posted
Just curious as to how you handle doing logos?
A customer who does NOT want a sign right now, wants me to design him up some logos for his new business. Without asking him yet, I assume he will use it for newspaper advertising and such. What kind of price range do you offer and do you send the customers many different formats for advertising with, within the same logo design price of the job?
I have heard, on average, 3 logos @ $100. You don't like 'em, you still give me $100. I told my customer $90 and I work for 2 hours dilegently and come up with 3 or 5 or 12 logos/ font choices to choose from but, then I am faced with an indecisive customer who has narrowed it down to 4 designs and then I go back to the drawing board to finally, mix n match from what I have sent him or what have you. Doesn't sound right does it?
I charge $250.00 for a logo "package". I come up with 3 or 4 quick drafts to get a better idea of what the customer wants. Then I tweek the final design until the customer is satisfied. This can be a really simple process, or as you probably know, a real PITA. I had one customer that drove me crazy with small changes and pickiness, and after discussing the situation of endless hours of changes, he was happy to pay another $200.00 to cover the extra time.
I print up a nice cover page with their logo in color on photo paper. I print out a few pages of full-color pmt's and a black and white version of the logo. I also include a floppy disk in a nice clear plastic sleeve attached to the inside of the back cover. I use a clip folder with a clear cover and a grey plastic back page. I have a sample package done up, and it is easy to sell the customer the package when they see they get more than just the concept.
I'm curious to see what other do, and I know there will be lots that charge more than $250.00.
posted
We start @ $250-500 for a concept or logo development. That's about 2-4 hours of time. Once we have a general direction, we charge a typical design block of time for about $120 an hour with a 4 hour minimum. Once their time is used up, we invoice for additional time before we continue any work. However, it really depends on the client. We will charge more if we know we can get more, if we deal with a committee or others, besides who we meet with, are involved with the approval process.
Havin' fun,
Checkers
-------------------- a.k.a. Brian Born www.CheckersCustom.com Harrisburg, Pa Work Smart, Play Hard Posts: 3775 | From: Harrisburg, Pa. U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
The value of logo design is an age old question for signmakers; we have always tended to under-value our talent. I've been able to find a process that works for our shop by following the lead of professional design studios. The proper price to charge for your work will revolve around 1)abilities, 2)your shop rate, and 3)the inherent value your work gives to the client.
In my experience, offering more than three concepts will overwhelm the client. If I haven't been able to find an answer with three renderings, then I didn't do my homework properly. Homework includes an 1)interview with the client 2)research - books and internet, 3)sleeping on it for a week or two, 4)and then sketching out some ideas.
I allow at least six weeks for the process to be complete. The fact that I have a process adds a huge amount of value and credibility to the service I'm offering. This methodology not only allows me to charge more, but I think I also come up with far better work.
posted
Hey Corey, get the book by Dan Antonelli called Logo Design for Small Business. It's not just a how to about only creating logos, it's an informative look into the business side of it.
I charge a $350.00 rate for small business, and if I were to get a really large business (on a national level) I would charge more due to the increased exposure. You think the people that designed the Pepsi logo charged $350.00? I think not.
Some customers may think, man that's high, but with all the nitpicking little changes they'll want, it's worth it to charge that right off. If it gets really complicated,then it could go higher than the $350.00.
You are selling them something that will help them sell themselves. In turn, if done effectively, it will lead to more revenue for them, so the initial $350.00 investment is small change.
I usually give 3 designs, I'll start with simply typing the name etc, then working with different fonts and graphic elements etc. Then I'll leave it alone overnight and start fresh in the morning. Doing this makes what you thought was a great design the night before, seem not so nice after all. It's chance to re evaluate and make the design better.
Hope this helps, I'm no expert, works for me.
[ July 08, 2003, 02:55 PM: Message edited by: Tony B ]
-------------------- Tony Broussard Graphic Details Digital Media Loreauville, LA Posts: 395 | From: Loreauville, LA | Registered: Jul 1999
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posted
We have had real success offering A, (just one) logo design. Price varies depending on how specific the customer is. We charge between 175-300. I find an indepth interview will drastically lessen the time we spend trying to get it right. We have a high success rate of matching a logo to a client. Here again, I agree with the idea of presentation. That can make or break the acceptance of a logo. If you throw a piece of copy paper with a logo slapped across it, you will greatly dimiknish your client satisfaction. My customer leaves with a custom made CD with their logo burned into it. After all, they paid for it.
