A Good customer, who's been with you for years, and who was always been happy with your work, phones you up and says...."Neil... there's something we need to talk about... I have the phone book opened to other sign shops, and I did'nt want to go behind your back, so I thought I'd call you up first" I say to him "What have I got done now." He replies "Well, you lettered a van for so and so, he used to work for me, and I don't like what you did for him.... You need to re-think who you might want to do work for"
This customer was upset because I lettered his competitions Van... period. He said to me that I would'nt know the difference, but that It did'nt matter, because I should really have known the difference. Now this customer is a little on the eccentric side, be we always got along fine. And by the way, there's nothing else to this story, that's all that was wrong in his books. At least he was good enough to phone me I suppose.
Have any of you ever encountered this kind of behaviour, to this extreme?
And how would you handle it?
-------------------- "Keep Positive"
SIGNS1st. Neil Butler Paradise, NF Posts: 6277 | From: St. John's NF Canada | Registered: Mar 1999
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I had a guy pull a stunt like that...I told him that I legally (in Canada, anyway) have to sell to him, that I cannot refuse to do work for a guy because of who he is- it is called DISCRIMINATION.
Also, what HE is doing is probably called what- racketeering? Coercion? Blackmail?
I would tell him politely but firmly that the only person who tells you who you do work for is the bank...Unless your customer owns your mortgage!!
-------------------- Steve Burke Cascades Inc NS Canada
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving isn't for you Posts: 359 | From: NS Canada | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
That strikes me as a lot more than a little ecentric. I'm sure how I would handle it would depend on exactly what I was doing when the call came in and exactly what kind of mood I was in. my first instinct is that this is one of many customers.... I think I would ask if they understand that you run a business with many customers that this one doesn't own you. Then I would ask if they honestly think you lived on the measly $1000 a year (or whatever the amount of annual sales to this customer is) they paid you. If you're in the right mood, you can have this conversation without sounding like a total b!tch. Trust me.
-------------------- Chris Welker Wildfire Signs Indiana, Pa Posts: 4254 | From: Indiana, PA | Registered: Mar 2001
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i just posted something kinda similar awhile back...where you do work for businesses that either provide the same service or sell similar products...of course i felt guilty when one customer says oh you're cheating on us...well after i think about for awhile i think..i felt like saying oh yeah i'm going to retire on the $200 a year you do with me...so i can only letter one electrician, plumber, hair salon, coffee house etc...that's crap...so if you owned a restaurant you would expect all of your customers to never eat anywhere else?..fts...i'd want to tell the guy to go f%6k himself but if i had to nice i'd explain in idiot terms...hey look i run a professional business and i don't have time for high school popularity games dude...ask him that if you didn't like one of his customers would he tell that person to scram based on your opinion...i think not...that attitude is one of the most immature i can think of..what a giant a$$...i'd call his bluff...i'm a bit stubborn so no one is going to dick-tate to me who i can work for.
-------------------- Karyn Bush Simply Not Ordinary, LLC Bartlett, NH 603-383-9955 www.snosigns.com info@snosigns.com Posts: 3516 | From: Bartlett, NH USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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Politely ask the guy to keep paying for the same job you did for him , so you can pay "YOUR" bills. Heh! what a joke. You handled it better than I would. I would have told him to hit the bricks.
-------------------- Ryan Ursta Ursta Graphics 116 B North Mercer Avenue Sharpsville Pa. 16150 Call: 724•962•2206 "We make YOU look good"
Known as "Ugraph" on mirc Posts: 558 | From: Sharpsville Pa. USA | Registered: Sep 2000
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I have had people with attitude also when they know I do work for their competitors. I hate the situation when you have one companies' van in the shop and the competition comes in to set up an appointment for their new van (truck etc).
The worst situation I had was a business where the owners divorced each other and fought in court to split the businesses. She got one business and he kept the other. She started calling me to do her signwork. They would both seem to call to set up appointments in the same week. Or walk into the shop hours apart from each other. I hated that situation. Luckily, she moved to another state. (although she stiffed me on the last couple jobs.)
Like the others have said, you are in business to make money. Unless the customer is going to pay you enough to survive all year, they better accept that you work for anyone who can afford to pay. We are not lawyers on retainer.
Good Luck, though I don't think this guy will go anywhere else. If he does, he will probably be back.
Pam, Pam's Signs
-------------------- Pam Eddy Niles, MI ple@qtm.net Posts: 460 | From: Michigan | Registered: Dec 2000
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I posted a reply to Karyn on her post, much like what she's saying here.
Neil, I think you handled it well. Just be polite, and let people vent alittle. We all have times where stuff hits us wrong, and we may not always be thinking reasonably at those times. Sounds like he reacted before thinking it all thru.
I think once he steps back, he'll see it abit clearer from a more objective standpoint.
No need to get offended, or to stick it to him. You acted appropriately.
