Wow! I put it all on the table, now I'm taking it back off. Sorry I wasted so much of everyone's time. I really learned a lot and I thank you everyone who had a caring and productive response. the encouragement shall be cherished. I'm still not giving up on my dream.
Some folks have gotten the impression that this guy is some greasy ole, good for nothing pervert. You couldn't be any further from the truth! He's actually like family and I know for a fact that he would most likely be the last person on this planet to cause me any grief and one of the first protect me, should my 120 lb "puppy" get alzheimer's.
[ June 11, 2003, 02:08 PM: Message edited by: Linda Silver Eagle ]
1. He wants to help you... but he won't take cash.
2. The current offer is not entirely suitable...
3. ...because his refusal of taking cash creates the "jealousy" problem.
4. You are tempted by offer bacause of it's value & fact that it is almost suitable, & trying to force it to be a good fit for you.
I think you should turn down the offer as it stands because it is not suitable. (security reasons, & you haven't said you prefer working nights, so maybe you would like working days if possible?)
If you put your security & your other working condition preferences FIRST, he will respect that & will still want to help you, realizing that his first offer isn't right just yet.
Make a counter offer of giving him a percentage of the work that you do in that location. If he really doesn't want your money, his "percentage" could be payable in trade for signage, murals etc.
Even employees who are family should not need to know all the details of their employers business deals. If you are compensating this guy in some manner that may circumvent the "jealously" problem & allow you safer working hours.
posted
I had a similar offer last year from a very good customer. He had built a new auto shop and had a 1000 sq.ft. bay that he ofered at an EXTREMELY low rent. I have done a few jobs there since, but have not taken him up on the offer for the shop for a few reasons.
It's a working garage and if I did any wood cutting, which I do all the time, there is a risk of having an open engine get sawdust in it. Not good. The mechanics often use aerosol lubricants. Although the shop is large, some of these tend to hang in the air. Can you say "fisheye"? The shop is huge compared to what I have now, but it is difficult to bring vehicles in because of a narrow parking lot, usually full of cars waiting to be worked on. No office space at all.
Linda, what you might want to do is ask this person for a trial run. Line up a few jobs and test the working conditions before diving in. Good Luck!
-------------------- Ray Rheaume Rapidfire Design 543 Brushwood Road North Haverhill, NH 03774 rapidfiredesign@hotmail.com 603-787-6803
I like my paint shaken, not stirred. Posts: 5648 | From: North Haverhill, New Hampshire | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged |
I shared space back in the mid 80's with a pinstriper friend of mine on the East side of Buffalo. As much as I liked him, we still got in each other's way at time.
Working around other people's "stuff" and their schedules can make for some uncomfortable times. I find it difficult to rationalize the spending of my own money to make someone else's space suitable for my needs.
My personal safety would be my #1 concern here. Because people would have unfettered access to the shop at all hours, not mention the accessability of all your "stuff", I would find this type of arrangement uncomfortable.
It seems as though he has trust issues with "the boys" and is looking for you to become his eyes and ears while he isn't around. No one likes a "snitch" and I would hate to see you put into that position.
You are a smart person and you deserve not to be holding to anyone. Look for something else that will fill YOUR needs and wants.
Have a great one, Kiddo!
-------------------- Bruce Bowers
DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter Posts: 6464 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
Linda, I see some really good points in the replies. I sit here and feel very uncomfortable about this potential situation - maybe because of the safety concerns you voiced. There is also a feeling that in spite of your careful description I still don't know enough about it to really have an opinion.
Do examine as carefully as you can any motive the man may have to help you. No matter what is said in words, underlying them is self interest. That is the human condition. It could be something as noble as that he wants to prove to himself that he can be selfless and wonderful.
Ultimately go with your gut. You have lived a while and built up instincts. So use them. If it does not fully feel right, which is what I am sensing, stay away from it. Above all, preserve your independence and don't let yourself get beholden to anyone.
-------------------- Myra A. Grozinger Signs Limited Winston-Salem, NC
signslimited@triad.rr.com Posts: 1244 | From: Winston-Salem, NC USA | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
When I first Started in N.S. I put an ad in the local paper. I got a response from a gentleman that had a warehouse space.I paid him on a daily base of use.. A small time sheet for hours used. Working on the honor system. No Heat,lights only, and no washroom.
