posted
You said "take home". Well to take home $100,000 a year you couldn't possibly fabricate by yourself and sell signs by yourself. If you become a broker and then it would be possible. Then we are still talking market development, accounting and the rest of running a business. You cannot sum up the amount of work that is required by a business to clear $100,000 in a year. Especially in our type of business. I don't know who writes these books but business is about relationship building. You find clients and they like you and you like them and it goes from there. That takes time and effort. Lots of both.
Kevin Landry KnL Signs
-------------------- Kevin Landry KnL Signs Halifax NS
posted
Yes, it is possible. Become an efficency expert. Lay out your shop and your schedule to make the most of the 10 hour day that you can. Work at home, no commute, lower overhead. (just a 15 min. commute turns into 5 hrs. a week or 260 hrs. yr., at $60 hr thats $15,000 in lost productivity.) There are 2 parts to the equation. The time it takes you to get the job and the time it takes you to do the job. Work on minimizing both. Invest in high quality, fast equipment. The longer you are in business the more regular customers you will have-less selling time, more productive time. I'll bill out $200,000 as a one man, home based shop this year.
-------------------- Carper's Signs 594 Union School Rd. Mount Joy, PA 17552 carpersign@earthlink.net Posts: 157 | From: Lancaster, PA, USA | Registered: Aug 1999
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posted
I would say "possible", but probably not on a regular basis, considering economies, weather putoffs, etc. I would say that it would take the fun out of it, if you find any in it. It would be with your nose to the grindstone instead of your chisels. It would be much easier to accomplish in the higher economy areas like the Northeast, California, and coastal areas, but shop rates here in the midwest are about half of those areas. On the other hand, people in those areas would die to own property for what we do. Our average wage base for non executive is around 8.00 per hour. Though their will be many exceptions, this is about what the average sign laborer will receive here. A little higher in the high metro areas. Bronzeo
-------------------- "Don't change horses in midstream, unless you spot one with longer legs" bronzeo oti Jack Davis 1410 Main St Joplin, MO 64801 www.imagemakerart.com jack@imagemakerart.com Posts: 1549 | From: Joplin, MO | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
Why would anyone want to? It means choosing to di it faster and cheaper and in greater volume,or narrowing things down to two customers that keep you blazing and wanting to hire help. This is a silly question
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6736 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Chip Carter wrote that book and yes, he does take home that much money. If you look at this month's Sign Business magazine (Portfolio winners) you will see some of his work. And he lives in Florida, an area that has the reputation of having the cheapest signs around.
He has some great ideas for organizing your business. There are several single man sign shops that are making that kind of money, and some with just one or two employees - I'm not one of them, by the way. And they are doing quality work.
Just because I am not doing it does not mean that it can't be done. Too many have proven that it is possible.
-------------------- Chapman Sign Studio Temple, Texas chapmanstudio@sbcglobal.net
Posts: 6306 | From: Temple, Texas, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
if one's profit margin is 40%. that means that this one person shop has to gross $250,000 per year in order to "bring home" $100,000! (this translates into a few cents over $5,208 per week.)
if any one person shop is grossing $250,000 per year i sure would like to hear from them.
posted
Well I think it IS possible. Not saying I have ever come even close...but I do know that by subbing out certain work you can make a huge profit by doing absolutely nothing. I think with all the competition these days (depending on your location) it is getting harder and harder to make a great living doing just vinyl signs especially with a one woman show.
Posts: 3729 | From: Seattle | Registered: Sep 1999
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posted
To bill out $250000 a year the breakdown is @ $50/hour 14.88 hours a day 5 Days a week 416.66 hours on a 28 day month 5000 hours a year on a 50 week year By billing $244/a day for percentage markup ready bought items you can bring in $61000. A fully billed 10 hour day will get you the rest. Or any other combination that groses $744/day. Averages will work also.