I would have explained the situation for him politely, with a tad of humour added. Then, hopefully, we'd both be hanging up the phone chuckling and feeling better about things.
Nettie
-------------------- "When Love and Skill Work Together ... Expect a Masterpiece"
posted
It sucks does'nt it. and this guy has about 20 people working for him, and the other guy works out of his van by himself. But we did end the conversation respectfully, he said he'd get back to me. Thanks for the comments.
-------------------- "Keep Positive"
SIGNS1st. Neil Butler Paradise, NF Posts: 6277 | From: St. John's NF Canada | Registered: Mar 1999
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Mine was an electrician. I guess he still doesn't realize that he is one of eight electricians I letter vans for, but he did figure out one of them. Basically the same story. I asked him,"If D.R. Signs called you to rewire their shop, would you refuse them because you wired mine?" I have done two more vans for him since then.
One day I lettered 3 plumbing, heating, and air conditioning vans. They all waited until quitting time to pick them up, and all 3 owners brought the drivers out. They each made comical remarks about me working for the enemy. I replied, "Hey, what can I say, I'm a sign whore. If you got the bucks, I'll letter you're trucks." That got a good laugh, and the 3 owners and I sat around and chatted for over an hour.
-------------------- Don Hulsey Strokes by DON signs Utica, KY 270-275-9552 sbdsigns@aol.com
I've always been crazy... but it's kept me from going insane. Posts: 2283 | From: Utica, KY U.S.A. | Registered: Jan 1999
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Hey, what can I say, I'm a sign whore. If you got the bucks, I'll letter you're trucks."
quote:
Don, funny stuff. Should be on the bumber of the company truck??
Neil, you handled it appropriately.
-------------------- "Are we having fun yet?" Peter Schuttinga DZines Sign Studio 1617 Millstream rd Victoria BC V9B-6G4 Posts: 521 | From: Victoria BC | Registered: Mar 2002
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Neil, Don said what I would've said. Whatever business the guy is in, he must have customers who are competitors. By his assertion, he'd expect you to do signs for only one of each profession. How long would he expect you to be in business that way?
And how about advertising? If Speedy Muffer places an ad in the newspaper, does that mean the paper should not then accept an ad from Midas Muffler? And how about those yellow pages he was referring to. They did your ad, so you should be pretty pi$$ed that they did ads for other sign shops too. Geez...what's this world coming to?
Neil, I think I'd call him back and say "Ya know, ya got me ta thinkin'...", then mention a few examples from these posts. Hopefully he'll see the logic and continue to use your services.
posted
Like Ted, I probably would have gotten a real hot head. I don't know what it is lately but I've sort of develop an attitude toward idiot customers who don't listen or always want something for nothing. Bad timing on my part since we are dead around here and my husband got layed off!! But hey, I'd rather be poor than deal with jerks!
-------------------- Amy Brown Life Skills 101 Private Address Posts: 3502 | From: Lake Helen, FL, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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"This customer was upset because I lettered his competitions Van... period."
hey neil, i don't believe that the fact you lettered this guy's truck is all that is buggin' him.
i believe you are guilty of doing "effective advertising" for his competition! (that's what we do, right?)
i would have said, "Hey fellow, i am in the sign business, i am a small shop. if you had given me more signwork, then i would not have had the time to letter "his" van. (of course followed by a chuckle)
posted
We hung signs for two hardware stores across the street from each other in a town of 1500 people. We have done lots of plumbers, furnace guys, and carpenters. Do they only work for one homeowner. Would they turn down work from a second grocery store, or would they feel committed to just one....somthing to think about.
""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3489 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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Neil, maybe you can turn this "eccentric behaviour" into a sales opportunity.
Call the guy back in a day or two, and tell him you were thinking about what he said... (that makes him feel important). Then say "gee, since the other guy only had one van, and you have so many, I didn't even think of him as your competitor." (flatter him).
It seems he feels "hurt" and maybe all you need to do is give him a little attention and butter him up, and he'll be a happy kid again.
-------------------- :: Scooter Marriner :: :: Coyote Signs :: :: Oakland, CA :: :: still a beginner :: :: Posts: 1356 | From: Oakland (and San Francisco) | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
I agree with Rick, but I would probably take it one step furthur and watch when he goes into a store & when I would see him at a different store, confront him like he did you & ask him why he is shopping here instead of the other place. Is he not loyal????
I do think this guy will come around.
Some peoples kids!!!
-------------------- Lauri Goretski Custom Murals N6334 HWY 107 TOMAHAWK WI 54487 CustomMurals1@aol.com Posts: 127 | From: Tomahawk Wi | Registered: Apr 2003
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Scooter you sly dog!(coyote)Glad you're on our side. I've heard that the best negotiators get their opponents to WANT to agree. If you ever get tired of signs, maybe you could try politics. Well maybe not, after all I said sly, not sleaze. And the most succinct and logical award goes to Don Husley. Neil, you must be doing something right, to have customers "fighting" over your services. Jim D.
