I have had at least 2 myself, but its better than bigger natural breasts, larger penis, viagra without a perscription, and penny's porn palace e-mails.
so if I could trade em all I'd take more Blue book e-mails than the other. lol
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I'm getting sick of them too. Over the past couple months, I've got a lot more than 2 from that address. I just got spamkiller and that address is now on the "automatically kill" list.
-------------------- Chris Welker Wildfire Signs Indiana, Pa Posts: 4254 | From: Indiana, PA | Registered: Mar 2001
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Yep, here too.....20 junks a day with one legitimate one I care to look at....And love the funnies that come from the other 'heads of the board.
-------------------- Skidmore Sign Co. 3806 1st Avenue North Birmingham AL 35222 205-251-6049
Skidmore Signs - Facebook
"Success always occurs in private, but failure in full view."
posted
I get that sign blue book thing and a couple of others sign related and the only place they could get this email address is out of my profile since i dont use this one anywhere else...i sure hope this isn't all they have to do all day long.
-------------------- Gavin Chachere Plotter in the garage,New Orleans La.
"Sgts Shugart and Gordon again request permission to rope down to crash site two" Posts: 1223 | From: new orleans.la. | Registered: Mar 2000
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I put that blue book on my Yahoo Schyt list so it just bounces of me and back to them.... kinda like "I'm rubber and you're glue....."! I also offered them my opinion of thier book, not sure which was more effective
-------------------- "No excuses!.... No regrets!..."
posted
Yup. Blue book here too. I just sent it straight to the trash.
-------------------- Richard Bustamante Signs in the Pines www.signsinthepines.com Posts: 781 | From: Nevada City, California | Registered: Nov 1998
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I wouldn't mind so much if it was one email......it's almost expected when you have your email addy on a public forum....but when I get multiples from the same ppl......then it's just SPAM like the rest of 'em!
posted
yup, 2 or 3 blue book ones. Finally hit their "remove me" link knowing it's more then likely to verify that mine is a viable address to use, sell, etc. Since it was sign related, I wanted to believe it was just a small business owner trying to advertise his product, & not some schmuck who would further ensnare my addy with the email spammer skum of the earth populace.
I got about 5 or 6 spam solicitations of some "convention" or "conference" thing all written in french (which I can't read)I finally sent about 5 or 6 colorfully worded variations of "buzz off", but 5 days later found that their email box was too full (of other hate mail I assume) so mine bounced back. Anyone else getting this junk? Anyone know what it says?
posted
Thanks to whoever sent me the fax to let me know that this little string was devloping.
I am that @#&$% that has sent out those @#$%& e-mails that some of you have referred to.
Fact is, only 3 e-mails have gone out since April 22. Anyone who has received more than three must have more than one e-mail address.
But, hey guys, lighten up. It's e-mail. And if your keyboard is like mine, it should have a delete key. (As a matter of fact, there should be two of them. Now that's convenient.) And it doesn't fill up your trash can like all the stuff you get in your regular mail.
I guess sending a nasty e-mail reply is a whole lot easier than calling up all those people that stuff your regular mail box with "unsolicited" mail and complain to them. (Is that considered "spam" too?)
Just so that you all know, there is a "remove" button at the end of the e-mail. And I comply with any and all requests for removal. (Except one. Sorry Geet. I missed ya the first time, but I got ya this time.)
But, I don't let it get to me too much. The feedback has been far more positive than negative. Besides, didn't someone say that there is no such thing as bad publicity. So Thanks Guys.
Oh, and to whoever sent the faxes, I think it was pretty cool how you did that anonymously. (I think that only one or two Federal Laws was broken there). But, you go! Renegade!
-------------------- Brian Hinkle Hincor/Sign Blue Book Mesa, Arizona Posts: 13 | From: Mesa, Arizona | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
I have mixed feelings on spam. Let me first say that we get 350-400 email messages here at letterhead.com everyday. That's after we retired letterheads.com and set our mail filters to catch a bunch of this stuff before it even gets here.