I payed his asking price and in return I did many profit jobs for him. I say that you have to have sometype of agreement with this person. From a nickel a day or 50 dollars a day. It works out better in the end when both parties move on.Like you said Security is an issue, but I don't know your area... Maybe your husband/Boyfriend can stay with you as your working or hire a summer student that is willing to help out at nights. 2 people there is better then one.
Write the fine line before you make your move.
-------------------- Stephen Deveau RavenGraphics Insinx Digital Displays
Letting Your Imagination Run Wild! Posts: 4327 | From: Lower Sackville, Nova Scotia, Canada | Registered: Jan 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
NO WAY, Linda!! Lots of those guys are going to know you're alone there at night! F-O-R-get it! Having a 9mm won't mean much unless you've really had the training to use it right or when to know NOT to use it at all. I use my .45 on our range at home often, and I can tell you that using it effectively isn't as easy as some folks think! Something else that Dad worked on with me really hard is the "psychology" of when to use and when not to use force of arms. That part was important to me cuz you won't have much time to think when the real thing happens! If Steve allows me, maybe I can do a post on that someday, no? I would be scared for you, Linda. Please don't do it? And I'm with Myra again on the other stuff.
posted
Linda, the posts that mention you paying some token amount of money and having a lease are right on. I can appreciate this guy's appreciation of your work and your ethics, but, business is business and without a couple of signitures on a contract, you don't have a place of business. If he's the crack business guy that he seems, he should be able to understand your concerns. Without a contract you could be out tomorrow. If he's got that much money, suggest that he buy the 'boys' a rundown bar to hang out in. Garages are for makin' money, bars are for drinkin'.
My advise would be to turn down the offer. Aside from safety issues, or having people stopping by at night while you're working, I'd say that you would be better off working the same schedule as your clients, daytime. It would be too hard to have a business running with the handicap of only doing it at night.Everyone else, from delivery people to hardware stores, are on one schedule, and you'r on another...I don't think so. And another thing...you'd probably wear yourself out, because I think you'd still be up doing stuff during the day, and then work at night too, so when do you have time off?
Besides...my intuition says don't do it. I rely on that alot more lately than I used to. Those first reactions are usually daed on, even if you don't know exactly why.
-------------------- Jeff Ogden 8727 NE 68 Terr. Gainesville FL, 32609 Posts: 2138 | From: 8827 NE 68 Terr Gainesville Fl 32609 | Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
Linda, I only briefly scanned everyone's replies, and my response will be very brief.
If it were me, I'd graciously back away from this one. Aside from the safety issue, which in itself is a deal breaker for me, there's too many variables and potential here for getting in a tight spot at some point with this guy. Consider that he already wants to call the shots, even if in a nice way. ex: Won't accept your payments, etc. I sense a red flag.
My instincts say no.
Keep yourself tangle free. Nettie
-------------------- "When Love and Skill Work Together ... Expect a Masterpiece"
posted
Linda, you bet he ought to pay for the truck. You can't change his offer of "free" for the space by getting yourself into a mutual back patting relationship, where you constantly feel you owe him, and where there there are no clear parameters. This is soooo dangerous, because somebody is going to feel exploited. If I were you, and if I felt like I wanted to try this out, I would write down the specifics of what he offered you and that he did it from the goodness of his heart, the things you can and cannot do, the time you can and cannot be there. Write down what you offered back. Write down he rejected those things. Then write down what he promised and what you would promise in return (even if that means that you will keep it in good shape and treasure the help and hope to rent it from him in the future). Put a time on there, like in a lease, where you will revisit the issue, and before which the contract ought not be terminated unless there is a breach of faith. Then make sure you thank him from the bottom of your heart, in writing. Have both sign it. Smile. Unusual circumstances warrant unusual responses. Do find a way to settle the safety issues. How about an alarm system wired to the police. Dogs are as good or better in my experience,(the one time I was robbed the robber stood in front of my hidden button and I was unable to push it) and why can't the doors be locked and you have the dog with you by your side? Best wishes - whatever you decide!