Ron can you tell me what your work mix is? How much sales of products such as bought letters sold at a profit? What's type of work is your most profitable?
posted
Hey Ray, I tried to call Chip and got his answering machine with a message that said, "Sorry, I can't come to the phone right now, leave your name and number and a brief message and i will return your call between the hours of 3 am and 4 am january 1st, 2002."
posted
maybe whoever has the book could post some of Chip's salient tips (it might motivate me to buy the book).
i made more money this month brokering work than i made producing work. i'm a better salesman than signmaker. (well, i'm working on improving the latter, and i thank the goddess for the former). yes, a one man shop can net well over $100K in signage- but probably NOT by making the signs. (not, that is, unless you've got special talents and special clients)
my experience with the letterheads over the last six years is that most of us prefer to be craftspeople, and the money is secondary. in my own business, i sub-out what i can in order to pay myself to play with paint.
-------------------- :: Scooter Marriner :: :: Coyote Signs :: :: Oakland, CA :: :: still a beginner :: ::
Posts: 1356 | From: Oakland (and San Francisco) | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
1st off...you belive all the people makin all that money stealing realestate...from old, destutute people....then you would believe this...also has any of you ever seen the area that chip carter cornered?(cheryl has a sign shop in ft myers and can attest to what i say here) its not about how much work a 1 man shop can do but in the area you live and the work you do. chip carter is from ft myers fl. his ONE big markets is SANIBELL ISLAND, he sits on the board of sign committy for that place, there are no corplast, a-frames, magnetics, or "CHEAP" sign on that island. all the businesses conform to a strict sign code(and chip is the main producer of these sign)all business signs are double faced sandblasted mahogany$$$$$$$$$$$$ each sign cost more then most of us make in a week. so thers your 1st thing you need to do...FIND A PLACE THAT YOU CAN PRODUCE ONLY HIGH DOLLAR SIGNS....AND YOU TO CAN MAKE $100,000 A YEAR!!!
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I bought his book. It is worth every penny. And yes, it can be done. If it weren't for the SBA/Flood loans that we are trying to pay off right now, I'd be right up there with Chip.
Here's a thought.....
The average business has its doors open 240 a year. Can you do $1000 per day? Sure you can. Can you do it with what you are doing now? Maybe. Maybe not. Its up to you to look at your market's needs and find out what sells (and at the best profit).
posted
I've known Chip for many years and spent time with him at his home. In my opinion, everything he says is true. It's really just a matter of attitude. If you believe you can or can't, you are right.
At this Summer's Milwaukee Meet, everyone gathered together to form a "Circle Of Knowledge." This was an opportunity to ask everyone else in the group questions. It's a great idea that I would love to see become part of every meet.
When Gary Anderson's turn came, he asked what everyone thought a small shop owner should clear after expenses. I've heard this discussed before and quickly looked for a safe spot to take shelter when the poop hit the fan.
Over the years, we have had the opportunity to meet many of you in person. We also owned and operated our own sign business for almost 25 years. The biggest single challenge we hear about is making money in this business.
I have a simple theory for success. Find the person who is doing, or has what you desire and find out what they are doing different from you. Let me be the first to admit that I am not the one to tell you how to make money making signs. That is a skill I have never mastered. Like many of you, I have some self esteem issues I still struggle with, along with a ridiculous notion that making money is somehow wrong. I'm working on that.
If you are open to a change in the way you think. If you are sick and tired of being sick and tired of being broke, I urge you to invest in Chip Carter. Find some motivational books and audio tapes! Do whatever it takes to break out of this cycle of working for peanuts. You deserve it! Come to think of it...I do to.
posted
To start with, I am the person who wrote the book being discussed.
I made over $100,000.00 net (take home, into my personal bank account) for the first time in 1998. I did it, first, to prove that I could do it, (I knew others that were already doing it), and also to have a nice round number when writing the book, (having the money isn’t all that bad either). Some clarification may help. I had one part time non-sign maker helper. I worked about 40 hours per week. I also did not do all the work myself.
I wrote the book to help others in the business be more successful and at the same time to try and dispel some of the myths about art and money. Part of the book deals with how much money do you really need. Another part deals with what to do with it once you get it. I did not write the book to get rich quick. While I have sold hundreds of copies, I am still baffled as to why more people have chosen not to purchase the book. It has a 3-month no questions asked money back guarantee. Alas, but it takes effort. I have found that in most cases the line between success and mediocrity is just a matter of effort. Put in the effort and you can achieve almost anything you want.
