posted
I know what most of them do wrong, but quite a few are successful, in what ways do they run their business different than a traditional signpainter/commercial shop? What can we learn from them?
-------------------- Matthew Broadus Matthew Broadus Advertising Jacksonville, Fl. mattbroa@alltel.net Posts: 55 | From: Jacksonville, Florida, U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
It appears that they have the opportunity to do some things right that an individual shop may not be able to do. 1. Professional buyers negociate discounts based on volume buying. 2. They maintain a inventory which will allow them to perform most work in their targeted market without having to make an individual material order. 3. They have name recognition and make the most of it. 4. They are located in high traffic areas. 5. They perform a large variety of jobs. 6. They sub-contract to outside venders. 7. They maintain Quality Control and Processes 8. They hire skills based on job need. Maybe 1 or 2 other things that I may not be able to spot readily.
posted
Several years ago, Rich Stebbing ended his shop and went into a partnership and started one of those franchise shops. He had manuals with sections on promotions and sales training and was out attending lots of civic minded business meetings and had telephone assistance and legal advice and buying groups, etc. Perhaps Rich can appear here and fill in some details.
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6842 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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• Provide training for employees at various job functions.
• Test new materials
• Test market new products, production methods and promotions
• Provide a sizeable group for sharing information and resources
• Require somewhat consistent pricing and product lines from store to store
• Screen franchisees for financial strength
The above comments primarily apply to FastSigns where I have some insight due to knowing an owner of a store who is open with information about what she hears.
The average annual sales for a FastSigns franchise is currently between $500,000 and $1,000,000 per year. They typically pay a royalty to FastSigns of 6% to 8% of sales depending on their market location.
-------------------- Fred Weiss Allied Computer Graphics, Inc. 4620 Lake Worth Road Lake Worth, FL 33463 561 649-6300 allcompu@allcompu.com Posts: 427 | From: Lake Worth, Florida | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
Many of us 'older' sign people got into this trade not so much for the money, but because it was fun and you could make a living at it. But, over time, PROGRESS and TECHNOLOGY slithered into our craft, along with less talented psuedo-artistic types, and made our 'craft' a 'business opportunity'. Now with the franchise shops, the SIGN business has become more of a 7-11....MacDonalds.....WalMart type of retail outlet. I call it "SIGNS BY THE POUND"! Our "fun" thing has become a "business" thing. Cost and pricing factors have taken over, and the franchise shops shine in this area. It's not so much a question of QUALITY as it is of PRICE!
posted
Bob, that is a common condition in many businesses. The quest for the cheapest price has lead to cataloge buying and internet auctions. Where you can buy from somebody you don't know and a qualitiy you can see, just for the instatnt gratification of saying "I got the cheapest price." They don't mention how many times they buy 2 lbs of crap in a 1 lb sack.
quote: the SIGN business has become more of a 7-11....MacDonalds.....WalMart type of retail outlet.
yah.. I agree...but sadly every business is like that now. I'm one of the younger Sign guys...and i envy that you were of and elite breed, and had a time when you enjoyed your work and made decent living. I honestly wish that i could have been apart of that. but i can't. I'de like to hand paint signs, but no one really wants to pay for that.....not enough for me to bother honning my skills.. so i'm a vinyl guy, i try to make the best layouts possible... and No-one cares.. everyone just wants it made cheap.... they don't see value in creativity... it seems only creative people see it's value and are willing to pay for it...... so it's kinda a catch 22.
So I'm struggling, trying to ONLY make nice looking signage, while the ass who just cuts out letters, and sicks em on, is making more money than me, because his magnetic is $70.00 and mine are $90.00...and people ask why i'm so expensive...
sorry.... i'm ranting now.. anyhow.. i wish i had experienced the good old days...when not everyone and there cousin had a "letter Cutter"
-------------------- Chad harrington Chadvertising Halifax, Nova Scotia Posts: 52 | From: Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I was a two year employee at "Mcsign". I would say that their production orientation was very efficient. Particularly dull but efficient. In assembly line fashion, there are sales people at the front desk they take orders, the orders are placed on a wall that is a calender for the week. The graphic artist takes the orders and makes proofs, the proofs go back to sales, are reviewed by the customer, changes are made and then the order is sent to production. The artist cuts or prints the job respectively, sends it outside to be weeded masked and stuck !
Very efficient.
Steve
-------------------- Steve Aycock Designs 3489 Oswald St. Johns Island, SC zaor@warpdriveonline.com Posts: 124 | From: Charleston, SC | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
i think the answer your lookin for is the fact that as a franchise.....your equipment(plotter,printer,softwear etc)are more readily available because of the "leasing of the equipment" and as a franchise to get these leases is easy. also most francise stores are not run outa an empty wallet!!!!!! most of the place are owned by someone with MONEY....THAT IS WORKING CAPITOL!!!!!! with money in the bank, you can do a lot of things us one man shops cant do! so a franchise has a bad month...no big deal, all the bills still get paid. i have a bad month...and i have to pay a credit card ...with another credit card.......yea if i had an open option on the equipment i can lease, plenty of working capitol(money just sittin there)i can be one of these $500-100,000 a year shops.also outa that $500,000 lets say...how much is profit? 10%? 20% maybe? i dont do that amount a year, but my profit margin is closer to 50-60% and i dont need all the paperwork and headaches and chaos that any shop doing that kinda money would create. the question is "do i really want to go there?"
[ May 22, 2003, 02:10 PM: Message edited by: old paint ]
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I find it hard to believe that Fast Signs franchises average a half million to a million in sales a year.
But if above statement is true, I would gladly pay that commission to do that.
And finally, the owners are probably a lot more open to ideas to improve and generate business, unlike some here who think they could do as well, if only they had the financing and really wanted to do it.
We would do well to emulate much of what franchise businesses do better and not so quick to sit and feel superior from our our poorly managed businesses.
-------------------- Wright Signs Wyandotte, Michigan Posts: 2787 | From: Wyandotte, MI USA | Registered: Jan 1999
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posted
What you all are saying has much truth to it, I should know, I was a partner in the first Fast Signs in Canada. I've been to Dallas twice and to San Antonio for annual Conventions, and they are a slick, well organized, and Educated group of people. And Sales can be as high as a million a year, but the average is around $500,000 a year, , but profit, well that's another matter.
-------------------- "Keep Positive"
SIGNS1st. Neil Butler Paradise, NF Posts: 6277 | From: St. John's NF Canada | Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
While I was living in smallville Washington (Olympia-Lacey) county population of less than 300,000 with about 6,000 business and 40 established sign companies .....
I watched my FastSigns friend build a store from scratch to $30,000 plus a month following the franchise plans. She asked to buy another franchise for the west side of town and was turned down because the market wouldn't support enough volume for a second store.
It's stuff like that that is at the root of my respect for FastSigns as a franchisor.
She sold the store and bought an existing one in Portland OR where she is enjoying a sales volume near the high end of the range I mentioned. The work that comes out of her store often involves spending more for the acquisition of stock photography than most of us average for the selling price for a sign.
I love sign making but I love it even more when I make exceptional money doing it.
-------------------- Fred Weiss Allied Computer Graphics, Inc. 4620 Lake Worth Road Lake Worth, FL 33463 561 649-6300 allcompu@allcompu.com Posts: 427 | From: Lake Worth, Florida | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
I agree 100% with what Bob Burns says. The groups of old signies just don't get together and have a beer anymore.
-------------------- Drane Signs Sunshine Coast Nambour, Qld. dranesigns@bigpond.com Downunder "To err is human, but to really foul things up requires a computer" Posts: 965 | From: Nambour, Qld. Australia | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Positive marketing characteristics of franchise shops:
They are neat and clean and have good curb appeal. The shop truck is parked in the back. You don't walk in thru a roll up door into a fabrication shop.
They are located in high traffic areas, usually with good parking. You don't have to drive around in a light manufacturing area to find their door at the back of the building.
The person who takes your order will be dressed neat and clean, not painting duds.
Their is an attractive display of his "stock in trade" products with helpful tools such as letter size and font displays.
They answer their phones and cover their counter during posted business hours. You don't get a machine from which the call may or may not be answered. You don't find a sign on the door that says "back in 15 minutes".
For their "stock in trade" quickie signs they have a systematic pricing system, in a computer, which gives the impression that all buyers are getting the same(fair)price. "Everybody knows" computers price accurately. You don't get a fellow who scratches his chin and pulls a number out of his head. How much did this person add for your Mercedes out front?
For their "Stock in trade" quickie signs, they make a definite deadline promise and they keep it.
Except for large accounts with good established credit, they get a deposit without fail. They get the balance on pickup without fail.
They take checks and all major credit cards including American Express.
They have professionally made four color mailers that go out on a regular basis. They send out thank you cards after all significant orders.