[ July 08, 2003, 02:57 PM: Message edited by: Rick Beisiegel ]
""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3489 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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On a small business side, we're charging $500-$650 - which is a bargain. On the corporate side, we're around $2500- $4000.
I've been on a real logo design tear lately-- last week I banged out 6 of them. Very heavy-duty brain power is required to do good logo design. I did a few a day, and was totally fried afterwards. Forget about hourly rates, for the most part. Some logos take me an hour, others three or four or more. Should I charge less for the hour logos, which might make my hourly rate $500 an hour? WHy penalize myself because I work faster than most? That doesnt make any sense.
Same can be said of anything - why base prices on hourly rates if you're twice as fast as everyone else? With that same philosophy, you'll produce twice as much as everyone else, yet be paid the same amount as them. I'm not going to charge less simply because after ten years, I'm really fast at that work (or other work).
I'll offer an hourly rate for 'brainless' work like web typesetting/revisions - but not for 'brain' work - especially logo design. Bottom line, use of my 'brain' is expensive - but I need not overtly reinforce that by quoting a rate higher than most attorneys or doctors for that matter.
"Some are born to move the world, to live their fantasies. But most of us just dream about the things we'd like to be." - Rush Posts: 1192 | From: Washington, NJ | Registered: Feb 1999
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I met this girl on the net who works at a big ad agency in Florida. They base logo package pricing on the value of the company. Of course they get these big clients who pay like 20 to 30k for a logo. They call it branding. The guru here at the paper who has a pretty prestigeous graphic design business on the side says he just charges $100 an hour for everything.
-------------------- Glenn S. Harris
....back in the sign trade full time. Posts: 293 | From: Baton Rouge, LA, USA | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
The company I work for does "branding" which entails a lot more than designing a logo, right now we are putting finishing touches on a Graphics Manual that is around 60 pages, with many hours of work in it, prior to getting it to that stage. It is interesting to say the least to go from a sign company mentality of 200 bucks a logo to 6 figure branding projects, the process is way different, I have spent a lot of time researching, doing presentation on "positioning" "philosophy" and "goals" before even thinking about design. When I step down to do a 500 dollar logo, and I catch flak by the customer, it makes me look forward to the bigger, more professional approach.
Rick
-------------------- Rick Chavez Hemet, CA Posts: 1539 | From: Hemet,CA U.S.A. | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
Nancy, that page on your site is Outstanding!!! those who read this thread, but maybe passed over that link,, GO BACK!
Dave, I think most business owners would love to talk about their business. Especially new owners of new business's, so just tell them you want to hear about what they make or sell, or do for people. Who they expect is going to be they main market (young, old, male or female, etc. etc.) I'm sure there are a lot of good questions, but if you can just get them talking, you can pick up a lot of good info, & also break the ice of how they percieve a logo consultation is supposed to go. Later finding out what thoughts they have about the look of their logo will be important, but I would get the overview of the whole business first.
Cory, I always explain that there is no guarantee that they will settle for what can be done for a given quote. I don't mention a quote untill I finish a consultation, but I may say that I have done logos anywhere from $100 to $1000, so they understand why I need more info first. After I see a little of what they seem to expect I can guess that 2 or 3 hours may be enough to put something in front of them that they will like. I let them know I will need to be paid for the time I spend, & I will give a few variations of an incomplete design at our second meeting before I've burned up all the time they agreed to pay for (& paid half of already) This is when the revisions are discussed & if they sound like we are close enough to finish in the original allotment of time, I jus proceed. If it looks like they are picky, or will not be able to settle for a 2 or 3 hour design, this is the time to start talking about more money, or even the worst case scenario of stopping the work half done & half paid if they don't think I can meet their needs at this point.
[ July 09, 2003, 04:41 PM: Message edited by: Doug Allan ]
So, if Jo-Jo's Garage came to you and said they wanted a logo design then, it would cost more than if they came to you and said that they wanted a 4x8 MDO sign and had no logo to go from and to just chose a really cool font and tweak it abit to be eye catching - like alot of us do. Then, a month later, they're using that font design for all of their advetising (newspaper).