Yes! It's a real pain in the butt sorting thru all those messages. It takes up valuable time and I sometimes fear we toss out something legit in our haste to sort thru the mess. It's especially aggravating to get multiple copies of the same message. Is it time to ban all unsolicited advertising?
What about our business? Do we not spend most of our careers producing ad messages that the public are forced to look at? I can't even walk down the main street here without seeing all sorts of ads that I produced, staring me in the face. Should OUR forms of advertising be banned. There are some that believe so.
So whats's the answer? We all live in countries that believe in free speech. Advertising is as American as apple pie. My snail mailbox is packed with unsolicited promotions everday. How many times have I saw articles here and in magazines, teaching us how to create that perfect promotional brochure or flyer? One can't help but raise an eyebrow when we see those that make a living via advertising, cursing the very product that feeds us.
From time to time, someone will insinuate that Letterville is providing those that sell to us a mailing list. We made a promise years ago that we would never do that and we never have. Never will either. That's just our choice.
Having said that, you need to be aware that this practise is not illegal. At least one sign related site rents out it's mailing list to anyone willing to pay the price. There is also a CD out there that is for sale to our suppliers. It contains thousands of names gathered from various sources. Mailing lists of potential buyers in any trades have been available long before computers we even dreamed of. I'm just as annoyed as the rest of you to learn people are profiting by selling my name, address and other personal information without my written permission.
Whenever we get any sign related e-mail, Barb will immediately email and/or call the sender and educate them about Letterville. Our goal here has always been to educate our Merchants on the value of using Letterville to put a face on their companies and join in the community. Over the years, we've seen several of our Merchants blend in as friends and neighbors. They know that we will think of them first when the time comes to make a purchase.
I'm sorry I can't help you out more with the Viagara and other personal spam you receive. I was actually relieved to learn I wasn't the only one getting those bigger willy e-mails. Misery loves company I guess.
Next time you get sign related e-mail, I challenge you to take a few minutes to let the sender know there are better ways to invest their advertising dollars. Tell them about Letterville and direct them to this link. They may even thank you down the line.
posted
Thanks Steve for your post. And I know that your post does not constitute an endorsement for my product.
The fact is, we did not buy any mailing list. We did all the hard work ourselves to develop a list that is targeted to legitimate contacts in the sign business. So, why e-mail? Well, of course it's because the cost is minimal and a great way to get the ball rolling...to build up some sales that will provide the funding to actually pay for advertising.
And that's probably what causes as much heartburn as anything...the Free nature of e-mail versus the cost of advertising in more traditional forums.
The Sign Blue Book has only been on the market for about 6 weeks and the response has been pretty good. I expect the response will be even better once we start the "real" advertising. I realize that that will add some legitimacy to our whole endeavor. But, we have to start somewhere.
Thanks, Steve and Barb for all the work you do to keep this forum going. I have tremendous respect for Letterhead.com and have been a part of it myself since about '97. (Some times more active than at others).
Oh, and by the way, out here in sunny Arizona, there are plenty of ne'er-do-wells who would like to see signs disappear from the landscape. There are always people who want to start banning things that they see as an inconvenience to them.
Please by a merchant account with this site. I and others would likely buy something that way ..
your spam is not welcome in my email box. Your SPAM is not advertizing it is an intrusion. You are using MY equipment, MY paid for bandwidth, and MY paid for Email account and MY time to have to delete it.
Advertizing is free speach and no one complains because Advertizing costs the advertizer and nothing to the target.
Spam costs the target (ME). You cost me money no matter how small the amount. You cost me time. Yes your right, it only takes a few seconds to read your add. But after gettin 87 SPAM emails just today since 5 pm it all adds up. And I have my full measure of it. And you can be sure i will never buy anything from spam. And, if you were really a good email partner why dotn you use a real email return address?
Sorry, I am totally against all email Spamming. My web Servre has been hijacked more than once by spammers. It cost me several hundred dollars in software alone to stop it.
Good luck and I pray that pending legislation comming into law does not hurt you much. As a marketer I know how hard it is to get going, but I think the much hated SPAM hurts more than helps.
