posted
In my area we have three sign companies that have established businesses with store fronts, and several "garage sign makers." It seems everyone wants to try to lowball each other, but I don't want to play that game. I was considering setting up a meeting with the two other owners and trying to talk them into a pricing agreement of more profitability for everyone. So we have an idea of what each other has been getting and can get for our work. We are all vinyl shops. My main thought was to try to educate them on how much more I use to get before they showed up.
posted
Nah, I think that would be collusion and price fixing and might even be illegal if you are bidding on a gov't contract. You might be able to invite one or two to "ride along" to a letterheads meet where the topic would naturally come up.
or-
Just invest in a few copies of the Sign Contractors pricing guide and send them anonomously to the offending shops. They'll probably think some supplier sent them gratis. Maybe they'll wise up. If they don't, you won't have to worry too long. They won't stay in business forever if they are not charging enough to make a living.
posted
Man- that is an interesting question. One I have considered myself. It makes sense to do it. Standardizing pricing would mean more money for everyone IF one of 'em didn't crawfish and go back to rock-bottoming it.
Trust would be the big squeeze there...
I'd talk to 'em, and see if they seem to you to be reasonable people. It might work, or they may see it as a ploy on your part to find their rates to FURTHER undercut THEM.
It's a hard one.
B
P.S. I maintain an amicable if somewhat cagey relationship to both the stores in this area, but one in particular still seems to undercut me....
posted
Donald, It sounds tempting but it could backfire. One of them could pass the word on to customers that you are "conspiring" to fix prices. I wonder if a lot of professions such as physicians, lawyers etc. don't have a little system of standardizing their fees. Maybe they do, I don't know. It would be good to get the message to these folks somehow.
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7405 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
TRULY.....the ONLY thing that will work is to RAISE YOUR PRICES.....MAKE SURE ALL YOUR OUTPUT IS QUALITY...and give AWESOME SERVICE (quick and dependable)!!!!! This isn't the answer you're looking for, but it's the ONLY ONE that works! Your competition will screw you whenever he can NO MATTER WHAT!
posted
In the bodyshop world they have a term "prevailing rate", its pretty much an average of shops in the area and this is what the Ins. co. would usually pay. Start an association and share info. on prices, then you (as individuals) may decide to change your pricing above below or right at "the prevailing rate" !
Roger
-------------------- Roger Bailey Rapid Tac Incorporated 186 Combs Dr. Merlin Oregon 97532 Posts: 3020 | From: Merlin Oregon | Registered: Dec 1998
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posted
Why not just stop in to say Hi, and shoot the breeze for a while?
I'm on good terms with the other sign shops in my town, I know about what everyone charges, they know what I charge so if a customer tries to play the game ("Yeah? well so and so will do it for blah blah") we all know the customer is full of crap... Hell, one of the shops (it's a garage-based operation at that) is my new supplier!! They're a distributor for Neschen and they stock EVERYTHING and at least two full rolls of it.. nice and convenient.
Of course we don't organize get togethers and discuss prices, we just call each other when in need of certain materials or even artwork, and when we visit each other's locations we talk about work, complain about customers, ask about the pricetag for a job that might be hangin on the wall waiting for pick-up.
We're all pretty close on pricing and it seems everyone's on the same page regarding upholding those prices and not slashing each other's throats to get the jobs.
I know one thing, every shop whether a retail location or home/garage based gig is busier than hell (booming town) so there's no reason for price slashing.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
I for the most part agree with Bob Burns on this issue. I called my competitor the other day to say hi and see how biz has been with him.
He is 1/8 mile up the street from me. He said his phone hasn't rang in the past ten days and mine is ringing off the hook.
But then again I do offer a hundred times more to the customer than what he is able to.
Be the very damn best you can be and eventually they will beat your door down even when others will sell cheaper. Chances are the other won't be around very long anyway if they keep selling cheaper and cheaper.
-------------------- Bob Stephens Skywatch Signs Zephyrhills, FL
posted
I'm with Mike on this one. Sometimes just shooting the breeze gets better results. I have spoken to some of the other signers in the area over the last 3 weeks and found that they have all been open to discussions about pricing and fair competition. Although it's a smaller market up this way, the comaradarie and shared experiences make it easy to smooth the way for more serious discussions later. Over the last few weekends, it has been like mini-meets in my shop, with some of the other signers stopping in, trading tips and tricks, and generally having some fun.