In my research since writing the book I discovered that there were two main groups of people that are buying the book. The first group is sincerely looking for a way to improve their business, and from the feedback they overwhelmingly have. The other group is people whose businesses are already doing well but want to continue their reading on the subject to improve even more.
There was a reason for putting "it is possible" in the information about the book. There is no magic wand or free lunch. It takes you doing business based on sound business principles, having your business organized where things flow smoothly and watching your numbers like a hawk. If any of these are missing it is going to make your goal much harder.
My priorities in life are these: Life, business, art. If your life is out of whack, your business will be too. The same goes the other way around. In both cases the joy you get from your art will suffer. Don’t let it.
posted
Thanks Chip, I have read excepts from the book. I'll remind others that excerpt are availabe on Chips website. I do believe in his message. I don't think the dollar amount is the main topic.
posted
I don't believe in being a starving artist. I do believe it is possible to do just about anything one believes in.
You must really believe and not just wish. This also means that you have to work hard at it.
Success is 10% dream and 90% action. The 10% is easy-- the 90% the kicker. If it were easy everyone would be able to achieve it.
It doesn't mean you can't have fun on the journey.
I got a chance to meet Chip a while back. I had no idea of what he acccomplished until this post. He stuck me as a great guy whith a great sense of humor. Sounds like he has his priorities in the right order.
-dan
-------------------- Dan Sawatzky Imagination Corporation Yarrow, British Columbia dan@imaginationcorporation.com http://www.imaginationcorporation.com
Being a grampa is one of the the most wonderful things in the world!!!
posted
A reply to Santo's question. About 95% of my sales are signs that I make. Hardly any Gemini letters, almost no electrics. I don't sub-contract except for installations. 25% of my volume goes to material cost, about 20% to overhead. I do alot of truck lettering, edge work, dimentional signs (sabre router) and basic everyday types of signs. To bill out a $1000 day is not that hard. I don't do on site bids, I never do drawings on speculation. My time is to valuable, if you want me, you come see me. That cuts down on my unproductive time and allows me to charge less for the jobs that paying customers have already ordered. This didn't happen overnight. It's been over 20 years building up a steady customer base. Last year I did over 850 jobs for 350 customers, my biggest account was less that 5% of my gross. There are 2 things that give me great satisfaction in this business: One is to take a Sir Speedy business card from a new customer and come up with a realy great layout for their new truck or sign and see their eyes light up as they see their new look unfold before their eyes. The second is to have a job running on the router, the edge, the vinyl cutter all at the same time. One soothes the soul, the other soothes the wallet. It is possible to do both.
-------------------- Carper's Signs 594 Union School Rd. Mount Joy, PA 17552 carpersign@earthlink.net Posts: 157 | From: Lancaster, PA, USA | Registered: Aug 1999
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posted
I bought Chips book after meeting him in Melbourne at Pat Neves Migration. GOOD sound advise and works too! My "Duck Soup Splatter Jam" is a testimonial of that. I TARGET market and Specialize, I don't live beyond my means, I take vacations(shop closed) Attend Letterhead Meets(shop closed)
Of course I ain't rolling in dough,BUT... I am living life better than I ever was.
-------------------- PKing is Pat King The Professor of SIGNOLOGY
Posts: 3113 | From: Pompano Beach, FL. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
It really is about attitude. Those who are successful in this trade are proactive, involved in their communities, offering a top-quality product at a high price, and most of all, believe in themselves, their abilities and their right to live a full life and make a profit on their abilities.
Then there are those who do nothing but bitch and whine about how tough it is, while resenting anyone who does what it takes to be successful.
Hey, everybody knows success is just luck. Ask any failure, they'll tell you.