In Jo-Jo's case you would put language on the invoice/contract that the artwork belongs to you (or your sign co.) and any and all reproduction by any means without permission to do so is prohibited. He may not listen but at least having it written gives you legal recourse.
You can use this opportunity to sell them an artwork package, whereby YOU handle all reproduction by dealing with your own circle of business pro's, ie: the printers, t-shirt guys, and other service bureaus that you *should* align your business with. They can give you comissions for the referrals, you can mark up their services, and you can offer them the same benefits.. all the while maintaining control of the artwork and making some extra bank in the process.
You can also sell the reproduction rights directly to Jo-Jo and let him out of your hair, but having that control keeps people coming back to you.
Offering the design/repro package gives you the opportunity to tell your customer "Look, this artwork belongs to me, and by the time you have business cards made, t-shirts made, phonebook ads made, flyers, brochures, coffee mugs, can coolers etc etc etc, you're looking at much more for all the setup costs at each company. I can save you money and maintain a consistent identity for your company by not only providing these companies with high quality artwork they dont have to reproduce, but doing the legwork finding these companies for you!"
Of course if they don't go for the repro package deal you can sell them the logo package outright including vector art and give 'em the rights to it, but AT A HIGHER COST than the logo itsself...
Logo design is one thing, but reproduction rights are another! Charge for them!
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
Mr. Tyler Brule from Canada, managed to sell his branding and logo design services for the lousy little sum of 70-80- Mio. Francs (approx.$50 Mio.) to the new "Swiss" Airline. The result of his efforts was presented to the public with great pride and pomp. Check it out and be impressed... www.lotus-tours.com/logo/airline/lx.gif http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1793289.stm I have just returned from Switzerland where everybody laughs at this story, fully expecting the airline to go bancrupt in no time at all.
posted
Well said, Nancy! I too enjoyed your link, and will consider this in future changes.
I think the bottom line is that each of us have different markets that have different limits as to what they will bear. Also, each of us have different strengths in the logo design department.
All of us have seen poor logo design, and may even have been guilty of a bad logo or two from our studios. Many a time I have seen a logo and said "Oh God, I hope they didn't pay for that P*** poor logo" While I may envy someone who gets 500 bucks for a logo design, I absolutely love my job and my clients.
To many, we have become friends. Some even feel free to stop after hours for a cold pop. So, while I don't get the big buck for this valuable service, I have fun, and have created some striking and awesome logos in the process.
[ July 09, 2003, 08:13 PM: Message edited by: Rick Beisiegel ]
""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3489 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
Against all common sense and logic, this is a true story, Stephen. I couldn't find any english link that mentioned the number, but if you want to flip through the german version, you can find the sum mentioned at the end of the first paragraph. It was also in every other paper in the country. http://www.onlinereports.ch/SwissBrand.htm The only guess I have is that they are talking about the intire branding process, including costs for production of signs, lettering , etc.
I didn't mean to get off topic, it just struck me as a crazy story on the subject, because someone is getting paid so much for so little.
Just got a voice mail for a job and the person said "specifically" that they want a logo but they DID not want a LOGO PACKAGE.
They 'SAID' that they already know what they want it to look like and it is not complex.
They simply want a QUIKKIE LOGO.!? Would the same logic apply? They know what they want and if I stick to my guns and tell them $250 and up, I feel that I will lose them but, if I don't charge them for a professional package then am I lowballin'? What can I do?
I have charged anywhere from $225-$1600 depending on the complexity of the design and a lot has to do with the size of the business sometimes. If it's a very small mom & pop business that's just starting or struggling I cut them some slack just to help them out. But the corporate big boys who could care less about mom & pop and can afford it, well they pay a premium.
I've done a logo for a small salon who after talking to the client who was a single mom trying to make it work on her own, I helped her out by charging $150 for something that I would have charged a large established salon with a couple of shops $350. I also charged a friend of the family $900 for a logo for his sports bar (it was pretty complex but cool). He first said $900!! Isn't that a little high? I told him, "well I think the same thing when I go to your bar and pay $5.00 for a Crown Royal on the rocks." He saw my point and agreed because his partners loved it. If he would have given me discount drinks, I probably would have done that logo for $200.