-------------------- Ray Rheaume Rapidfire Design 543 Brushwood Road North Haverhill, NH 03774 rapidfiredesign@hotmail.com 603-787-6803
I like my paint shaken, not stirred. Posts: 5648 | From: North Haverhill, New Hampshire | Registered: Apr 2003
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Back in the days when there were gas stations on four corners and constant price wars, a station owner sent a letter to the other stations proposing that they get together and agree on pricing. They did, they got caught, and the fellow who wrote the letter did hard time.
"How to price" forums such as here at Letterheads are totally legal because no one is colluding to fix prices.
Price fixing is bad form in any event. Your reputation is one of your most important business assets. Vic G
-------------------- Victor Georgiou Danville, CA , USA Posts: 1746 | From: Danville, CA , USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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posted
Hi Donald. I'm going to relate to you a story I once heard, and it's one of the BEST ways to handle a lowballer that I've ever heard. Apparently there was this guy in a relatively small town who decided to "corner the market" on truck lettering in that community. To this end, he ran an ad proclaiming that he'd beat any written estimate by 20 bucks, for van/truck lettering. This was the opening shot in an undeclared WAR! The other signpeople in that community were understandably preturbed and upset.
Shortly after this "opening salvo" was fired, one of this guy's employees dropped in to visit one of the offended competitors. This was too good an opportunity to pass up, so one of the co-owners took this employee aside and told him this...or words to this effect: " If your boss doesn't smarten up and start competing fairly, he'll soon have to start working FOR FREE. The next call we get for truck lettering will get a written estimate for exactly 20 bucks. Then we'll tell them "but don't get us to do the job. So-and-so, up the street will beat out estimate by 20 bucks...HERE"S HIS AD!".
The lowballer got the message LOUD and CLEAR.
This story was originally related to me by none other than the First Lady of Letterville....Barb Shortreed. Right then, I knew that Barb was capable of really KICKING A$$ whenever someone got her dander up.
-------------------- Ken Henry Henry & Henry Signs London, Ontario Canada (519) 439-1881 e-mail: kjmlhenry@rogers.com
Why do I get all those on-line offers to sell me Viagara, when the only thing hardening is my arteries ? Posts: 2689 | From: London,Ontario, Canada | Registered: Feb 1999
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posted
I really appreciate everyone's views, opinions, and experience on this issue. This is my first Topic Post and it means alot to have your responses. I didn't want to talk with them to price fix, but to talk about fair pricing for everyone. Thanks again!
posted
HHAHA!! Hey, Don, ai'nt you havin' that new Dixie meet 'round there? There's prol'y gonna be a awful lot'a rednecks there....maybe we could help ya out bro! LOL!! Nah, jes' kiddin'. Talkin' to the other shops and findin' out that they do best somethin' you hate and you do best somethin' they get a lotta calls for, ya'll can just send one another work. And those real cheap "jo-wino's" you ALL need them to send them cheapo's you don't want to!
-------------------- Signs Sweet Home Alabama
oneshot on chat
"Look like a girl, act like a lady, think like a man, work like a dog" Posts: 5758 | From: "Sweet Home" Alabama | Registered: Mar 2003
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Barb was right when she mentioned pricing discussions. Our NYS Sign Association director told us that any discussion of pricing at the meetings would violate Federal Trade laws.
We have a sign guy around here that used to call us up and BS us pricing and how we all got to stick together while trying to stick it up your butt while you weren't looking.
Three kinds of pricing... What the signee says they got, what the customer says he paid, and what the real price was... LOL!
-------------------- Bruce Bowers
DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter Posts: 6464 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
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posted
when i first went in the sign business 30 something years ago this sign man told a friend of mine that he was going to put me out of business. if he knew that i bid on a sign he would cut the price. if it was a sign that i didn't want to do i would bid it at cost of material and tell the customer to call him and tell him what i bid and he would do it for less than cost. worked him to death. i am still in business. always the highest and proud of it.
-------------------- Jimmy Chatham Chatham Signs 468 stark st Commerce, Ga 30529 Posts: 1766 | From: Commerce, GA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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