-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5274 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
But what is the definition of spam. Isn't all email, as well as regular mail, unsolicited? I don't recall requesting all these bills?
Here's another example. Every morning Barb spends her first few hours e-mailing registered Letterville users celebrating their Birthday a card. Most say it makes their day, but from time to time, we get a nasty letter back, demanding we stop "spamming" them. Is there a chance we may be in the process of becoming grumpy old men and women?
At one time, we used to send out a Monthly Newsletter. It notified all registered users about the latest happenings in Letterville, promoted future Letterhead/PinHead Meets and so on. I thought it was a great way to help Letterville grow. We discontinued it after concerns it might be an intrusion, but I still think it is a good idea. What are your feelings?
-------------------- Steve Shortreed 144 Hill St., E. Fergus, Ontario Canada N1M 1G9 519-787-2673
I see that you've sent me a fourth solicitation BEFORE informing me of your removal...
Just one more, eh?
I'm sorry, but I NEVER hit the 'remove me' link to any spam mail I receive, as most people know that only sends the spammer a verification of that email address.
Like I said, I don't mind one time, we all have an interest in new sign software, but when I get them several times, it's just spam.
The reason i made an issue out of it was to let you know how we in the Letterville community feel about repeated , unwanted solicitations from someone who is using the privilege of membership in this site to promote their own business without paying the required merchant dues stated in the membership agreement when you registered.
Become a paid merchant, but don't use the email addresses you find there for your mailing list.
Spammers don't deserve a polite or discreet response.
posted
Steve when you register at a site you can/should expect to get email from it,i hardly think thats a big deal and i can't see where thats some type of problem..... i know a lotta forums give you the option of disabling email from admin or something like that so if its really that offensive to some give em that option. Send the newsletter,thats not an intrusion...the intrusion is when someone comes in,spiders/snags your email,mysteriously yet magically gets a fax and appears here all in the same day a few people mention this(imagine that luck),admits they made up the list themselves then pretty much tells everyone hey tuff sh** i'm promoting my biz if you don't like it delete it cuz i'm gonna keep doing it.....thats where the aggravation comes in.
-------------------- Gavin Chachere Plotter in the garage,New Orleans La.
"Sgts Shugart and Gordon again request permission to rope down to crash site two" Posts: 1223 | From: new orleans.la. | Registered: Mar 2000
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I got one email addy, & I got more then one bluebook spam, so Brian, either you pride in not duplicating emails is based on honest ignorance & you will take this feedback to heart & get control over your business marketing practices, or you are just saying whatever you think people want to hear & then doing whatever you damn-well please.
As for the effect of spam, listen up! I am a reasonable typical example of the market you are trying to reach, I don't own estimating software & I make up my prices based on my own knowledge & experience. Your first email was saved so I could look into it when I had more time.
When I got a second identical email at my (ONE & ONLY ADDRESS)I deleted both emails & any future interest what-so-ever in your company. So you lost me already. For good. But, when this busines fails, if you start a new one targeted at sign business owners, maybe you should listen to what we have to say here, instead of smugly deflecting it with your inaccurate & defensive explanations!
posted
OUCH BABY!....But, amen to you Doug and other residents who spoke out. I had to take the time to change my address last year because of the overwealming amount of spam I received every day It cost me customers, new cards, stationary and everything that is associated with it. Today, changing email is like changing your phone number. And we know how costly that can be.
I appreciate the blue book guy's rights, but here we are friends. Someone mentioned him becoming a merchant. Maybe he will. But, before I buy from anybody, I must respect them first. We are all passionate about our privacy. I never knew that using "remove me" would enlist more junk. Thanks for the education.
""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3487 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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I got the blue book thing too. I just delete it.
The main spam I've been getting is people (usually rich ones) from foreign countries telling me a sad story and they want me to help them transfer $25,000,000 through my bank account. Man I'm gonna be rich!
I get about 3 of these every day. Man I'm popular.