They have special deals for high volume customers who require no selling effort after the initial sale.
They join the Chamber of Commerce and actively network within their community.
They give all non-profits a small uniform discount.
You don't have to be a franchise or be in a high traffic location to be successful.
You can decide for yourself which others are key to all successful sign companies. Vic G
-------------------- Victor Georgiou Danville, CA , USA Posts: 1746 | From: Danville, CA , USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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posted
It's the marketing machine and the business plan.
The franchises have set goals, all laid out in front of them as well as a plan on how to get there. I doubt many of the one or two man shops represented here have that kinda deal setup, but I know a few people here, like myself, *do* have it in place.
They also have a marketing plan, which does not always mean throwing money into a situation and hoping that some sales come as a result. There's always ways to get what you need without money.. like trading signage for air time on a popular radio station.. or just getting off your butt and being in an environment that has potential clientele... you know, somewhere that *doesn't* involve spending all your time in letterville.
They also know exactly where all their money is tied up. You gotta know exactly how much you have going out, and how much you have coming in. This shows you precisely if what you are doing is working for you or if it's a drain.
Of course, business is business. A business by any name that's run by a poor businessman is sure to fail, it doesn't matter what type of business it is...
...and franchises are not the reason it's getting tougher to make a living in the sign trade. Never once in my training and schooling did I ever see a rulebook that said you must continue doing business the same way for 15... 20.. 30 years. Times change, you can either lead, follow, or get out of the way.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
got a call today from a guy with a vegtable stand...he want to trade veggies for a couple signs.....told him i would.....that aint in the francise manual is it?
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
The number one most important thing they do right is "They get the money"...out of all the posts here as best I could tell Victor was the only one that mentioned that fact.
It's a sure fire fact...if you getthe money when the job is done you will never have a cash flow problem.
Success is usually followed by good cash flow and capable management...train the customer to pay when the work is finished and quit carrying them.
It has always been the answer.
"Werks fer me it'll werk fer you"
-------------------- "Werks fer me...it'll werk fer you"
posted
I visit lots of sign shops in my travels... mostly to purchase some vinyl lettering for a sign project I have under way. I don't require enough vinyl to nearly justify buying a plotter.
I sure wouldn't bash the franchises, any more than I would discredit any other type sign shop. I see good & bad in every category, but I've seen more poorly run sign shops in the independent category by far.
That said, I've also seen far superior work come out of the independents, but not all to be sure.
Rather than bash the franchises, I think there is much to be learn from them. Most of it isn't rocket science either, but rather sound business practices which combined with our design skills could put many here in a class which few franchises could ever match!
I keep my eyes open in every shop I am privileged to visit. Much of my education in the field of signs (except for hands-on experience & what I read in books) has come from these visits.
My education continues daily.
-dan
[ May 23, 2003, 02:42 AM: Message edited by: Dan Sawatzky ]
-------------------- Dan Sawatzky Imagination Corporation Yarrow, British Columbia dan@imaginationcorporation.com http://www.imaginationcorporation.com
Being a grampa is one of the the most wonderful things in the world!!! Posts: 8771 | From: Yarrow, B.C. Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Like many of you have stated, the franchises are very organized and business oriented. When I checked into the purchase of a franchise, just for kicks, I was surprised to find their criteria leaning toward business experience and money verses talent. In fact, you needed to have over $300,000 in personal assets before they would even consider you as a franchise owner. That doesn’t even include the cost of purchasing the franchise.
I have to say this site is pretty awesome. With all of the talent, intelligence, and business savvy collected in one place it helps nebies like me. it would be even more powerful if as a group a board or consortium was formed to create what many franchises have, business plan templates, financing, purchasing power, health benefits, etc. A group can accomplish far more than a individual.
This site has been a great learning experience for me as well. I posted a request for information relating to business plans for the sign industry. There were some very helpful comments and follow up emails. However, I was a bit surprised this site didn’t have sample business plans relating to specifically to the sign industry. A link to the SBA just won’t do.
Thank for you wealth of information. It’s great.
-------------------- Carl Cummings Van Go Signs Longview, WA carl@vangosigns.com Posts: 3 | From: Washington | Registered: May 2003
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posted
Carl, That is the problem. The founders of the Letterhead movement NEVER WANTED LETTERHEADS TO BE AN ORGANIZED ENTITY.
Thus, they shot themselves in the foot! By being organized, they could have helped many who are struggling in the sign industry.
