-------------------- Pierre St.Marie Stmariegraphics Kalispell,Mt www.stmariegraphics.com ------------------ Plan on knowing everything before I die and time's running out! Posts: 4223 | From: Kalispell,Mt 59903 | Registered: Mar 2000
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I feel an undercurrent that the surface was not prepped correctly. If that was true, Avery would not have stood behind it. According to Tim Doyle, it is a common problem. It would not stick face to face with the adhesive. With all due respect, Thats NOT A PREP PROBLEM. I have as much or more experience in this field as most of the factory reps.
""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3489 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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Rick, Did you ever figure out which product it was?
From what I have discovered about Avery's reflective lately, that is the most important question since the application procedure is very restrictive for some of them.
[ May 29, 2003, 04:18 AM: Message edited by: Jim Pooler ]
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I have also wondered about the shelf life issue. Any items that have a shelf life, be it batteries, glue, pinter cartridges, or even beer have the born-on date or the shelf life listed. The born-on date should be imprinted on the backing of the film. considering we can have several hundred dollars tied up in a project, it would be nice to know our materials have not expired. Seems there are plenty of other things that can go wrong without throwing one in there unknowingly.
The label on the boxes that the Avery comes in, if you buy at least 10 yds, has the label that has a lot# on it. The first number is the year and the first letter is the month, ie A for Jan, B for Feb. That is the date that the vinyl was laminated. The other number is a julian date, ie 2002134, which is the 134th day of 2002. That is the date the vinyl was cut, punched or rolled and put in boxes.
I looked at some of the boxes of Avery I just got from my supplier and noticed a 10 yd roll I just purchased a couple of weeks ago was laminated in Feb, 2002 and cut, punched, and boxed on May 23, 2002. Going by these dates and using the latest date means my product expired one week after I bought it. Going by the lamination date, it expried 4 months BEFORE I bought it.
I would sure like to know if the one year shelf life starts when the product is laminated or not. That would seem to be the most appropriate date. If so, I sure wont be stocking much vinyl anymore.
Looks like I need some feedback from Tim also.
[ May 29, 2003, 04:17 AM: Message edited by: Jim Pooler ]
Unfortunatly, we used all but 8" of the roll, so it was thrown away 3 months ago. As far as I can tell, it is Place Right repositionable adhesive which has an install proceedure all its own. You don't get a copy of that unless you buy a 50yd roll
""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3489 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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On the shelf life issue, when I called the manufacturers of the various vinyls, if I was told one year on the shelf, it was two years from date of manufacture. They have a year in there to cover transportation, storage, etc.
-------------------- David Harding A Sign of Excellence Carrollton, TX Posts: 5092 | From: Carrollton, TX, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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My comments regarding "preping" are meant as a "concern/side note" and NOT a dismisal of any adhesive or film inadequaecies in regard to application failures.
If the adhesive is defective or not agressive enough to gain bond, then all the preping in the world won't eleminate the problem, I agree !
I just think sometimes a failure to bond gets blamed on the wrong area, and not enough is understood about the importance of what is acceptable preping methods and products.
Roger
-------------------- Roger Bailey Rapid Tac Incorporated 186 Combs Dr. Merlin Oregon 97532 Posts: 3020 | From: Merlin Oregon | Registered: Dec 1998
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""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3489 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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"Amen"?? Lets not be praying to Roger just yet. He still has a ways to go before achieving the status of Hawiian God!
heh...................
k31
-------------------- Pierre St.Marie Stmariegraphics Kalispell,Mt www.stmariegraphics.com ------------------ Plan on knowing everything before I die and time's running out! Posts: 4223 | From: Kalispell,Mt 59903 | Registered: Mar 2000
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Of course, David. As is befitting a Lost Prairie God. (In all humbleness, of course.)
k31
-------------------- Pierre St.Marie Stmariegraphics Kalispell,Mt www.stmariegraphics.com ------------------ Plan on knowing everything before I die and time's running out! Posts: 4223 | From: Kalispell,Mt 59903 | Registered: Mar 2000
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I just spoke on the phone with Tim Doyle at Avery. They are going to take care of the problem I had and make me happy. I appreciate it greatly when a manufacturer stands behind their product and makes it right. Kudos to Tim and Avery.
-------------------- David Harding A Sign of Excellence Carrollton, TX Posts: 5092 | From: Carrollton, TX, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Please forgive me for adding to this thread but I just would like your comments since it seems from reading above that several have expressed concern over the lost $$ involved in a job's vinyl going south.
When you do have problems with vinyl and the company "makes it right", just what do you call making it right. A replacement roll,.....?????
What has been your experience?
I had several rolls of avery that were termed "bad" that resulted in four truck jobs and three door/window jobs kicking back on me. It was costly in terms of re-doing the job with new vinyl and costly in terms of "word of mouth".
My labor and vinyl costs came in at $1900.00 .
I rec'd credit at a local supplier for three rolls of vinyl equating to about $225.
$225 versus $1900 (and the "word of mouth")
Should I be just tickled pink over that or a little dissapointed?
""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3489 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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I don't understand how you would lose credibility if you stand by your work and fix the job. I understand losing the labor money, but it would seem like you would actually gain some credibility by fixing the problem at no cost to the customer. If I was the customer I would say to myself "I can count on that guy standing behind his work if something goes wrong.
I have a friend would had her classic 74 Nova painted and less than 6 months later the car looked like crap. The paint had failed. The painter admitted as much and offered to repaint it and not charge for the material but would have to charge for the labor since it wasn't his fault the paint failed. She never went back and actually never got her car re-painted by anyone. I would say that would be losing credibility.
Just my thought.
[ May 30, 2003, 08:09 PM: Message edited by: Jim Pooler ]
""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3489 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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