-------------------- Myra A. Grozinger Signs Limited Winston-Salem, NC
signslimited@triad.rr.com Posts: 1244 | From: Winston-Salem, NC USA | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
I'd say pass also, I see some red flags too. I do a lot of trucks and I really don't see any advantages to working at night on trucks either, a lot of them don't get turned off for weeks, literally. It's just as easy for them to work around your schedule as it is for you to work around theirs. Working mobile is just to easy. Need a shop to work in, let them locate one, you'ld be suprised how quickly they come up with one. How far is the nearest truck dealer? I've got easy access to a bay at truck dealers in three states. I can understand your worrying about safety, but is W.Va that bad? The main drawback to working nights are the "clingons" those folks who have no lives, nowhere to go and nothing to do. I've seen situations like this way to many time and dispite your best attempts to prevent it it WILL happen. Throw in the fact that you are a gal and it will be even worse. Even if it's harmless just how many times can you listen to Bubba's six lame ass jokes?...................Pass.
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
posted
Linda, I hate packing stuff up too, all my sign stuff is in the back of my truck where it stays all the time. The only thing I have to pack up is me
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
posted
In the past I have jumped at things I thought were sure deals on the surface. I have also done the same on things that wre almost sure deals. I now try to think things through to the end. In the long run it is your gut that will tell you what to do and I think it already has. You have enough questions in your own mind that you came here to ask your fellow sign friends. Those feelings in your gut should be telling you NO. I think anything short of a monthly rent for a monthly space is not acceptable. Linda, let this one pass. You will know when it is right and then and only then will you jump. Good luck and keep plugging away.
-------------------- Rob Larkham Sign Techniques Inc. Chicopee, Ma Posts: 607 | From: Chester, Ma. | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
Oh, well. Then do it, Linda. You'll never know if you missed something cool if you don't try I guess. You can always pull a pistol and slowly back out of the room, no? What are the laws about pistols where you live? If you don't know I'll have Dad find out. He agrees that there should at least be one on premises if you're going to be there alone at night. Specially if lots of different guys catch on to your being alone there. I'll help you with lots of information.
Its a mixed bag -- i'm inclined to side with George -- there's something about this deal that doesn't ring right. Is the guy using the offer to get closer to you? (romantic intentions?)
He's a businessman -- I've never met one who was "too busy" to execute a simple lease. By giving you a key, he's already opened himself up for any liability issues, so why isn't he taking the ten minutes to make your "deal" a legitimate one?
So, to answer your question: how to make it all "work" for YOU? Here are my thoughts:
1. work lights -- three of those halogen lights with stands that house painters use will set you back about $200 -- and will light up the side of a truck cab like its noon in Phoenix. they'll warm up the air a bit, too.
2. security -- first, get a cel phone. then, find one of these disadvantaged people you're trying to help, and invite them to come to the shop with you on nights you're working their. you can teach them a bit about what you're doing, and give them someplace to be other than home, or a bar. you can pay them to clean the truck, wipe brushes, or whatever, if you want. or, bring your daughter with you -- she can do her homework while you work.
3. pay the shop owner a rent -- if he doesn't want to take your money, then keep a ledger of what you WOULD HAVE paid him, and donate that money to one of the many worthy causes (non-profit group, church, whatever). that way you'll be helping him to help others, AND you'll establish YOUR BUSINESS credibility and not be a "pet charity" of this guy.
4. tell everybody you're working with that you're only their temporarily and that you're looking for a better place to set up. let them hunt for you.
5. those boxes of stuff you have... keep them at home or get a storage space someplace. this space isn't it -- not unless you've got a lease to come and go as you want, at all hours. with all the work you'll be able to do at the "free" space, you'll easily be able to afford to rent a storage space after a couple of jobs. this "free" space is just for trucks -- don't turn it into your studio until it really is YOUR studio.
6. follow George's advice and rig out your truck to "go mobile". I've forgotten where you live, but i'm guessing you could be serving the tri-state area. you don't have to work in truck lots -- you can work in service bays, truck dealers, and the heated garages of some of the trucking companies you want to work for. In six months of truck work you'll have enough money to either find a bigger apartment, or you'll find some other studio space for the easels.
Hope that helps.
-------------------- :: Scooter Marriner :: :: Coyote Signs :: :: Oakland, CA :: :: still a beginner :: :: Posts: 1356 | From: Oakland (and San Francisco) | Registered: Mar 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
Is it just me, or does this sound like a script right out of "The Dukes of Hazzard"? We have a lady in distress, the "richest guy in the County' (Boss Hogg), some misbehaving offspring, a hero puppy, and a fly-by-night painting shop/repair shop with "Cooter" tearing down trucks & motors. All that's missing so far is Sherriff Roscoe P. Coaltraine, and Flash the Wonder Dog.