But, they were artists, not businessmen. Everyone has followed their wishes not to organize.
What a disaster they created for themselves. They could have had a well developed international organization by now and instead threw it all away. They would have all been sitting at the top of that organization collecting dues, providing marketing materials, insurance, and so on.
posted
Hi, Davey!! I listened to your CD in the studio again this morning at 4am. I couldn't sleep again. I really do like it. We have a franchise shop in town too. I went in there once and it was SO clean and neat I was embarrassed for us! Our studio is a mad jumble of everything in progress. Dad and Lat seem to know where everything is so I guess its ok, but that Signs Now(?) place was super clean! I think they just do icky stickies so its easier to keep everything neat. Dad is talking about a bigger building so maybe Liz and I could have a really clean separate front end and leave Lat and Dad to do the jumbling in the back.
posted
If Letterheads had organized it would have fallen by the roadside long ago...The "spirit" of the Letterhead movement and the quest for that "spirit" is what makes it survive...
Let us suppose it were organized...In my opinion... people and sign shops that have nothing to do with being Letterheads would swarm to be associated with the movement and promote themselves to their clients based on the talents of others...in no time at all the ranks of talented people that come here and go to the meets would be diluted with the ranks of opportunists that either have no right...nor desire to be Letterheads but are perfectly comfortable with reaping the benefit of the Letterhead name.
I agree this type of shop would fail...due to the fact it couldn't back up its reputation as a Letterhead...so whats the big deal?
The big deal is everytime one of them fails to deliver...the Letterhead reputation is sullied.
Be a Letterhead and be proud of it...take it to the level you are most comfortable with...but forget trying to "fix something that aint broke".
Organizing Letterheads is a lousy idea...always has been...always will be.
-------------------- "Werks fer me...it'll werk fer you"
posted
Dave, I guess if the Letterhead organizers shot themselves in the foot, they have been limping along all this time and have produced one of the most successful non-organizations in the world.
In my opinion (and that is just what it is - an opinion) what has made this movement so successful (and it HAS BEEN a success) is avoiding just what you have suggested.
The Letterhead movement was never intended to be a monetary based organization. That is why the word "spirit" is used so often.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with making money and being skilled at the "business" of doing business, it is just not what the Letterheads is based upon.
No one can tell you whether you are a Letterhead or not, nor even what it takes to meet the requirements. If there were a board, president, and all the other trapings of an organized organization it would mean that we would have to adjust to some standard set by them. You can't legislate good taste.
I guess everyone has a different definition of what a Letterhead is. Possibly that is the way it was intended.
Why is collecting dues such as lofty aspiration? Those guys are certainly sitting at the top right now....and collecting just what those who serve others deserve.
Maybe someone has shot themself in the foot, but I don't think it was the seven guys that organized us.
[ May 26, 2003, 11:36 AM: Message edited by: Raymond Chapman ]
-------------------- Chapman Sign Studio Temple, Texas chapmanstudio@sbcglobal.net Posts: 6306 | From: Temple, Texas, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Letterheads could have been organized as a "not for profit" organization. I'm sure glad all the other "not for profit" groups didn't take this selfish attitude.
Seems like a lot of "not-for-profit" groups have gotten away from their original intents and have had their leadership dipping deep into the coffers to satisfy their own greedy needs. Not all of them, mind you, but enough to make my point.
Money and power do crazy things to people. Greed and the lusting after the all-mighty dollar has ruined many careers, families, marriages, etc. The old adage, "The love of money is the root of evil" rings true.
Look at Enron, Adelphia, all the banking failures of the 80's, and the endless string of corporate raidings. Look at all the pension funds that got raided in the 70's before the Government put a stop to it. Look at the corruption that ran rampantly through the American Red Cross.
I am glad that "Letterheads" never united into such a group. Someone, somewhere would have mucked it up.
-------------------- Bruce Bowers
DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter Posts: 6468 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
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posted
dunno what they do right......lots of them are for sale around here.....can't seem to give them away. yep they must be really doing it right.
Posts: 3729 | From: Seattle | Registered: Sep 1999
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posted
Shot themselves in the foot!!!?? After twenty five years, there are at least two dedicated websites, meets all over the place, international participation, and most of all, continued sharing and goodwill. What a dismal failure. Makes you wonder why they bothered.
Now if you talk about how some folks continually step on their own dicks.....oh, gee, I guess I'm not supposed to mention that.
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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they do not confuse 'the craft' with making money.