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988"
Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Hi all, Some great responses here. As a one man sign shop I have found that making a good living is not really a problem. What I am struggling with right now is the family issue. What would my family do without me? Why should I work so hard to build up a business that will be worth nothing if i want to sell it someday, because a one man operation is'nt worth squat without the you, because you ARE the business. Right now I'm exploring expanding the business so it's not so dependant on just me. I'm probably asking for a lot more headaches than i have right now, but i just might sleep a little better.
-------------------- Jim Hansen Tri-Star Graphics Bethel, Ct. 800-716-6500 e-mail:tsgracingdecals@aol.com www.tsgracingdecals.com Posts: 51 | From: Bethel, Ct. usa | Registered: Jan 2001
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posted
Chip...I own the book,but I can tell you why its not selling like you expect.....#1,its $67 price tag,#2 its not as much a book as it is a downloadable document,if you want it in concrete book form,you have to print it out then bring it to be spiral bound at kinkos or somewhere else so figure between paper and binding about another $12...you're now up near the $80 range for something thats not a workshop or a class. And when you can walk into Barnes and Noble and buy 100's of marketing,finance and buisness manuals for generally $22 or less,it's gonna be hard to convince someone to spend $40 or more for something they can't hold in their hand. I fully understand where you're coming from with the money back guarantee...but thats not always an enticement to purchase....think about it,when you bought your last home would have come up with the full amount up front just b/c there was a money back guarantee? prob not.... Now b4 everyone has a conniption and emails me,do a BB search on the book and you'll see that many people posted a similar response when it first came out,more people wanted to see it as a book and not a download....so this was just my .02
And,everyone else is right...attitude and desire is everything.
-------------------- Gavin Chachere Plotter in the garage,New Orleans La.
"Sgts Shugart and Gordon again request permission to rope down to crash site two"
Posts: 1223 | From: new orleans.la. | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
Thanks Chip, just downloaded my FREE trial!!
Only problem, I feel guilty spending potentially productive time on this BB.
Well I do learn plenty here as well as finding out about your book, so I guess this is productive time. At least I don't waste as much time on TV now that I've found letterville.
posted
Doug, You shouldn't feel that the bullboard is wasting time, there is so many great people to learn from here. I 'found' the bullboard just under a year ago, and my work has improved 100x. I look at my work from last year (I have been in business two years, in the sign/printing field for 4) and while it is solid, quality work, it wasn't getting the amount of referrals and responses I get now that I give serious effort in the design end.
Take the investment amount of the book and divide it by 365 days. (By the way it is 47.00 not 67.00). That’s .12 cents per day. Then do the same thing after figuring how many days you have left in the sign trade. For instance; ten years x 365 days = 3650 days. That’s less than .01 cent per day. This does not even take into account the extra money you can make by reading and applying the principles in the book. Do you really think price is the problem?
I’ll sweeten the deal. For anyone who orders the book between now and December 12, 2001 8:00 AM Eastern Standard Time, I will print out the book and ship it to their location at no additional charge just for the asking. Just e-mail me from the site saying so. You will still get the download version. The one thing I do ask in trade is that for anyone getting the book in printed form is that there is no money back guarantee.
With the New Year and some time off coming up, this can be a great time to invest in your future. Click the link to order. http://www.sign-consultants.com
Sincerely,
Chip Carter Author of: “Make Your Sign Business Successful”
-------------------- Chip & Marilyn Carter 414 S. St. Pierre St. Broussard, LA 70518
posted
in "THEORY" communisium is a wonderful form of govt., in practice....its a whole nother thing. then throw in "variables", like, area, economics, unemployment/employment, the intelectual level of the people who live their, what they expect in return for their investment. start a sign shop in the middle of "everglades" or start one in "south beach"....which will be successful....its a no brainer...
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Yes, location does have have some effect on the outcome, but only if you let it.
Today, I estimate that about 70% of my business is now from out of town. I don't do any advertising outside of Wilson. While the local shops are in a price war for 3x8 banners for $50, I'm working on other projects that are a heck of a lot more profitable.
I don't mean to be disrespectful (I used to feel the same way you do now), but blaming location or your competition for your situation is a cop-out. You are responsible for your success. No one else. The same goes for me, too.