Maybe they'll put in an appearance during the next act.
-------------------- Ken Henry Henry & Henry Signs London, Ontario Canada (519) 439-1881 e-mail: kjmlhenry@rogers.com
Why do I get all those on-line offers to sell me Viagara, when the only thing hardening is my arteries ? Posts: 2689 | From: London,Ontario, Canada | Registered: Feb 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
I posted while you were and have to edit it now. Linda, if you are voicing security and safety issues then I would have to say your subconscious is telling you there is a potential problem and you should listen to it. This is good in any situation, not just this one. There are things I do daily that I never give a second thought to. Then there was this guy who wanted me to stripe his truck and gave me the creeps from the word "Hello" and it only got worse. I passed on the job. I still can't put my finger on it, but there was just something "not right". As for finding you a better area, If he let you set up a plan like Stephen mentioned, that would work. If he claims he doesn't need the money, tell him he could donate all the $ you pay him to the animal shelter or children's hospital or something in his name. At least you know you're not getting a free ride for now but waiting for the bill to come. Also, if something should happen to him, his kids could claim you owe back rent. Just way too many "ifs". On another note, you mentioned bad lighting. If the lighting is ok, but not good enough to paint with, I bought one of those adjustable work lights at Lowes. $40 or so.It has 2 lights that can be angled any direction and can be raised from 2' to well above my head. It can be knocked down and takes up about as much space as my killer-kart. I take it on jobs with me and when it's in my shop, it never sits in the same place long. Whatever you do, make sure their is a very tight lease or agreement as to who is responsible for what (ins, utilities, maintenance). It may be a pain, but having something in place will prevent future butt-bites.
posted
Linda, you sure do have some friends, some friends with real good advice.
The best answer might still be no, but if you are going to do it, these are the problems I see:
Always working at night is a real drag. Sometimes recovery can take twice as long as working the same amount of time on a day shift.
Almost without exception, when somebody gives me a five dollar favor, they want a 50 or 500 dollar return favor. You already know how hard it is to convince people of our product's value. THERE MUST BE some sort of agreement beforehand.
Steven D. had some good points. Doing it on a daily basis wouldn't tie you up EVERY night.
I don't know if it's German heritage or what but we were taught to always make people glad they had loaned us something. Clean extra well before you leave, etc.
If this is from God, he'll allow you to make the arrangements you need. By the way, I really like some of your community goals. You ever read the introduction/forwards in the front of the "Foxfire" books?
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
HI Linda. I have read the replys to your posts. 1st your not Jackie Chan. and its hard enough to do work and try to look over your shoulder. Naaa wong. the whole thing STINKS, I question His Motives. Like your work so here's a "SPOT" Naaa. there is something else, going on.
Good Luck Regards Danny Busselle
-------------------- Danny Bussell Tujunga, California
Bootleg on Chat
"Keep The Rubber Side Down" Posts: 213 | From: Tujunga, California | Registered: Mar 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
As tempting as "free" may sound, don't do it. Personally, it sounds like a pain in the neck to me. As soon as you get a truck prepped Bubba Jack is gonna come over and lean against it with his greasy jeans and sweaty person. No matter how many times you ask him not to do that you will hear, "Sorry Linder, Ah fergawt."
Then there is Billy Bob. He is amazed at all the tools of the trade and loves watching you put them to use. "Gawl Lee Jee Linder, this shore is ah fine brush" as he dips it into his beer!
Even without the other concerns, safety, etc., I would have to pass on this deal.
-------------------- Kathy Joiner River Road Graphics 41628 River Road Ponchatoula, La.70454
Old enough to know better...Too young to resist. Posts: 1891 | From: Ponchatoula, LA | Registered: Nov 2000
| IP: Logged |
I do want you to know that I drew no inference from your first post this morning that your friends intentions were anything but honourable. My advise to get a lease was/is as much to protect your friendship with him, as to protect you, and him, legally. A lease simply spells out the relationship.
I hope you weren't overwhelmed by our responses, I believe everyone means you well and truly hopes things will work out for you... as I'm sure they will
Mike
-------------------- Mike O'Neill
It has yet to be proven that intelligence has any survival value. - Arthur C. Clarke
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Good.
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
"SPOT" ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic