the old block!
the last line of the next to the last verse, and the last verse..
this trains got the disappearing railroad blues
Good night, America, how are you? Don't you know me I'm your native son I'm the train they call The City of New Orleans I'll be gone five hundred miles when the day is done.
-------------------- Deb Fowler
"It's kind of fun to do the impossible - Walt Disney (1901-1966) Posts: 5373 | From: Loves Park, Illinois | Registered: Aug 1999
| IP: Logged |
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic