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So, there are 3 sign co. here in a city with 20,000 population ( I'm the 3rd ). I have taken the 12' x 24' tacky White magnetics off my truck that I have had on for 2 1/2 years and replaced them with a nice 12'long full impact graphics down both sides and along the tailgate of my GMC Sierra. I am handing my card out to 'soon to be' every business in Airdrie (Air-Dree). I advertise a business card size ad in one of the 2 papers. I have a 2 1/2 year history as a side business (now f/t) with my company which I can expect referals more and more each day as well as company name recognition. I do good work around the same price as my competition. So how do I get the phone to ring??? I am feeling the need to be "relentless" but, I hate those pushy sales, sales, salespeople(plus I had a boss that would yell bloody murder at any solictor to "GET THE FUTT OUT!"). Right now, I walk in to an establishment and say, "Hi my name is Corey Wine. I own and operate SignCONCEPTS here in Airdrie and I am taking advantage of the weather & handing my card out today before I get hailed on.(or sumpin' clever like that)I can do graphics for your vehicle, truck or trailer. (as I point around the room)I can make and install your sign in the ground, up on the wall, on your windows or anywhere else you can think of. Have a nice weekend."- That's somewhat what I say. I have joined the Chamber of Commerce and the Breafast Club here and Murphys Law seems to be setting in. The phone rang from referals over the last 2 years and, since I have 'cut the cord' with my employer, beefed up my graphics and advertising and PR... I still look at the phone. Oh, I got business however, I need higher paying jobs. tinkery $100-$300 jobs. Whatma doin' wrong?? Does it just take more time?
Handing out my business card in a small city, I see businesses that I never knew existed. They don't advertise and their signs SUCK! Plus alot of 'em are selling crap that is hard to make a living off of - Craft Shops and aniques and such. How do they stay in business?
Ran into a Chamber bigwig while I was handing my card out. She said she needs a new sign guy because (my no.1 competition) her sign guy is way to busy. What's he doin right? He doesn't advertise but on his kingcab window..but he's been here for a while. No ads though.
How do I get that phone to ring???? I'm usually short with my topics......
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In our early days, Murray would do a great looking full colour sketch for a business that had a particularly bad sign - and take it in. "Hi, just stopped by to show you what I can do for you." Didn't sell them all, but it was a great way to start a conversation - that usually led to someone who was looking for a sign. We also had full colour postcards printed. The pic on the front was our great looking sign, and on the back I'd write something quite brilliant like, "Saw your highway sign, and you really need us." or "I'd love to show you how your sign can look as good as mine." - pop it in the mail, and follow up with a phone call. We also found people would trust him with a small ($100 to $300) job - to try out his work. When the sign was amazing, the service superb and deadlines met, bigger jobs followed. And after seven years, the phone rings!!! Deb
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Hi Corey, It sounds like your doing everything right. One thing that I do here in Bristol (pop. of around 2,500) is donate a sign or two every once in a while. I always make sure that there's a photo op and at least a sentence or two under the photo so potential clients can find me. I've got a few large towns and several cities less than an hour away, so it gets your name and a pic of your product out there. Another thing I do is donate a gift certificate ($200- 250) to various groups for there auctions and fund raising events. I'm sure that a lot of fellow Letterheads would disagree with the amount of freebies I donate. The only thing is, pick your projects well. Donated signs for non-profit types are great, but if you donate to large municipalities or organizations that have substantial funding, it looks like you're doing it for the publicity. That is what you're doing but it shouldn't look that way. It should always look like you're the generous business owner "giving back" to the community that supports your business. I hope this doesn't sound too contrived, but I am a businessman first and an artist second. Good luck.
Terry
-------------------- Terry Baird Baird Signs 3484 West Lake Rd. Canandaigua, NY 14424 Posts: 790 | From: Canandaigua, New York | Registered: Dec 2002
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I too am blessed with local competition. All my peers do nice work, but we all have our strengths and weeknesses. Your mission is to accentuate (emphasize) your strength. You do SOMTHING better than anyone else. Remember what it was that called you to self employment. No doubt it was someone elses weekness that you spotted. What ever it is that the competition does better, work on that area of your business without faltering.
We just moved to a retail spot a mile from our competitor. It's like starting over in some ways. But We have longevity, and lots of loyal repeat customers, with a strong design department. I know there is nothing we cannot do. If it is somthing you cannot do in house, hire it out from your store from someone far enough away so that they are not a threat. Check the BB and you will find someone who can do it. Good luck to you!