-------------------- Tony Broussard Graphic Details Digital Media Loreauville, LA Posts: 395 | From: Loreauville, LA | Registered: Jul 1999
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I don't know what your getting all worked up over...I get 20-30 emails every morning about dick enlargement, viagra etc etc, that's abit of a niusance but part of todays internet life.
Getting a few odd e-mails from suppliers etc is no bad thing, and if its rubbish then deleting is quicker than opening an envelope and throwing regular mail in the trash.
I only frequent this board and the uksignboards.com and get all sorts of US based sign stuff in the mail....no big deal, how many ads do we have to sift through everytime you read a trade magazine....that's life in a business world
posted
The difference? Well....how many of those viagra/bigger willy promoters do you get to debate with!!???
Brian's only getting the brunt of our frustration over all ALL the spam we recieve in our mailboxes everyday..... !!
Here is my response to his responce to my response.......
( I forwarded his FOURTH bluebook email to him)
quote: "Adrienne,
I don't know where you got four. My records indicate that you only were sent three. One on 4/27/03, One on 5/27/03, One on 6/2/03. You see, I am not an "indiscriminate spammer" that just sends out to the masses. I actually manage my list. Unless you have more than one e-mail address, then three is all I sent.
I could make a big deal about how you felt it necessary to post this most recent message on the Bull Board just to make another public statement that is incorrect. But this is all I will say about it.
I'm not out to make enemies. I'm actually a pretty nice guy just trying to promote a product that is very beneficial to alot of people in the sign industry. But, it is possible to get my dander up.
E-mailing is just a tool to get the ball rolling. Paid advertising is coming next. So, while the e-mails will dissappear, the name won't. You will still be exposed to it.
Realize this. There are many forms of marketing. You are not going to like them all. As a matter of fact, as a "target", you may not like many of them at all. That does not make them wrong, illegal or even unethical.
Rare is the business that has never had to market itself. I'm sure that you have had to market your business at one time or another. And as you have, I'm sure that some of your "targets" didn't like it too well, but from your standpoint, you probably felt like you were just doing what was necessary to promote your business.
To quote your website:
"GET NOTICED!!!! Bring in more customers, sell more merchandise... Isn't that what it's all about?" (By the way, you do nice work!)
I guess I just don't understand all the hubbub about a targeted e-mail that is NOT sent out indiscriminately to the masses. It's just an e-mail...a no pressure form of marketing that sure beats getting unsolicitied phone calls all day long and salesmen on your doorstep everyday. "Spam" is in the eye of the beholder. Ask 10 people what it is and you'll get 10 different answers. You may consider my e-mails to be spam and that's fine if you do but that doesn't make it so.
I suppose I've "spouted off" enough, but I do enjoy a spirited debate...and I do hope that you take it that way. Life is too short to get our britches in a bunch over something like this. Besides, if I stay up any later, I'll just get cranky.
It's not that I mind recieving the first one, I stated that in my post...I actually checked it out....but wasn't interested...it was after I recieved two more the next day.......
Yes, I have two email adresses...but you still sent me more than I care to read.
You see...if you were to become a paid merchant at Letterville......you would probably sell a lot more product, having earned the respect of those that spend their time and money there.
As for my advertising tactics....I walk into the businesses I want to target, ask to speak to the manager/owner in person, smile and shake their hand, introduce myself as the owner of my business and ask to show them some samples of what I can do for them.
I have never, nor will I ever send out solicitations by email...not only will that make me look bad but I assume most will just delete it without ever reading it.
I, however, DID read your first one, that's more than I can say for the Viagra emails!!
Have a great day
Adrienne
I wish Brian the best, but doubt that I will ever consider the Bluebook in the future.
posted
Here is my take on spammers vs. junk snail mail.
Spammers are doing it on MY dime.
When someone sends junk snail mail they are paying for printing, postage, etc. I merely pay for the match it takes to burn it as part of garbage (unopened) every week.
When someone sends spam, they are taking up space on my isp's server. As more spam gets sent out, more space on the server is needed, increasing my isp's costs. Know how they cover those additional costs? They increase MY rates.