Some people do this work for the artistic outlet or freedom. Some do it for the bucks. Speedyfastsignaramalamadingdong's do it for the bucks. They dont take it home with them, they dont work after 5 or weekends, and they dont sweat anything that doesnt have to do with making money.
Do they give a shiat how you do faux finishes? No. Are they interested in a machine that can double output while cutting down on skilled workforce? Most definitely!
I'd say 99% of 'them' got into the business because the salesman or sales package sold them on the idea versus the t-shirt kiosks, car detailing, pretzel stand, vending machine salesman.
The 1% that got into because of 'the craft' are the ones you have to worry about. They posess the understanding of 'the craft' PLUS the business plan and branding they paid through the bunghole for.
Will a Speedyfastsignaramalamadingdong ever be competition for Sawatsky, Lavelle or Gary Anderson? no. Will they for you? That's your call.
They way I figure it, you can gauge a customer by who's in their CD player. If its Stevie Ray Vaughan, David Alan Coe or Susan Tedeschi, chances are they will pay the price for quality work.
If they are listening to Brittany Spears, Shania Twain or Tim McGraw, the best thing you can do is point them to the nearest Speedyfastsigns-r-us. They cant eat solid foods, let alone differentiate 'craft' from 'crap'.
"The good thing about pop music, is it isnt popular long" - Col. Bruce Hampton
posted
I don't think organizing is the best for the Letterhead movement but I have some comments on who qualifies as a Letterhead. The term is so loosley applied and in another one sense elitist. Does a quickie stickie clipart vinyl guy call himself a Letterhead? Or does one have to slave for an original Letterhead guru handpainting letters till one day a golden cup inscribed "Letterhead" is handed to you from the heavens? What I get is that one who is willing to learn, and one willing to teach the craft makes a letterhead. In the spirit of sharing...you can't really organize that into a real organization, but maybe in the spirit of Letterhead, an organization of various sign crafts could be loosley organized for those with no skills to either learn from or subcontract from, all the while promoting the craft as a viable business and artform. Not a part of letterhead, but an enhancement. Many here have various skills that would do well in a loosley based organization. letterhead should be as it is. I belong to 5 organizations (SEGD, AIGA, ISA, TDC, GAG) myself, and I think most here have either never heard of them, or don't belong to them, it's an education for me to belong to them and support my craft. It some way this craft shoUld be supported or it may, it time pass on like many other crafts have.
Rick
-------------------- Rick Chavez Hemet, CA Posts: 1540 | From: Hemet,CA U.S.A. | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
The other thing about franchises is they have a set pricelist. You want X..you pay X. People don't go into retail stores and pick up a can of tomato soup and ask the manager to lower the price. I think the same holds true for the McSign biz. Their prices are printed on a sheet. You pick out what you want and pay what the sheet says you have to pay. It's that simple. No bargining.
-------------------- Mark Rogan The Great Barrington Sign Company 2 Stilwell Street, Great Barrington, MA 01230 mark@gbsignco.com
"Sometimes I think my head is so big because it is so full of fonts" Posts: 332 | From: Great Barrington, MA | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
Again, "being a letterhead" is all about your personal self-image; it's not and never has been a marketing tool. I have yet to meet a client - even those who are interested in who I am and what I'm about, as opposed to just focusing on their given project - who have ever asked, wondered or cared about whether sign makers have any sort of trade organization, trade magazine, whatever. You're either qualified to solve their problem - or you're not.
Those of us that call ourselves Letterheads are not interested in what "qualifies" anyone else to call themselves a Letterhead. The adage that I heard from Mark Oatis years ago went something like "If you want to call yourself a Letterhead, by all means do so. If you want to have a Letterhead Meet, have one. If you want a certificate proclaiming that you are in fact a Letterhead...MAKE ONE.
Their are more than enough clubs, gangs, fraternities, associations, lodges, and mutual azskissing societies in the world, with all their attendant rules, bylaws, codes, fees, secret handshakes, funny hats, and other assorted nonsense and buggery. Find one that suits your fancy; take advantage of their buying power for health insurance or whatever. That is not now, nor was it ever, the intent of the Letterhead movement. This is a means of sharing knowledge of a craft... nothing less, and thankfully, nothing more.
I'm not a joiner. I have no patience with arbitrary memberships and rules, or the small minds and diaper-clad dingbats that seem to require them in order to feel like they "belong" to something... the day this becomes an "organization" is the day it kisses my hairy butt goodbye.
