posted
How would you build and install this? I'm using 1/2" MDO for the 4'X 8' panel. This project is for a double-sided temporary sign (2 - 3 years) and does not need to be very high off the ground.
Thanks!
-------------------- Penny Baugh Lee Edmund Spyro Design Group
Spyro Graphics 3458 Main Street, East Fort Payne, AL 35968
posted
Right, well, they're relocating and will be installing a permanent sign then. I'm not planning on using "temporary" sign materials for the project, just thought it might be pertinent to know what the customer's expectation is.
-------------------- Penny Baugh Lee Edmund Spyro Design Group
Spyro Graphics 3458 Main Street, East Fort Payne, AL 35968
posted
Penny, the 1/2" MDO will warp in no time. I would use 1/2" for anything larger that 24x36. You may want to consider using Alumalite since the shape is not too curved. You can apply the trim on the curved surface by using a heat gun. As far as the posts, use 4x4 treated with 2x6 cut to fit on top, or better yet buy a couple of finials. To assemble the sign just buy four 90 degree brackets and screw into the corners of sign, then into posts. Of course use all rust proof hardware. It is as easy as pie!
-------------------- Kathy Joiner River Road Graphics 41628 River Road Ponchatoula, La.70454
Old enough to know better...Too young to resist. Posts: 1891 | From: Ponchatoula, LA | Registered: Nov 2000
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There are some companies that make ready-to-use post-and-rail systems from PVC-- i'd use one of them. You set 4x4 posts, then everything slips over that. Quick and easy.
Personally, I'd probably use a sheet of Alumacore or Dibond or similar -- lighter and easier to handle. Plus, when they're done with the sign, you might even be able to scavange the old sign panel and re-use it. You can't do that with a 3 year old piece of MDO. (well, you could, but it wouldn't be good for much).
-------------------- :: Scooter Marriner :: :: Coyote Signs :: :: Oakland, CA :: :: still a beginner :: :: Posts: 1356 | From: Oakland (and San Francisco) | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
The 1/2" MDO will warp? I've already started coating it out. So how soon is "no time"? And that leads me to wonder, what would you even use the 1/2" panels for?
-------------------- Penny Baugh Lee Edmund Spyro Design Group
Spyro Graphics 3458 Main Street, East Fort Payne, AL 35968
You wrote: "You can apply the trim on the curved surface by using a heat gun." Can you explain this further?
I'm wondering how to attach the half circle shape as a separate piece on the top. I know this is just basic carpentry stuff! Sorry! Do I need to use a flat metal plate that crosses the join or just use the trim piece to hold it on?
Alumacorr is the only thing I've used so far for a sign of this size. I'm just not sure how to cut it in the half-circle, or if I should even use it for that piece.
-------------------- Penny Baugh Lee Edmund Spyro Design Group
Spyro Graphics 3458 Main Street, East Fort Payne, AL 35968
posted
1/2 MDO is good for smaller signs....also a sign that your putting on a wall....and you can use it as long as you have all 4 sides attached to something more suportive. usually for a sign as per your layout 3/4" MDO is normally used.
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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I'll order the Alumacorr then. I don't know what I was thinking anyway with that 1/2" stuff! I guess since I've been using the 1/2" Alumacorr, I just wasn't thinking.
-------------------- Penny Baugh Lee Edmund Spyro Design Group
Spyro Graphics 3458 Main Street, East Fort Payne, AL 35968
posted
around here everyone uses 1/2" MDO for 4 X 8 signs. I usually do one sided & have my posts about 5 ft. apart. On two sided I would consider using 2 sheets 1/2", but to hang them between two posts 8' apart, then I would consider using 3/4" with some kind of brackets. I have also cut out a groove (dado?)to recess the panels into the post. I think this method would allow you to use the 1/2" 4x8 you are already prepping for this job. You could tell your client that this is your proposed solution for the "temporary" sign they requested, but offer them an up-charge to go with something like alumalight, & mention the possibility of them re-using that material after the three years to justify that up-charge.
posted
Penny, I am just learning all this carpentry stuff too It's fun! I am assuming Alumacorr is the same as alumalite. Aluminum with a corrogated plastic core? You can join by using metal dowel pins or you can purchase extrusion connections.
For the trim on the panel I was talking about edge cap which is a plastic strip of U channel in matching colors that you apply with caulk to the edges for a finish. You can install this around simple curves by heating it with a heat gun. The plastic will "give" enough when heated to conform to the shape of the sign. At the beginning of the arc that you show on your sketch, you may need to miter the edges. Be careful not to apply too much heat, and wear gloves.
Good luck, and enjoy yourself!