""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3503 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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Hi Cory, I wanted to expand on what Terry said a little - regarding the impressions people get. A few years ago I was in a despetate slump. Couldn't sell nutin, and I started lamenting this fact to my friends and business associates. Complaining didn't really help but it made me feel better, who knows, maybe someone would give me a pity job...
That's when I met Captain Andy, a local fishing guide here on Cape Cod. Andy's a cool young guy who is mobbed with high paying wealthy anglers from New York who pay big bucks to have a savvy guide show them where the fish are. And Andy does a good job, which of course is part of his success. When andy got wind of my troubles he took me aside and said "Joe, do yourself a favor - shut up". Then he outlined his BAD MAN concept. I'm too easy to read he said, and too honest, and nobody wants to be associated with a the guy who's not thriving, they want to hang with the swingers. As he kept talking it started to make a little sense.
He challenged me to make every appearance of being swamped with work, including changing my 'rap', telling folks I was much too busy to get to them at the moment, and turning away the next job that came in. Crazy. Absolutely nuts. "Trust me" he said, "I turn away every third call I get, even if there's nothing on the calendar. I tell them I'm booked solid but to give me their number, I'll call back if something opens up. They wait, and they don't squawk when I tell them the price either - and if we're out there on the flats and they don't do what I tell them, I yell at them and won't let them come fishing again." Whoa, Captain Andy IS bad.
The truth is I like Andy, and I believe that his tactics work for him, so I decided to trust him. Changing my rap wasn't too hard, if people asked I'd say we were good and busy now, and even if they didn't ask I'd slip it into the conversation. But I cannot tell you how hard it was to take a valid job inquiry and tell them I couldn't get to it for two weeks. Thank God they weren't in a hurry. Shortly after, the slump broke. Two weeks later I called the inquiry back and told them I had a gap. They were thrilled. So I took BAD MAN step two and added a 20% rush fee on top of the normal price. Thanks Andy.
SONGPAINTER Original Sign Music by Sign People NOW AVAILABLE on CD and the proceeds go to Letterville's favorite charity! Click Here for Sound Clips! Posts: 1974 | From: Orleans, MA, Cape Cod, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Now days I never let on if I'm not as busy as I'd like to be. The less work we have, the more I brag about the load. How this might apply to you Cory, is, as you drop off these fliers and cards and introduce yourself, you could (if you're brave) tell folks you're contacting them today to sign up late summer - fall jobs when you'll have some time available. People are much more willing to commit to something later, and having jobs signed up for two months from now is still good sales. Two months will be here before you know it. I think there's a more than fair chance that somebody's going to say, "Can't you do something sooner", which would play into your hand beautifully. Anyway, chin up, you're doing fine.
SONGPAINTER Original Sign Music by Sign People NOW AVAILABLE on CD and the proceeds go to Letterville's favorite charity! Click Here for Sound Clips! Posts: 1974 | From: Orleans, MA, Cape Cod, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Some years ago, I was in a sort of similar situation. Gaining the confidence of the business houses is one thing. Marketing yourself is another. I'd reccommend the book 'Guerilla Marketing' by someone, Conrad, or Levinson, I can't remember. I lent it out and forgot to whom, and it hasn't come back- everyone I thought may have it says they haven't. It's a very good book, and gets you to analyse audience, attention span, wording and layout of dozens of different media from classified ads, to business cards, to flyers, bill boards and radio or TV adverts. All require different thought processes and layouts. After reading the book, I altered my yellow pages phone book ad, and the calls started coming in. It still works well for us. There's a lot more to say, but some has been covered above. You could also try printing your business name on the back of your Sweater or whatever you call a long-sleeved garment, which you can wear wherever you go. That way, people can become familiar with your name without having to look you in the face first. It can become a good conversation starter. They also know who you are without having to interrupt you on a job if they're watching as they walk past. This gains their confidence. Good luck.
-------------------- "Stewey" on chat
"...there are no limits when you aim for perfection..." Jonathan Livingston Seagull Posts: 7016 | From: Highgrove via Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia | Registered: Dec 2002
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Corey, I forgot to ad: if you're advertising, pay particular attention to the title. Sometimes something obscure, or with a double meaning and a bit of humour will help people relate with you. It's a bit like this BB. If you'd called this thread " I'm having a bad time, new business, can't get any work" you might be glossed over by some readers, where "School of hard knocks" has an element of mystery, and almost invites people to look further out of curiosity, rather than pass by, short of time, and give you some of their attention. People WILL judge a book by its cover, even though they shouldn't, so you neeed a good cover. The post earlier is right, you need to seem busy & prosperous to become that way. A lot aren't game to take on a 'newcomer' who will admit that he is one, even though honesty pays.