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
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Sometimes I think that the contractors come into my shop just to see who the current competition is. I work for all of them.
-------------------- Jeff Vrstal Main Street Signs 157 E. Main Street Evansville, WI 53536 1-608-882-0322 Posts: 670 | From: Evansville, Wisconsin | Registered: Sep 2001
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posted
I know I said everything in a tactful manner, And like you said, He did mention the fact that I made his competitor look too good. I also mentioned the fact that I Can't turn away work from anyone, no matter who they are, and That I'd Hate to lose him as a cutomer, we'll see. I'll let you know, the fortunate thing at this time is that we are really Busy, and that's welcome, especially after our very long hard winter.
One other thing, I try to treat every customer as if my business depended on it, cause you never know, there's only a couple of times where I let a customer out the door, and that's the time they are just playing mind games.
[ May 07, 2003, 06:15 AM: Message edited by: Neil D. Butler ]
-------------------- "Keep Positive"
SIGNS1st. Neil Butler Paradise, NF Posts: 6277 | From: St. John's NF Canada | Registered: Mar 1999
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Maybe your 'eccentric' customer just opened the door to you doing another job for him!
Offer to strip his vehicle and do a bigger, faster, louder, flashier layout than what he's got now, and even better than the one you just did for his competition.
That'll see if he puts his money where his mouth is....
posted
Ted I Don't Know How many times in the past I've tried to sell him on a printed graphic, he always turned it down, not that his vans don't look good, they do, I did them did'nt I, LOL. He keeps them consistant and Professional looking and they do look great. We'll see if he comes back, if he don't then that's all you can do, I'm not about to let someone dictate who or who I cannot do work for.
-------------------- "Keep Positive"
SIGNS1st. Neil Butler Paradise, NF Posts: 6277 | From: St. John's NF Canada | Registered: Mar 1999
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Neil, it may have more than anything to do with your location. I started my business in an island community where everybody knew what everyone did for or to everyone else. There were two excavating businesses, whose owners, Howie and Andy, hated each other to the point it was comical. The other contractors either took sides, or played them off against each other to force their prices down.
It ended up Andy got drunk one night and took a swing at Howie in a bar, then Howie went out to a jobsite and put sand in the oil filler cap of the Andy's backhoe. I think he ended up paying a massive damages settlement and went out of business.
I was just a spectator. Both these clowns were too cheap to ever letter anything unless they had their kids do it with shoe polish.
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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That's a good story Cam, Sadly , that takes place a lot here in rural Newfoundland, where one hates to see the other get ahead. It also happens between sign shops in and around St. John's. They'll cut your throat and their own to get a job, even when they are busy.
-------------------- "Keep Positive"
SIGNS1st. Neil Butler Paradise, NF Posts: 6277 | From: St. John's NF Canada | Registered: Mar 1999
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Maybe this guy is onto sumthin'- You better march right down to the Chrysler dealer and tell them you don't want to see any other sign shops driving Chryslers...or they can take back the PT! yuk yuk.
-------------------- Steve Burke Cascades Inc NS Canada
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving isn't for you Posts: 359 | From: NS Canada | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
You know Steve, the funny thing about the Chrysler thing, is that I leased the cruiser from one dealership, and I don't receive any work from them, but the other Dealership gives me work, I pull up in by PT And not a negative word from them, you know where I'll be going next time.
-------------------- "Keep Positive"
SIGNS1st. Neil Butler Paradise, NF Posts: 6277 | From: St. John's NF Canada | Registered: Mar 1999
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Well guess what, the customer called me up last week and wanted to get the 3 vehicles lettered with new graphics, he acted like nothing happened, I guess stress will do that to you. Like I said he was always happy with my work and good to deal with, I'm glad I kept my mouth shut.
Times are good and we are busier than we have ever been. I hope I'm making money...
-------------------- "Keep Positive"
SIGNS1st. Neil Butler Paradise, NF Posts: 6277 | From: St. John's NF Canada | Registered: Mar 1999
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SONGPAINTER Original Sign Music by Sign People NOW AVAILABLE on CD and the proceeds go to Letterville's favorite charity! Click Here for Sound Clips! Posts: 1974 | From: Orleans, MA, Cape Cod, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5496 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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The Answer In A Nut Shell The way an "Old (more mature) Signwriter" told me several years ago... "Neglecting one customer for another is like robbing Peter to pay Paul. This only makes Peter sore and you can't do business with a sore Peter." This statement applies as well to being on time with job delivery.
-------------------- David Estes West Kentucky Outdoor Signs 8975 Hwy. 62 Calvert City, KY 42029 ffw2@hcis.net Posts: 15 | From: Possum Trot, KY | Registered: Jun 2003
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