-------------------- Kathy Joiner River Road Graphics 41628 River Road Ponchatoula, La.70454
Old enough to know better...Too young to resist. Posts: 1891 | From: Ponchatoula, LA | Registered: Nov 2000
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posted
If the MDO is good quality, you wont have a problem with warpage, at least I dont, and I use it on 98 percent of my signs. The sign you are doing, I would use 4x4x8 posts, and put 22" in the ground, cemented even if it is temporary, although 2-3 years aint temporary to me. The design you are using would be perfect for the signbrackets advertised in signcraft for rectangular signs. They fit over the corner and have flanges on both sides. Ive used them a couple of times, and they are great. Otherwise, if using a 90 degree brackett, use only the heavier guage type. The lighter will bend too easy. You can also use small pieces of angle iron cut down to about three inches long. They are sturdy as heck, and paint them to match the sign and posts. Alumacor is nice stuff, but not good for this job. The alumawood or whitewood, which has a 1/2" piece of plywood in between 040 guage aluminum would be better. Hope it works out for you.
-------------------- Maker of fine signs and other creative stuff. Located at 109 N. Cumberland ave. Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-837-0242 Posts: 4172 | From: Ages-Brookside, Ky. Up the Holler... | Registered: Jul 1999
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We do a lot of temporary signs and we use only 5/8" MDO; sign quality. For the posts you want to use 4x4's; appearance grade treated. To attach the sign face to the posts use a 2x2 wood cleat behind the sign face. Normally we paint the cleats the same color as the sign face (along with the back of the sign).
We have not had a 5/8" one warp yet. They hold up for 4-5 years looking great. After about 5, it gets iffy.
Good luck
Daye
-------------------- Roday Signage 37224 Military Rd. S. Auburn, WA 98002 daye@roday.com Posts: 20 | From: Auburn, Washington | Registered: May 2003
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Make sure you get $1,500.00 for this temporary sign. Design, materials, installation. Its worth every bit of that if its going to be up for a couple of ten years.
-------------------- Bob Stephens Skywatch Signs Zephyrhills, FL
Another way to do a sign that lookes exactly like your sketch, is to frame the 1/2 plywood with 1"x4" pine boards. Cut them so they fit tightly around the edge of the plywood, and nail them together at the corners, with 2" finishing nails and a little Titebond glue (optional). Then add 1/4 round wood moulding around the inside edges on both sides. The ends of the moulding get mitered on 45 deg angles and then everything gets nailed and glued again.Then you can prime everything after it's made, paying attention to the seams and joints so they get sealed good.
This makes a pretty classic sign that was pretty commonplace back in the good old days.........You can simply nail it to two 4x4 posts, and your done.
-------------------- Jeff Ogden 8727 NE 68 Terr. Gainesville FL, 32609 Posts: 2138 | From: 8827 NE 68 Terr Gainesville Fl 32609 | Registered: Aug 2002
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Forgot to add...the little shape on top can be cut as 2 pieces of 1/2" MDO. On top of the sign nail a 2"x2" piece of wood, cut a couple of inches shorter than the top pieces. Then screw on the top pieces with 2" screws. 'Should hold it fine............
-------------------- Jeff Ogden 8727 NE 68 Terr. Gainesville FL, 32609 Posts: 2138 | From: 8827 NE 68 Terr Gainesville Fl 32609 | Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
We do stuff like that regularly with 1/2" MDO.
I'd get some sticks of 2x6 and rip them into 2x3's and run a dado and mitre the corners to frame the panel. I'd make the frame for the curved cap in three pieces with a joint at each end, and do this so that it's only 1 1/2 " thick. That way it isn't too steep a curve to put the dado in with a router. I'd mount the top section to the top board of the frame by screwing up, and then I'd assemble the lower frame. It's a good three hour job. Hope this makes sence to you.
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6730 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
If you're gonna use MDO then give it at least 3 coats of paint. Even though it doesn't have to be off the ground much, I would still make it at least 2 feet or more above the ground. That area immediately above the ground-line for a couple of feet is a high-moisture zone; what with dew & other humidity factors. Those could cause the MDO to delaminate at a faster rate.
-------------------- Bill Cosharek Bill Cosharek Signs N.Huntingdon,Pa
bcosharek@juno.com Posts: 703 | From: N.Huntingdon, Pa, USA | Registered: Dec 1999
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posted
Geez Penny, I'm no good with words - a picture is so much easier. I'd have spec'd this for a PVC or Dibond face, but you'll be ok with 1/2" MDO. I'd usually use 3/4" PVC for the frame stock too, but any old 1" nominal pine will work for temporary. This is the no fuss, no fancy tools way of getting it framed quickly. Just finish-nail all the parts together. You can use the lip of the outer cap piece for screwing to your uprights. Sorry I didn't show that in the picture, it's late and I'm sleepy.
SONGPAINTER Original Sign Music by Sign People NOW AVAILABLE on CD and the proceeds go to Letterville's favorite charity! Click Here for Sound Clips! Posts: 1974 | From: Orleans, MA, Cape Cod, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Letter first. For protection if it needs it, use some foam, old bed pad cut flat, or an old quilt. Don't use a fuzzy blanket if the letters are vinyl because the lint sometimes gets under the edges of any sharp corners and may cause peeling problems later.