-------------------- "Stewey" on chat
"...there are no limits when you aim for perfection..." Jonathan Livingston Seagull Posts: 7016 | From: Highgrove via Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia | Registered: Dec 2002
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Corey, There is some good info here to try. I am in a similar situation. Find a local screen printer and have them print you some $5 t-shirts. You wear them out doing installations, running errands, etc. Your back is a billboard. Give them out to people. I have my employees wear them everyday. I wear them or an embroidered golf shirt, depending on what I have going on that day. There are people hear that don't know my name, but they know me as "The Sign Man." That is just what you want. I came up with a new idea the other day. Me and my employees will wear shirts from local business to advertise for them on Fridays. Kind of like the "Casual Friday" idea. I get the companies to give me a golf shirt and my employees T-shirts. I already have 3 companies committed to it and I have only contacted 3. Our chamber is putting a note in their next newsletter. I get contacts, and we get free shirts also.
There's some good advice above , including some somewhat unorthodox sounding tactics...but you can't argue with success.
I think you're doing an awful lot right. Success in sales requires preparedness, persistance and patience...so stick with what you're doing for a while before you start trying too hard to re-invent yourself all at once.
If I was to make one suggestion it is this...
It's OK to introduce yourself and to talk about the services you have to offer...but what is the value of those service to these prospective clients? Do they have a need? Probably...but they probably don't recognize it.
In a sense, your job is to help small business owners promote their business, their brand(s), and their products and services -- through signage, point of sale advertising, fleet advertising and the like.
To be very successful at this, you should make an effort to try to learn what their goals and objectives are. It isn't often easy to get people to open up and discuss this sort of thing with you (some don't even know what their goals are and might be embarrassed to admit it). Over time, as you build a relationship and earn their trust...things will change.
At the risk of stating the obvious: one introductory call won't cut it. Open a file on every prospective client and develop a sales plan...a series of calls -- all with a specific objective. Take notes every time you speak with a customer and keep them on file for future reference.
Try picking one marketable product or service to focus on for a few months..."small fleet" fleet advertising, for example...and become an expert. Learn everything that you can about how a business can benefit from implementing a fleet advertising campaign (even if they only have a fleet of one). Send out some kind of informative mailer about the cost effectiveness of fleet advertising compared to the way that most companies spend their money (on yellow pages, for example).
Have a good sales presentation ready to go, and follow that mailer with a phone call to your target accounts to set appointments. Go out and "knock 'em dead" with your expert knowledge and professionalism. Before you do, practice asking for the order in ways that are clear, but comfortable for you. Have a clear process in place so that you can discuss "what happens next" after the customer says "that sounds like a great idea!".
On the other hand, always be prepared to hear "no" on the first attempt. Well ahead of time, try to anticipate the reasons your customer might have for not agreeing to purchase, acknowledge their concerns, and have a counter-point at the ready. When you've dealt with all of their objections, try asking for the order again. Always have a follow-up plan in place to execute after you leave.
Above all, always believe in yourself! You have something of great value to offer your clients.
Hope that helps.
Good luck!
-------------------- Jon Aston MARKETING PARTNERS "Strategy, Marketing and Business Development" Tel 705-719-9209 Posts: 1724 | From: Barrie, ON, CANADA | Registered: Sep 2000
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Corey sounds like you are doing alot of good things just keep meeting people and remember names and faces keep good records of past customers and remember when they need repeat business. Sometimes the customer is too busy and they put things off, but if you are their where they can see you and talk that should help. Now you say you are in a city with only 2 other sign shops well it maybe true but have you forgot you have 500 more sign shops just 15 minutes down the road that is your competition. You need ways to make your customer not need to make the drive to Calgary.
-------------------- Steve Eisenreich Dezine Signs PO BOX 6052 Stn Forces Cold Lake, Alberta T9M 2C5 Posts: 774 | From: Cold Lake | Registered: Mar 2000
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It was probably 20 years ago that I first had my own shop. It was on a busy highway. I had a small sign out by the road, lots of walk in traffic.
But I tried that here, and it's not the same. The market here is different, or the trade everywhere is different. When I first opened this shop, I put out signs, and spent alot of time waiting for customers to come into my shop, as I was the only counter personel. It didn't happen, I should have been more active outside the shop.
Bruce williams the radio guy says that anytime you open a business, have enough cash on hand to keep the doors open for a year with no sales. I did that, it was my life savings. It might not have been as necessary had I known the region and business climate better. That doesn't sound like your situation, as you're not stepping into a different culture.
What kept me afloat the early years was the tourist area about 20 miles away.
DO CHECK OUT a recent posting (last couple of days) called something like: "I guess I'm done eating now". People were talking about being in contact with architect's associations. I'd also try RE agents. Some sales might come off the beaten path, where other sign people havn't been.
That previous reply about going in with a sketch works. Remember, the customer's mind doesn't "see" sign ideas like yours does. It starts the conversation out more in the answer mode rather than the question mode. In their mind the question will be accompanied by a blank.
Like Bob Segar (sp?) I've got my deadlines and commitments, or I'd wish to come there and shake the bushes with ya.
Can't help but wonder, WWSD? Scooter, you out there?
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
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Okay Corey, lets hear it ....why should I buy my signs from you? What's special about your work? What can you offer me above the other shops? Anyone else want to chime in with what they do that is special so Corey has some ideas? Hmmmmn, wonder what I do that's special.
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5496 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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Here are a few things that I do that is different in approach of customers..
If I pull into a parking lot and scout around to see what type of vehicles are parked there.
Any commerical vans,Pick-ups with no lettering get a small note with a business card between the driver's window and door handle. Asking if they have any ideas on thier advertizing needs..And when they have a moment Call Me!
Lots of Marine Vessels, Boats here..
Get to know their local Repair person and hand some cards to him. As they are on the job site all the time and know when a customer is looking for something to be done on it.
I have had people traveling down the road on their bikes waving at me to roll down the window and want a business card passed over as we are both driving alone.
Keep passing the cards out and never give a price on the first question. Always tell them you have to work on labour and material prices in order to give them a fair deal with the quality workmanship.
-------------------- Stephen Deveau RavenGraphics Insinx Digital Displays
Letting Your Imagination Run Wild! Posts: 4327 | From: Lower Sackville, Nova Scotia, Canada | Registered: Jan 2000
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Corey, something I started which seems to work better than doing regular sales calls.
When you pop into a business with your card & portfolio in hand, tell them you were on a delivery or meeting with another client and noticed their sign (or lack thereof). It sounds better than telling them you were out on sales calls. You can tell them you've seen the sign for years & were thinking how used to it you got driving by it all the time & couldn't help but wonder if a new sign would bring renewed interest for their business. Tell them you notice the vinyl is peeling, the paint is fading, etc. and that a wore out sign sends subconscious messages to potential customers. Here we have some big highway projects going on and some businesses are now further back from the highway than they used to be & as a result their sign is harder to read. What a great chance for a new sign.
Here in Pa, fictitious name registrations have to be advertised in the paper. Send a quick note to the listed owner.
The $100-$300 jobs aren't the greatest, but I have seen some of these end up resulting in serious $ jobs. Consider them an audition for future work. Besides, a new business may only be able to afford a $200 sign today, but a year from now, they may decide business is great & the $ is there to get the sign they wanted.
Research the 3 tier pricing system. It works. I use it probably 95% of the time and I have only ever sold the lowest choice once.
-------------------- Chris Welker Wildfire Signs Indiana, Pa Posts: 4254 | From: Indiana, PA | Registered: Mar 2001
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Yeah! Do what Kissy and I do............ Lie like hell!
heh........
k31
-------------------- Pierre St.Marie Stmariegraphics Kalispell,Mt www.stmariegraphics.com ------------------ Plan on knowing everything before I die and time's running out! Posts: 4223 | From: Kalispell,Mt 59903 | Registered: Mar 2000
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This advise is awesome...I wish these great people were around to tap from twenty years ago! I think i speak for all of us when I say we want you to succeed. You have to WANT to win. You would'nt have posted unless you do. Print off this page and refer to it often. We want to hear good things about you. Remember, nobody ever really graduates from this school. Keep us posted
""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3503 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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I don't know if it has been mentioned, but if not, I would add that
1)always ask an "open-ended question". Any question you can answer with a "yes or no" is to be avoided. This allows you to steer a conversation and lead the client.
Another way to look at that is always ask a question as an option...Don't ask questions that can be answered with one word- you want the customer to open up dialog and not stand there going "Yup"; "Nope"; "Maybe"; "Tomorrow". Questions (when appropriate) that give an "either/or" option force the customer to think.
-------------------- Steve Burke Cascades Inc NS Canada
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving isn't for you Posts: 359 | From: NS Canada | Registered: Jan 2002
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-------------------- Pierre St.Marie Stmariegraphics Kalispell,Mt www.stmariegraphics.com ------------------ Plan on knowing everything before I die and time's running out! Posts: 4223 | From: Kalispell,Mt 59903 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
Thanks for all the replies. We all want each and everyone of us to succeed! Some great advice here. As I learn, I will apply most of it. In addition ( I think Ian replied) I do have embroidered hats to hand out to long term customers or higher rollers and a personal embroidered jacket (it's friggin cule) but that's what I think. Question for Chris.......where can I obtain morinfo on the 3 tier pricing system?
