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1: Why is it so hard to learn lessons? There's a "kid" (15 or so) that's a friend of the landlords. Their dogs followed him over to the barn, near my pigs in a pen. The dogs started barking at the pigs, and chasing them back and forth in the pen. I was about a hundred yards away, and yelled sternly at the dogs to stop. They did, but next thing I know this guy is telling them "good dog". I figured maybe he meant good for stopping. But I went to talk to him anyway. He got rather cocky, was saying that it's the dogs' instinct to chase animals. I told him the dogs (Rottwielers) were smart enough to discern between a caged animal and a wild one. Also that even if he didn't care about me or mine, the landlord raises cattle, and nobody will be able to raise anything if this keeps up. He totally disregarded me.
A couple days later, He's outside riding his horse and the dogs are on both sides of him, barking and scaring the horse. It's rearing, about to throw him. His reaction is to yell at the horse and slap it. Bad horse training from what I know. (We're Monty Roberts fans.)
I told my brother in law about it and said: "Surely he's got to get it now!". He said probably not, and sadly I think he's right.
But am I much different? I don't know. I was talking with Ed at the local sign supply place, recomending this web site. I told him a few things about it, then added: "Whatever you do, don't go there and say you're out to undercut somebody's prices." We laughed, and started talking about that aspect of the trade. This was perfect, because it's a conversation I wanted to have with him, and it happened without really trying. Who more qualified to know? He said he's seen 'em come-n-go. I asked what they did with their used equipment, thinking that a bunch of used computers for sale would be further proof of bad decisions. He said maybe they use them for doorstops, who knows?
All this to say I was wondering about documenting the consequences of running a business the wrong way, but now I'm wondering if anybody would learn from it.
2: I've talked to four people in the last couple weeks about this web site. I was thinking maybe a card would help them remember it. Oh well, you know how it is, even if I got ten or so, I might not talk to another sign person for along time. Also, what about a silk screened sign to put up in the local suppliers place. There might be some conflict of interest I'm overlooking, just a thought. My "Coffee cups toward residency" is up to about 18 bucks. One thing I try to do when ordering a book or subscription from a ministry is to send in twice the amount, explaining that the other half is for someone that wants the same thing, but can't afford it right now. I recently got a really neat letter back saying a guy in prison now has a subscription because of that. So if I keep saving money after I get enough for "the tax", is there a sign person in prison anywhere that would want to be a resident?
3: could opperating a 4-B be considered a historical re-enactment?
4: there's a really neat post about 3-tier pricing, but I'm too nervous to go there.
5:It's been awhile since my last "Blather Report", so now's the time. I'm totally re-arranging my shop, and found a coro 4x8 I had forgotten about. A year or two ago, there was a bus driver that was playing some disgusting stuff on the bus radio while the kids were in it. (One of those "extreme" stations.) A father of a child on the bus asked the driver to turn it off. The driver refused and was being unreasonable. The father got quite ticked, grabbed the guy by the collar, and told him to turn it off. The father was then facing assault charges. While the trial was pending, I put out a sign that said: "W------ B--- is no criminal, he was stopping a crime."
There you have it folks, today's official right-wing blather, sincerly, Radar!
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
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Instead of grabbing the bus driver by the collar he should have run a copper wire from the number one spark plug in through the firewall in to the drivers seat and up just under the cloth of his seat. then wet the seat and watch the fun when he starts the bus the next morning,
How " extreme " is that? lol
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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Neighbor's dogs. After years of observation, I've come to the conclusion that dogs tend to take on or adapt to the disposition of their owners. If the owner is friendly and outgoing, the dog often times is. If he's beligerant or hostile, the dog will be aggressive.
Our beagle has been attacked numerous times in our yard by a chow and some rottweiler crosses. One dog, a lab, still attacks her ocasionally. The neighbors are good friends but the lab is their spoiled "baby"....Can do no wrong. Another neighbor had a chow which kept coming over attacking the dog, and growling at my 8 year old son. The neighbors would not keep him away and even "sicked" him on some of other neighbors as they walked down their driveway next to his property. After the sheriff's department failed to do anything about it, I killed the dog. The neighbor came over on my property, shook his fist in my face, and threatened me. (see theory above) Not long afterwards, a neighbor's pit bull (in town)ripped a little 8 year old boy's throat out. The boy died.
Another neighbor's German Shepherds attacked a cow as she was birthing a calf. They killed the calf and ripped up the cows genitals. She had to be put down
Dogs are pack animals and WILL get into more trouble when they are with their "peers". You'd better watch those rottweilers because they're absolutely unpredictable. If they get to those pigs they will most likely hurt or kill them. They might attack the cows or even children. It's no joke and happens all the time.
[ July 12, 2003, 09:30 AM: Message edited by: Wayne Webb ]
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7403 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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Bob, that might get him to change the channel. Find one that plays the Debbie Boone song, "You Light Up My Life."
Wayne, thanks for the warning about dogs. These dogs are great with our children, I think they just need some proper guidance/training.
What gets me is how blatant that lesson was, and the guy still didn't get it. As far as people not pricing right, and closing their shops, my wife pointed out that the equipment probably is on payments. So the machines get re-po'ed.
I'm wondering if making an imaginary business up, and figuring out the overhead and hourly rate would help low pricers see their true costs. Of course, if you're selling the same thing as everyone else, what other incentive can you offer, but a lower price? I know this is alot of re-hashing a subject, but I'm trying to think of a more positive and maybe productive approach to the price issue.