Only YOU are responsible for your success or failure. It maddening how much gets blamed at everything else.
More effort should be spent on improving one's self instead of blaming everything else on failures.
Books like Chip's are valuable resources for those who want to expand their business. 47 bucks? And we're thinking thats a lot of money?
Try putting a price tag on ignorance. You may find $47 to be a real bargain.
It's self serving to say I applaud the efforts of Chip, and others seeking to educate others. But, profits from such endeavors do not diminish the value of the message.
posted
also i forgot to add....years in the location and your own reputation....is 75% of haveing a good business
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I figured it out - if I were to take home 100 Grand I would have to pay myself $167,000, because I'm single/self employed/no dependents and so I'm in the 40% bracket. Well, it might be above THAT, even, at 100k, I don't know? But the only catch is being self employed they want the tax IN ADVANCE of me getting it. I can't win.
Mike, I love the pawn shop deal.
3 guys go to a convention in a crowded small town and all the hotels are full. They come to the last place possible and the night manager says he has one small single left that he gets $10 for. The 3 guys all agree they are so tired and desperate that they'll take it and draw straws for the bed. The Mgr. charges them EACH $10 - and they pay up.
As the bell hop is taking them to the room the Mgr. has some second thoughts and decides $30 for the room is hitting them too hard. When the bell hop returns he says, "Here's $5. Go give those 3 guys a refund for me, my conscience is bothering me." O.K., but on the way the bell hop says to himself "Hey, I can't divide $5 equally between 3 guys. They aren't expecting anything back at all, I'll just keep $2 for my trouble and give them each a dollar back and everybody will be happy."
They paid $30. They got back 3. $9 each times 3 = $27.00 the bell hop has $2 27 and 2 = 29 ____________________________ Where's the other dollar?
posted
Old Paint, I agree that location is everything, more true if your just starting. Glenn, Your also right, you can make it without a great location, determination, sound business practices, good signmaking skills etc. but it's a lot harder. Not that harder is bad, it's just harder. I prefer easy but life is not always easy. Is it?
-------------------- Ronnie Conrad Augusta,Ga Posts: 374 | From: Augusta,Ga. | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
Chip's book strikes a deep chord in a lot of people, because the issues it deals with go a lot deeper than making money in the sign business.
What kind of life do you want? Are you in control of your destiny? Or do you abdicate that control to everyone and everything around you? You are what you believe. If you believe you are in control, you will be. If you believe you are a victim, you'll be a victim. It's not hard to tell the difference, either: we all reveal ourselves in our words and actions, whether we know it or not.
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988"
Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
We "buy" this site from Steve once a year for $50. If you are like me, you pick up tips that improve your business many times over the $50 investment. Sometimes a single tip recovers the annual investment.
So, if you believed that Chip's book would improve your business even $500 over the course of the year, why wouldn't you jump at it?
I have difficulty believing that if every one man shop followed Chip's advice to the letter, they would all break $100,000. But if even 10% broke the $100k barrier, and half improved their business by just 10%, it would still be a pretty fine book.
I would like to turn the question back to John Martin Robson - John, you have the book, how do you feel about your prospects for the big bucks?
Vic G
-------------------- Victor Georgiou Danville, CA , USA
Posts: 1746 | From: Danville, CA , USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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Its such a small amount to pay considering how much one has to gain. I’m speaking with respect to both the book and my recent residency here at Letterville ………. as Homer would say ………….YIHOO!
But to answer your question VICTORGEORGIOU.
“The big bucks”, yes I believe that the book (Lettleville too, for that matter) can guide me towards “The big bucks” …….but, what I really want is probably what we all want…………work at what we enjoy, make great money doing it, and leave enough time to share it all.
Thanks all, I mean that………..even you hard liners out there have shown me a better way.
quote:you can't keep it, unless you give it away
-------------------- John Martin Robson Pendragon Signs & Graphics Yellowknife,NT,Canada
if it's not one thing.....it's two things Posts: 261 | From: Yellowknife, NT, Canada | Registered: Aug 2000
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