posted
I had the pleasure recently to letter my first race car. It was a car in the modified class. I had to follow a few ideas from their old car, but added a few things of my own.
I was wondering for those of you who work on race cars, what kind of prices do you get for these jobs?
This one was just lettering both sides. The top and nose were already done. I had to cut and apply the letters, stripes, sponsors, etc. Nothing fancy, but a few airbrushed fades in there, too.
I'm gonna post a pic when I get it to see what others think but I was wondering what the going rates were for race cars. I'm sure the market is pretty competitive for these, but I think I gave them quite a bargain with what I charged.
I realize this is a pretty general question, so I will post a pic whenever I get it back to hopefully get a few ideas for anything in the future.
Thanks. Randy
-------------------- Randy Graphic Details Promotional Merchandise Distributor South Glens Falls, NY Posts: 381 | From: South Glens Falls, NY USA | Registered: Mar 2001
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ive seen these done for from FREE to $1500....so i guess anywhere in ther is fine. my self(i live a mile from 5 FLAGS SPEEDWAY)i hand letter 3 numbers, in 3 colors combo, and will add 2 sponsors(free hand,no patterns) for $125.00....and i dont get any takers....most sign shops here are into GIVEN THESE GUYS THE LETTERING. those that dont get it FREE ....have a plotter!!!!!
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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I'm about 2 miles from a dirt track. If I have learn anything it is that it is better for me to make the stuff and let them put it on. I can get more profit wise doing it that way. It doesn't tie up as much of my time. I quit doing it for FREE as many expect. I do more of racing go-carts than cars. I get about $75-$100 for a cart. They usually get 3 #s, their name on both sides, and maybe a sponsor or two. I put the stuff on the carts and put my logo on also. They don't take long to do and they bring them here and leave them till I'm done. Cars I had a hard time getting $300 to do one from front to back, top to bottom.
quote:Originally posted by Randy W. Robarge: I think I gave them quite a bargain with what I charged.
OUCH!!! These cheap skates will tell everyone they know who did their lettering and how "low priced" he was. Contrary to what someone may tell you (i.e. the guy trying to get you to do his car free/cheap and he'll 'let' you put your name on it) putting your name on a race car is NOT good advertising, it's asking for punishment. I'm sure some people get good money for doing race cars, but those people are very very few. I've done my fair share of cars and I made the mistake of trying to sell them my first year. Now I don't try to get new racer customers. I do existing customers and referrals only. Last one I did was a referral: 3 numbers (2 colors) 3 sponsors (1 color). Spent about 1/2 hour layout & clean up fonts, cut the vinyl, weeded, assembled the 2 color, masked and handed them to the customer with a bill for $200. I do have 1 car I do for a lot less than I should but he is one of my husband's best friends, has done favors for me and is sworn to secrecy about what I charge him. Just be careful, don't give these guys a break. After all, it's THEIR hobby, why should the money for it come out of your pocket?
-------------------- Chris Welker Wildfire Signs Indiana, Pa Posts: 4254 | From: Indiana, PA | Registered: Mar 2001
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It just seems like I spent a lot of time working on it for that little amount. Just didn't seem worth it to me.
From the responses, it seems it isn't worth it in the long run.
Thanks for the feedback. Like I said, I am going to post the pic when I get it. I didn't have time to snap a pic when I got it done, so the owner is going to give me a copy of one of their pics.
Thanks again.
-------------------- Randy Graphic Details Promotional Merchandise Distributor South Glens Falls, NY Posts: 381 | From: South Glens Falls, NY USA | Registered: Mar 2001
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Forgive me, but I will never do another rece car unless it is for actual money. I have been sweet talked for the last time. Everybody wants you to sponsor their car, with promises of "more work than you can handle".....RIGHT!
[ May 24, 2003, 03:57 PM: Message edited by: Rick Beisiegel ]
""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3490 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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I Worked at a race track. I know them well.
These guys are willing to spend big bux on thier engines but nutin' on a car outside. The cars get bent, rubbed, banged pushed, rolled over and broke. The car owners do not wish to spend $300 bux doin up a car that is very likely to get ruined the first ten minutes.
The pro divisions are a little better because thier cars are more expensive and they drive better. Still they want it free.
I give 'em a pattern for $10 bux and tell them how to paint it themselves.. That way i get the drivers and sponsers who are bizz owners to come to me for some real work.
-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5274 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
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I have done over 300 cars and am done with them these days. If I had to do it over, it would be like this...