Joey, I figure a guy that stole something, ought to pay that thing back, not spend x years in prison. Now how that would be arranged is a difficult matter. I was really just kidding about sign people in prison. What were they guilty of?...hmmm,
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
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Regarding point #3... If you wonder whether using a Signmaker IV-B is a historical re-enactment, my using a IV-A is akin to fossilization. Although I have gigabytes on my computer, I have to chip off the trilobites on the Signmaker to use it.
-------------------- David Harding A Sign of Excellence Carrollton, TX Posts: 5084 | From: Carrollton, TX, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I have my original Gerber 4-A. I am considering building a pedestal display case for it. Sort of a memorial to heaven only knows what! Conversation piece or coffee table maybe....
-------------------- Frisby Signs, Inc. El Dorado, Arkansas Posts: 902 | From: El Dorado, Arkansas, USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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Roy do you remember those magazine ads for the Gerber years ago that showed the family standing around in spacesuits, while the Gerber was running, saying "I'm sure glad dad bought the Gerber!" I guess it's accurate as far as durrability goes.
I was ondering what clothes were fashionable in the 80's. Every historical re-enactment must be performed in period clothing!
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
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I think I like you! "One thing I try to do when ordering a book or subscription from a ministry is to send in twice the amount, explaining that the other half is for someone that wants the same thing, but can't afford it right now. I recently got a really neat letter back saying a guy in prison now has a subscription because of that." There was a time when that wouldn't have been so amazing - it's good to know some of it still exists. KUDOS TO YOU!
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5496 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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The original Signmaker released by Gerber was the Signmaker III. The III stood for the three things it did, cut vinyl, make pounce patterns and draw paper layouts.
Many people who saw them at the trade shows, not knowing the origin of the moniker "Signmaker III ", thought they were just behind the times, having missed the first two models, and wishing they had bought one earlier. A person has to remember the Signmaker, for ten grand, absolutely revolutionized the sign industry. Some would argue it destroyed it as we knew it, but that is a different emotional post.
For one of the Letterheads meets in Denver in the mid '80s, I built a glass display case, captioned: "Have you ever wondered what happened to Signmakers I and II?" Inside, I had a paint brush with an electric cord labeled "Signmaker I" and a roller with an electric cord labeled "Signmaker II". I had a UL label on it reading "Undertakers Laboratories" and changed the manufacturer's name to "Goober Scientific". The Gerber rep wanted to take it back to the home office.
I didn't let him have it because I was still mad at Gerber for foisting off on the industry the GDS (Graphic Design Station) and then charging the suckers (like me) who bought it twelve hundred smackers for two floppies to upgrade it to the GDS II, which was only marginally useful. The GDS was an Apple IIe based digitizing station which cost around seven grand. I thought they owed the upgrades for free to those who had believed their hype and bought the product, only to find it did not work nearly as claimed. I felt charging us big bucks for the bug fixes was outrageously audacious. I did not know Gerber was just ahead of times--Bill Gates became the richest man in the world with the same business plan a few years later.
The Signmaker III did not autokern and sales did not take off until the IV was released, which had kerning tables of a sort burned into the memory of the font cards.
-------------------- David Harding A Sign of Excellence Carrollton, TX Posts: 5084 | From: Carrollton, TX, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Kelly, thanks so much for the kind words, I do donate in that way, but I revealed it just to joke about sign people in prison, (By the sign police? A.K.A. Dave Butler). Actually, Jesus said to be very secret about donations.
Dave, That's funny! I guess I'm pretty hi-tech after all. Doug Allen's got nuthin' on me! HEY! would somebody get those goats outta here? Man, how's a guy to get anything done around here?
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
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Hey James, To date it has been impossible to document running a sign shop business wrong since they do not stay in business, or out of jail, or sober long enough to get any credible "information", LOL.
-------------------- Signs Sweet Home Alabama
oneshot on chat
"Look like a girl, act like a lady, think like a man, work like a dog" Posts: 5758 | From: "Sweet Home" Alabama | Registered: Mar 2003
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who me? what? what'd I do? nuthin on who? Oh, Radar no nuthin much anyway...
quote: 4: there's a really neat post about 3-tier pricing, but I'm too nervous to go there.
'least I'm not afraid of heights!
I started in the line of work in about '89 & used the 4B. I remember having to hit all those +'s & -'s between characters to achieve kerning, & with just a LED display, always having to cut or plot to really see how it would look.
posted
Like Doug mentioned, the kerning on the IV was not the greatest, although better than the III. I used to do many signs for Trammell Crow Company. After Gerber finally released their typeface, Lectura, I still had a mantra I had to recite in order to space their logo correctly. Something like: “T<<<r<a<m>m<e<l>l...” and so forth. I don’t miss that.
-------------------- David Harding A Sign of Excellence Carrollton, TX Posts: 5084 | From: Carrollton, TX, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Sheila, what I was thinking about was reaching out to people new to the business. I was wondering if they could be shown the true costs of operating a sign shop. The part about how others have gone out of business would just be an addition to the effort.
Some things I think about for a long time, even years. It may never come to anything, but "a journey of a thousand miles starts with one step."
Recently I've told 4 people about this site, but we've got to be careful what kind of reception they receive when they get here. Think of their situation. I'm wondering how these new comers even get interested in the trade. Obviously, from postings here, many are in related fields.
But are there entrepenure (sp?) magazines out there touting the benefits of opperating your own sign shop? These are folks that have invested in something, hoping to break out of the financial mold most are in.
It might not be that important to be concerned what those people are up to, just concern myself with what quality of work I'm doing. But if it is worthy of concern, then I'm going to kick around more productive ideas.
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
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