-------------------- Kathy Joiner River Road Graphics 41628 River Road Ponchatoula, La.70454
Old enough to know better...Too young to resist. Posts: 1891 | From: Ponchatoula, LA | Registered: Nov 2000
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posted
I think Rick Sacks has done this before. Your drawing shows a frame around the sign. This will be perfect for a dado.
For protection during transportation against scraches use transfer tape. Its cheep, and will hold up till you get it to the location.
^^-in the heart of gold country... Richard Bustamante Nevada City, california www.signsinthepines.com
-------------------- Richard Bustamante Signs in the Pines www.signsinthepines.com Posts: 781 | From: Nevada City, California | Registered: Nov 1998
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I decided to go with the Alumacorr, but I also ordered a sheet of 3/4" MDO just to have on hand.
That thing weighs a TON!
I'll have to get a crane to lift it just to coat it out! Kathy, are you hoisting those 3/4" panels around? I can just imagine that sucker with a couple 6 X 6's and trim and the rest! I think I need to build some piano trucks!
-------------------- Penny Baugh Lee Edmund Spyro Design Group
Spyro Graphics 3458 Main Street, East Fort Payne, AL 35968
posted
I've gotten the 4X4 posts dado cut so that the 1/2" Alumacorr can just slip into them.
I'm still not really sure, though, about how to put the thing together. I'm trying to keep from screwing into the Alumacorr, thinking that the screws wouldn't bite into it and hold very well or that it might warp the face of it.
Here's where I've gotten to:
The top circle is 1/2" MDO. I'm planning to attach the the panel with (3) 2" wide flat metal plates and then further secure with a piece of trim that covers the metal plates. This trim piece would only be "toenailed" with the air nailer with finish nails into the 4X4's.
After that, I'm not sure what to do to hold the whole thing together until it's put into the ground! Or if my plan is going to secure the top circle piece on.
Also, every treated 4X4 I found when I went shopping seemed damp. Is that the way the treated stuff seems? I wanted to prime with Kilz and then paint with latex, but I'm worried about trapping moisture under the paint.
-------------------- Penny Baugh Lee Edmund Spyro Design Group
Spyro Graphics 3458 Main Street, East Fort Payne, AL 35968
posted
O.K. I've figured it out. I guess I just needed to think out loud. I'm making a mountain out of a molehill here.
I just need to frame it out with split 2X4's and attach them to the 4X4's. And then use a 1X4 as a top plate that's notched out over the half circle a bit:
-------------------- Penny Baugh Lee Edmund Spyro Design Group
Spyro Graphics 3458 Main Street, East Fort Payne, AL 35968
I'm gonna be a dork here and ask what Alumacore and Dibond look like/built like? Average cost for a 4x8? Do you prime/seal edges?
Sorry for the dumb questions but I have only used MDO and if there is something lighter that I can put between 2- 4x4 posts then, I want it.
Rookies...sheesh!
Thanks All!
[ June 13, 2003, 08:16 PM: Message edited by: John Cordova ]
-------------------- John Cordova Gitano Design Studio Albuquerque, NM Posts: 268 | From: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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well if ya have already started to coat your mdo 1/2 heres what i would do ..
run some backers you would glue and screw three equal set apart stringers on the back of the sign . run them three inches past your 4 x 8 so your net length on the 2 x 6 would be 102 inches . you will have to get 2 x6x 10 . u could use tx4x10 too if ya wanted or angle steel works well too. They then become the adhering points to your post . if you measure and put them on correctly they will fit inside the 4 x 4 like melted butter.
now on your 4 x 4 i would in plastic five gallon buckets mix and set your post up first leave the handle on so when you dismantle you can easily retrieve the post to use again if you need to or to relocate. when ya did your hole they can be adjust for plum and distance really quickly with out runin whalers and waitin to set up. ..unless ya like drinkin beer while your waitin. premark yoour level line at the base of the post so ya can get them in right the first time . i use eight and ten foot levels like they were my arms. then the pre drill holes through the back of your stringers just screw them into the post and your done. dont nail screw. i can send ya a drawin if it would help ya .
-------------------- sam kinnear stick um up signs redmond wa Posts: 93 | From: redmond wa | Registered: Jun 2003
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Hi Penny, I've done a couple recently using Alumilite (Alumacore) and 4x4 posts. It worked real well and you can easily put the sign together on site without having to transport it in one piece. Put it all together at the shop, remove the 6 lag bolts, deliver and it just slips back together with 6 lag bolts.
hope the picture works...
Tony
-------------------- Ace Graphics & Printing Camdenton, MO. USA
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Do I need to use a flat metal plate that crosses the join or just use the trim piece to hold it on? 
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It's fun! I am assuming Alumacorr is the same as alumalite. Aluminum with a corrogated plastic core? You can join by using metal dowel pins or you can purchase extrusion connections.
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That thing weighs a TON! 
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