To Steve E. - Yes I know that Calgary is 10 minutes away. There's hypocritical issues within this city that wants to be such a big city but also wants to remain small.
The ongoing motto of Airdrie is "keep it in airdrie". However, the city gets dozens of quotes from Calgary and if I am more pricy by a dime, I missed out! Hey my phone is ringing and it's the Chamber looking fer some signs!!!!!!!......a new door opens?
I hopefully will prespond more on this thread later. Thanks again and keep up the advice..for all. I GOTTA WORK! fer now!
""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3503 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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I read the first half of this thread several days ago & I think it was said once, but I'll re-state that you should use some of the time that a slump in sales gives, to spruce up your own signage.
I am fortunant enough to have a steady flow of business, so I show up & work comes. I do use the 3 tier system to upsell, although I often get lazy & give 2 choices instead of 3.
I noticed that when meeting with a contractor who I was going to be paying a lot of money to, I wanted to try to work some trade into the deal. We were standing in my driveway by his truck & I launched into my truck lettering pitch. I have come up with some good comments over the years when new clients come in for 1 type of sign & I get them thinking about all the extra exposure they would get advertising on their vehicle. Well, I was halfway into my pitch when I remembered we were also standing next to my truck. My last truck was lettered up real nice, but about 10 months ago I traded up to a new truck, & I've been so busy I still haven't done any advertising on it yet. That realization took a lot of the confidence out of my sales pitch, & I ended up paying cash for that guys work.
As for more 3-tier pricing info, you could try a search but it is basically... spell there name correctly in their choosen color & show them your cheapest white material. Then add some outlines or some curved lettering, maybe add a background color. Then the 3rd choice would have maybe 3 colors including some fades or textures, some clip-art (or original illustrations) a better substrate & then they will want to spend several hundred dollars more then what they told you your budget is. Of course you cant design all three with their sign layout because you might be working for free, so get samples of 3 versions of the same layout to show them, or if you are good with quick sketchs, sketch out 3 tiers with their layout, then show them the samples.
posted
I like Deb's thought about "Hey, here's a qucikie rendering of what I could do for you to clean things/jazz things up"
I'm in the middle of putting together a SIGNS WE'VE SEEN around the country presentation---shots of the Good, The Bad, The Ugly, and the Falling Apart. Not out to throw any stones at anyone, more done just to open people's eyes. Things like "Look what happens to Black Corrugated Plastic when it's been put up with fender washers on the south side of a building with Cal vinyl on it 30 months ago"---that kind of thing. Not that you want to slap anyone in the face or kick them, but maybe they don't realize how important that sign ultimately is to their success.
The point about "hey, I was just dropping something off at the neighbour's" is a good one---right away, you're not as threatening to them---just make sure you have an idea who the neighbour might be if you get called on it!
Did you do both sides of your vehicle the same? I know a guy that tries this approach--cheaper, more basic graphics on one side, then an all out beauty Hi-Q job on the other. That way, you can show off a $500 job vs. a $1300 job. PLUS, people thinks he's got 2 shop trucks!--think about it, they only ever see once side at a time...
At the time I bought my truck, I only had time to get one side done and left the second side blank. The plan was originally to finish it a few days later, but I found out folks were noticing the truck more when I was making quick trips thru town. Many of them were considering magnets, but called for more elaborate stuff when they realized how much it changed the whole truck. I wound up leaving that way for over a month...cause I got so busy!
Admittedly, it was a fluke, but since then I have done some other stuff to it without ever really finishing it. It's been the best business card I have ever had, and folks approach asking for my "Real" business cards.
Everyone here has had some great posts and I hope this gives you some optimism. I only found Letterville a few months ago, but I continue to learn from all of these messages after years in the sign biz. I envy you the advantage you have as a new biz. You'll be posting on this site with your experiences before you know it. Keep with it...it gets better every day.
-------------------- Ray Rheaume Rapidfire Design 543 Brushwood Road North Haverhill, NH 03774 rapidfiredesign@hotmail.com 603-787-6803
I like my paint shaken, not stirred. Posts: 5648 | From: North Haverhill, New Hampshire | Registered: Apr 2003
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Oh, I got business however, I need higher paying jobs. tinkery $100-$300 jobs.![[Confused]](confused.gif)
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Plus alot of 'em are selling crap that is hard to make a living off of - Craft Shops and aniques and such.![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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