First and foremost, there wil most likely be some schmuk who will spit out "We wanna try to win the car show!" Keep in mind that they have you in the shop already...you got the gig. Whatever happens after you deck it out isn't going to make you famous or richer.
Numbers and 4 sponsors for $300, any cartoons other than the hood for $25 each, hoods are another $200 for a complicated cartoon, more for any airbrushing. Keep the airbrushing simple. You may have to retouch it later.
If you can, avoid traveling out to the race shops. Most are underheated and lousy work environments, everyone clamours around watching you and getting in your way. Charge at least $50 for having to pack and unpack your stuff. Time is money.
Don't sponsor more than one car a year and sign all the cars you do. It's your artwork and you, as the artist, should feel obliged to sign your work. If someone gripes about your name being on it without it being a full sponsorship, double the bill!
Warning...most will tell you they will get you more work, but if you do race cars cheap, all you will get is more race cars. Your equipment doesn't know the difference between a race car, truck, or sign. It's all work.
Don't expect anything past the initial lettering job. I have over 90 dirt cars I've done in 12 years, and have only touched up one.
Race cars are a blast to play with and I think you should do at least 1 a year in this business. but it will never be a career move.
-------------------- Ray Rheaume Rapidfire Design 543 Brushwood Road North Haverhill, NH 03774 rapidfiredesign@hotmail.com 603-787-6803
I like my paint shaken, not stirred. Posts: 5648 | From: North Haverhill, New Hampshire | Registered: Apr 2003
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I used to specialize in race cars, I've done somewhere around 1500 of them. These days I'll knock out a hand lettered street stock for $450 and up. The involved vinyl jobs forget it. We do our own car and a couple for good friends and for good frinds I mean the kind that will put a cage in your car at no charge or something along those lines. I did one of our friends cars this week, somebody came up to me last night at the track and wanted to know what I would charge to do something similar on his car, I told him $1000-$1250, I'm not holding my breath waiting for a call
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
posted
I have done several drag cars in the past 4 years. I have airbrushed flames to straight white vinyl cutting. They do not want to spend money to make their car look better but they will spend $2000 to go 1/10 of a second faster. I use oracal 651 vinyl with a cost of less than $1.00 a yard. Most race cars are either scatched or banged up in one night. Drag cars last longer bur most are kept in trailers except on the day of the race. More expensive vinyl is a waste of money. Ofter the more expensive if they want it but charge for it. Using white 651 I can do 2 ads (one for each side of the car) 6X12 inches for 50 cents not counting the time or transfer tape. I charge $15.00 and they are happy and I am too. Think about using less expensive material and you can still make some money and make the customer happy also. If none of you guys want to do this type of business I will do it for you and you can charge what you want. I am disabled and I do my weeding in the bed while I rest my back. I ship all over the USA so just contact me I like the little jobs.
-------------------- Cynthia Pack 246 Diamondview Loop Galax, Va. 24333 Posts: 659 | From: Galax, Virginia USA | Registered: Mar 2001
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I just don't get all this complaining about Racers. Yes, they want a bargain. Yes, they are usually in over their heads by the time they get to you.
So?
Who is in charge of your shop? Who prices your talent and work? If you can't or won't say no or price your work to make money then is the racer to blame for being a better salesman than you?
I'm as guilty as anyone of underpricing jobs but it was me, all me. I am responsible for everything that happens at my business. I set the price. I set the schedule. I set the discount. I do the work, prime the panels... Me.
I'm not in the habit of preaching but this has been my hardest lesson in business. I am the first, the last & the only word in what I charge for my skills and toils. If I fail I've no one to blame but me. The health of my business and my ability to provide for my family depend on my knowledge of my cost, my labor, overhead & profit.
Respectfully, Wayne Berry
-------------------- Berry Signs & Stripes Hattiesburg, MS Signs, lines, lettering & other neat stuff. Posts: 82 | From: Hattiesburg, MS | Registered: Jan 2000
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Race cars, is that what their called? The round-d-rounds where most persons want crap to begin with, why does anyone bother calling them race cars. I just striped a race boat last week for $500 and do the same for real race cars owned by real people who want real good work on their drag cars in real paint with real lettering I rarely do the lettering myself but always do the pricing and never once have lost a job due to high prices which I'm accustomed to. If you know that dirt cars want cheap work, why do it, why waste your time? Why play those games? Why change your pricing to accomodate these idiots who spend X amount of cash for the best of everything else. Have any idea what a Rodac engine cost?
I know what good work costs, so thats what I charge.