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
bottom line is still MONEY!!! you cant buy a franchize ......with a credit card!! the franchise gets its money UP FRONT, before your sign goes up. most of us one person shops were in business when there were no computers, plotters and such. as for us being poor business people, yea we are sorta, if you use the franchise store as the example of how to run a business.....but most of us do well at what we do, and been doin it longer then any franchise.
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I like Mark Oatis' description of a letterhead, though I don't think he is anti-organization, after all,he is a member of SEGD. I think "organizing" in a sense that as a group there is maybe a vendor list for sign shops lacking the skills most here posess, or for designers, or specifiers to contract or sub-contract the good money making work was what I was talking about. Or to put it this wa, the day any of us stop making a living at this is the day you kiss your own butt goodbye.
Rick
-------------------- Rick Chavez Hemet, CA Posts: 1540 | From: Hemet,CA U.S.A. | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
The original question referred to franchises, and I think where this is alluding is that if we somehow organize we can become a buying group. This needs nothing to do with being a letterhead, it only needs to get us volume discounts and a louder voice to the suppliers and manufacturers.
[ May 31, 2003, 09:40 AM: Message edited by: Rick Sacks ]
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6842 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I just got back from the SEGD conference and Expo in Las Vagas, there were only a few "artisans" there. They did stone carving demonstrations, showing faux finishes and such. All the artisans were small mom and pops with very uniques skills, and all of them went around to different sin companies and designers showing of thier wares, well if they united themselves into one list, or brochure or showed themselves as a viable, organized comodity, they may have a biigger presence. Me as a "designer" I am fascinated with these unique skills, I shy away from specifying some of them because of a lack of knowlege. A loosley based organization can help educate designers and others of how to design for it, and how to specyfy it, and locate those artisans wioth those skills instead of just surfing the web or wasting time asking around. I see the great work Mike Myers and Mark Fair are doing, and they would do great doing themes restaurant signage, like "Claim Jumper" or Gorden Biersh, or any themed restaurant that uses those signs they do so well, just a thought, there is the ASID, AIA, restaurant design and management organizations that a "Sign Artisan Organization" can market too, so if one person does not fit the skill set needed anther might. Just thinkin out loud. Rick
-------------------- Rick Chavez Hemet, CA Posts: 1540 | From: Hemet,CA U.S.A. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Thanks for all the replies, the reason I posed the question is I'm thinking of opening a second location in a nearby town loosely modeled after the franchise shops. I want to take what they do well, which seems to be present a professional image foremost, and copy it. I would have a "showroom" located on a busy street in a slightly older stip center where someone can walk in and buy a sign, a banner, some stock signs, magnetics, cheap cor-o signs, I would sub out digital printing, and any number of other related items. I want to train a young computer guru to run this shop and bang out "letters by the pound". If anyone comes in inquiring about sandblasted or carved signs, then I can produce them in my shop and deliver them to the "showroom" for pick-up. I am playing with the start up numbers but a new computer, plotter, scanner, a nice work table some real "office" type furniture is not going to be a hell of a lot of money. I have a friend who just started working for a franchise shop and the guy that owns the place is an early retiree with 2 years experience making signs (that makes him an apprentice), he has 3 people working for him! I think that we tradtional sign painters and one man shop vinyl gurus are missing the boat by not applying our craft skills to a more aggressive business plan (I know it's not for everyone). As a third generation sign painter, I've had about enough of the "CRAFT", Show me the money!!! I just don't want to "come to" in a nursing home one day screaming "I coulda made more money, if I'd only been a little smarter "business man". I've seen too many awesome sign men not have anything to show for all that talent. My Grandfather (95) years old sits in a nursing home that costs $3000 a month and has $15,000 left to his name, His social security is $1100 a month, you do the math. Let's all work smarter at making what we deserve.
-------------------- Matthew Broadus Matthew Broadus Advertising Jacksonville, Fl. mattbroa@alltel.net Posts: 55 | From: Jacksonville, Florida, U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 1998
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Matt, I've always thought the business model that you propose would work well, but I never tried it.
I would caution you to be super super conservative in your sales projections for the first two years. The rent and employee bills come due no matter what happens, and you need the cash position to cover dips. As long as you can hold a breakeven, you are in good shape provided that you are building quality reputation. After two years, repeats and referrals start to kick in, and after three years you should be on the way to where you want to be.
Good luck to you. Vic G
-------------------- Victor Georgiou Danville, CA , USA Posts: 1746 | From: Danville, CA , USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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