I don't know if the way I operate is the "ethical" thing to do since I charge according to how much I think they can afford but on the other hand, I get satisfaction from helping out the "little guy". 'Cuz after all, that's what I am.
OK, one last thing, I was asked by a guy that I grew up with who is now a bazillionaire to design a logo for one of his companies. I told him $500 for the logo design. He said, "well, that's a little high". I then said, "well, the best I can do is $400" He then said,"that sounds better". After that, I figured how he did business so the next time I did a couple of logos I wanted $1600 for the two. I told him it would be $1850.00. He again said, "well, that's kinda high" I told him, "OK, since it's you, I can knock it down to $1600.00". We were both happy. But then I would have given him great prices if it wasn't for the initial encounter. He didn't want to pay what I thought I was worth so the next time I had to play his game.
By the way Lotti, how much is 50 Mio? Sorry to sound like a dork but what is "Mio"
-------------------- John Cordova Gitano Design Studio Albuquerque, NM Posts: 268 | From: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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1 Sure I will deal with you! 2 AAAAAHHHH! Thanks!..... You have my business! 3 Listen.......Can you change that for Me? 4 Wait now! That really cost money to re-arrange?! 5 I have been here 4 times! And what do you mean it's going to Up the Price? 6 Remember it was a sketch that my Daughter/Son/Family, did first!!!!!!!!!
Now if I only could read German/or the language of the Post I would Respond to it
[ July 21, 2003, 05:04 PM: Message edited by: Stephen Deveau ]
-------------------- Stephen Deveau RavenGraphics Insinx Digital Displays
Letting Your Imagination Run Wild! Posts: 4327 | From: Lower Sackville, Nova Scotia, Canada | Registered: Jan 2000
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If they know what they want and it's not complex, why are they asking you to create it for them? Why can't they create it for themselves? The truth is they need your expertise and they're most likely going to make a bazillion changes to it, besides that who's to say what they want is going to be an effective logo?
Complexity shouldn't even play into the cost of a logo. Think about it... Mc Donald's, Coke, Pepsi, Taco Bell, Dairy Queen, Burger King, Tide, UPS, FedEX, US Mail, etc. etc... these are all very simple logos and THAT is what makes them recognizeable (thus making them valuable) but if the designers considered complexity into the cost they would have barely charged anything.
You don't have to sell them a package, you can do just the logo but make it clear you retain all reproduction rights to the artwork you create. The only way around that is if they bring you a logo that's already designed and only want you to vectorize it, but then you still own the vector artwork and are under no obligation to supply other service bureaus with it - that's what the logo package is for.
There's three ways to do it:
1. The cheap package: You design their logo and retain all reproduction rights, thus making it a pretty useless logo for them if no one else can reproduce it *legally*. They'll naturally run off with the artwork and have each of their service bureaus (printers, t-shirt guys, mug printer, etc etc) set it up again and again, and eat themselves alive with the setup costs these other companies will charge them. Let them know they'll easily pay $300 in setup fees for all these different companies to setup their artwork each time they need it, which gives you a segway into #2 below.
2. The medium road: You design their logo and still retain reproduction rights, but now you grant *certain* service bureaus one-time use/licensing of that logo for their respective services, and all artwork requests go through you, not the customer. You can setup alliances with certain companies who you will trust to reproduce your artwork as you had intended, and build business relationships with these same companies possibly earning you discounts on their services in return for the referral work you send them. You scratch their back, they scratch yours.
3. The high road: They already said they don't want this option but you would design their logo, hand them a package including camera ready art and vector files on CD in every format imagineable, and release all reproduction rights to the customer. This would of course be way beyond the $250 mark, probably closer to (or more than) $1,000.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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Thanks for bringing something to light for me...The stuff about complexity not being a factor. For the life of me, I don't know why I've never looked at it the way you put it. I've been doing this long enough I shoulda thought about that. I guess I just feel kinda guilty charging $300 for something that ONLY I KNOW took 10 minutes to design. Still learning I guess.
Thanks again!
-------------------- John Cordova Gitano Design Studio Albuquerque, NM Posts: 268 | From: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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