You want to advertise to me, spend YOUR money on printing & postage to send me more fire starting materials, my address is clearly listed here. You want to get my attention as a potential buyer, make a phone call to letterville mayor & mrs. mayor and spend YOUR money on becoming a merchant here. You want to **** me off to where not only will I never buy from you but will also send complaints to your server and all the anti-spam organizations, go ahead and email me.
-------------------- Chris Welker Wildfire Signs Indiana, Pa Posts: 4254 | From: Indiana, PA | Registered: Mar 2001
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Here's a great idea for junk snail mail. Take the reply envelope, and put their offer,(crap) in it minus anything bearing your name, and send it back to them in their envelope on their dime! Now, that's cool!
""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3487 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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We got eggs and spam spam and eggs eggs spam and eggs spam eggs and spam spam spam and eggs spam spam and spam spam spam spam spam........ but I don't want any SPAM! I do sneak a fried spam samich once in awhile I agree with Kissy..... by the way Kissy are you collecting original comics of sign stuff?? send me an e-mail I'll return one from Clifford "Kippy Kiwi" Littlefield, one of my mentors.
-------------------- "No excuses!.... No regrets!..."
posted
If it cost a nickel to send an email we'd put all the spammers out of business (try spending 1,000,000 nickels at once for major spam - or about 30,000 in this industry) and we'd also save a lot of time by writing only important emails, and not forwarding junk. But it'd still be cheap enough that we could all afford it.
My vote is for a new, paid mail delivery network and the ability to filter out all mail that doesn't come through that network!
posted
Who was that that just posted? Mark Smith? Isn't he a PAID merchant here at letterville? Hmmm, what a novel idea, join a website that is run for & by your target market, support the site with money and advice, earn the respect and dare I say friendship of the people there and respect them enough to NOT spam them or try to use used car salesman's techniques to buy what you're peddling. My god, why has no one else ever thought of that???
-------------------- Chris Welker Wildfire Signs Indiana, Pa Posts: 4254 | From: Indiana, PA | Registered: Mar 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Rick Beisiegel: Here's a great idea for junk snail mail. Take the reply envelope, and put their offer,(crap) in it minus anything bearing your name, and send it back to them in their envelope on their dime! Now, that's cool!
I do that. Only I put everything back in the envelope (including stuff with my name) after writing a nasty note on it in red or orange marker. Usually along the lines of "Quit sending me this s&*(. "
-------------------- Chris Welker Wildfire Signs Indiana, Pa Posts: 4254 | From: Indiana, PA | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
i hate all these junk faxes. they cost me paper and ribbon. at least i can hit the delete key on the computer.
-------------------- Jimmy Chatham Chatham Signs 468 stark st Commerce, Ga 30529 Posts: 1766 | From: Commerce, GA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I have not found three mailings to be an inconvenience of signifigance. Daily or weekly on an ongoing basis would be different.
Whenever I'm about to purchase something I usually know what price range I'd spend. I found the asking price for this book to be far higher than my value thinking would pay. We all need help making the pricing quicker and staying competitive, without price fixing. Ever notice how the price of gas goes up a penny a day for several days before a holiday where folks travel? So it is with sign prices. Market changes alter prices in specific areas. The book suggests some kinda average.
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6721 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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quote:Originally posted by WB Hinkle: The fact is, we did not buy any mailing list. We did all the hard work ourselves to develop a list that is targeted to legitimate contacts in the sign business. So, why e-mail? Well, of course it's because the cost is minimal and a great way to get the ball rolling...to build up some sales that will provide the funding to actually pay for advertising.
And that's probably what causes as much heartburn as anything...the Free nature of e-mail versus the cost of advertising in more traditional forums.
It isn't free. You wasted how many hours developing your own spamming list? What is your hourly rate? If you honestly think the hours wasted was cheaper than actually paying for an ad in a trade magazine or here (either of which would give you a lot more attention than spam), I don't want to listen to you tell me what my work is worth.
-------------------- Chris Welker Wildfire Signs Indiana, Pa Posts: 4254 | From: Indiana, PA | Registered: Mar 2001
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I do sneak a fried spam samich once in awhile 
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