Have a nice day
-------------------- HotLines Joey Madden - pinstriping since 1952 'Perfection, its what I look for and what I live for'
DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter Posts: 6454 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
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I'm never going to comlpain about race cars. I started out doing them and have always had fun with the majority of the folks involved. I was green to being a letterer and had no idea when I started out how much my work was worth. Fortunately, many of the local businesses who supported racing found out about my work and contacted me for signs, banners, window splashes, etc. Looking back, I only wish I had done the pricing differently and made less trips out to race shops. These days I am only doing them in my shop and have raised the prices a bit. I can control the environment and am getting more involved in other kinds of work. I agree that pricing should be balanced to any other work you do (see above), but I got "discovered" on circle track cars and these days look back on it as one heck of learning experience.
Rapid
-------------------- Ray Rheaume Rapidfire Design 543 Brushwood Road North Haverhill, NH 03774 rapidfiredesign@hotmail.com 603-787-6803
I like my paint shaken, not stirred. Posts: 5648 | From: North Haverhill, New Hampshire | Registered: Apr 2003
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I notice most everytime the words race car are mentioned on this board it is referring to circle track cars. As most have mentioned, they tend to be a losing proposition.
Drag cars are different. They don't tend to get crashed, people like them to look nice, and tend to spend more money on their looks. I've made a career out of drag race cars.
I don't worry about the cost of materials. I use the best stuff I can buy and pass it on. If anyone wants to compete over price they can slug it out with the rest of the vinyl people in that bloodbath.
Quality work, whether vinyl or paint (I choose paint) will attract people who want to spend money. I love doing drag cars. Most people don't even ask me what it will cost in advance.
I'm surprised more people don't do them.
Bruce
-------------------- Bruce Deveau 331 Main St. Amesbury, Ma USA 01913 Posts: 139 | From: Amesbury, MA USA | Registered: Jul 2000
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I echo your comments. I started out many years ago doing drag race cars and have found those folks to be the same as you have. They will spend much more money to make/keep their cars looking good, and seem to take a lot more pride in their appearance.
The roundy-round boys area different story though. I wouldn't get out of the electric chair to letter one of those!
I also think it might depend on what part of the country you live in.
posted
Yup...Same here. I only do drag cars....swore off those circle trackers. Geez, they're willing to let me put my name on their car if they get a price break, how nice of them! Hahahaha NOT. Anyway, the drag car people don't mind the cost for their cars to look good, so that's where I'm at.
-------------------- Kristie Byrnes Paintbrush Graphics 6126 Big Cut Rd. Mt. Carroll, IL 61053 rugbyrnes@hotmail.com (563) 357-7614 Posts: 90 | From: Thomson,IL | Registered: Dec 2002
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Did my first car last year all vinyl $740. The car won $1000 for the best looking graphics contest. Did the guy's brother's car for about $385 with a lot less stuff on it. My company logo was on both cars(large). "Open modified" cars? I think.
They both brought their cars back to me this year. Did the first car a little more jazzed up this time for $859. The car won the $1000 prize AGAIN. Did his brothers car this year for about $750 but he blew his engine so the car was in the shop during the contest.
I occasionally do a drag racer or stock car. Cutting some 18'' high door numbers for one today for $67 and they're installing them.
We don't fool with the "sponsor me with free stickers and I'll let you put your name on it" crowd. My logo was on both these cars and very large too: "Racing Graphics by Webb Sign Studio" I have yet to get any business from it.
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7404 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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Good point there...where you are is really a factor. Up here in the New England, there is only 1 drag strip of note. Racing is not as well supported here as in the southeast or west coast, and sponsorship is thin. Most of the racing is 1/4 to 1/2 mile asphalt circle tracks, a few dirt.
Wayne W., I've blasted out a few car show winners in my day (111), but only one track I have ever sent cars to gave a cash prize for best appearing, and it was only $200. (Won it two years in a row and got a $20 dollar tip...sheesh)
Race cars are rolling billboards. Too bad the drivers don't start there, instead of worrying about winning EVERY race. The few who do actually make a few bucks and advance into bigger and better racing series'. They get paid to do what they love...not unlike a few sign people I have met...lol.
Rapid
-------------------- Ray Rheaume Rapidfire Design 543 Brushwood Road North Haverhill, NH 03774 rapidfiredesign@hotmail.com 603-787-6803
I like my paint shaken, not stirred. Posts: 5648 | From: North Haverhill, New Hampshire | Registered: Apr 2003
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