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Help....My own sign looks like the worst in town! A local woodworker insisted on making a frame for the new sign I was going to put in front of my shop about a year ago. I gave him the signboard and he sent it back with a wood frame around it which my brothers attacted to two 6"x6" post. Well, the woodworker used Poplar and according to woodworking customers of mine, the wood was not dry enough and cracked, and little fungus things grew out from it and so on. I tried to patch it, while still mounted to the post, but other areas are splitting. I don't want to tell the guy that made the frame, because it was a gift.
My question... it doesn't seem that this wood frame is going to work. Can I take it down and use HDU for a frame? How would I mount it if that is the route to go? Is there a better way? My own sign is looking pretty bad for a sign shop. If I knew how to post a picture of it I would. I really don't want to dig the post out if I don't have to, they are in the ground pretty good. I would like to make another frame out of something that will survive the Michigan winters, but don't know what the best material is to use. I do mostly truck lettering and pinstriping, the board signs I do make are installed by the customer.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Pam
-------------------- Pam Eddy Niles, MI ple@qtm.net Posts: 460 | From: Michigan | Registered: Dec 2000
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Replicate the frame out of HDU. That way the wood guy will never know and you won't hurt his feelings.
Use VHB tape and silicone adhesive to hold the frame on.
-------------------- Bruce Bowers
DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter Posts: 6451 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
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For painted frames, I know a shop that is not using wood any longer. He buys those plastic 2x6's they sell for decking and rips them and says they tool OK. I have not tried them, but his seem to go together licely and will not shrink.
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6717 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Hey Pam! You said your sign was "sign board" an' I'm not sure if yer talkin' about MDO or what. I'm also not really too sure about cold weather conditions either, as I'm in hot, humid, oft wet weather here, tho' it will get down in the 20's occasionly in January. What I use a lot of here is "treated lumber" which I understand they are no longer treating with asbestos, but another treatment that supposedly lasts as long. I also have just about entirely stopped usin' MDO or any other kind'a sign board that has wood in it, 'cuz it seems like no matter how well you prime it caulk it or otherwise try to seal it, WATER WILL GET IN THERE AN" ROT IT! I now almost exclusively use aluminum, even for some cut-out stuff, tho' I do have a few MDO's that've held up exceptionly well with cut outs. I too am unable to post pics! How frustrating, as I would love to show you some of the frames and/or braces I've built with treated lumber that have been up for as long as 8 years an' still look good. Some of them are painted an' some are just left natural an' allowed to weather, an' still some are just stained with oneshot or industrial enamel that I thin down with a mix of min. spirits an' laquer thinner! Makes a great stain fer treated lumber! When I frame aluminum signs I use treated 2x4's which I've run thru the table saw 3/4" deep kerf (width of the saw blade) then I "cap" the aluminum all aroun runnin' 3" deck screws in thru the side of the 2x4 thru the aluminum. For a little fancier sign, you can rip some moulding out'a the treated and go around the inside of the frame against the face of the sign and then really dress it up with sum 1x6 all around the outside. I mount the sign betwween 2 4x4's,6x6's and even 8x8's, with 3/8 lag screws directly thru the frame.If yer not a woodworker just let whoever does it for you read this an; he'll get it. We always mount the framed sign between the posts on site, which I usually do while my PHD does the holes . . . But I've given you too many words an' not enough visual aids!! Good luck in spite of my "help". Hope to meet ya at a meet someday!!
-------------------- Signs Sweet Home Alabama
oneshot on chat
"Look like a girl, act like a lady, think like a man, work like a dog" Posts: 5758 | From: "Sweet Home" Alabama | Registered: Mar 2003
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I think it's a good idea to make it look just like the existing frame, so the wood worker doesn't know his has been replaced.
I haven't seen the decking material mentioned. I will have to look into that. I am dying to try HDU materials so this may force me to take the time to try it.
Treated lumber worries me know that the good stuff in it has been eliminated. The signboard I used is the alumaboard material (wood core) Now I'm thinking I should have used the 10mm Alumalite material. MDO has been very disappointing in the last few years. Doesn't hold up like it use to.
Thanks again for your advice, now I have to find time to take it down and redo the frame. It took me a year to get a new sign up. I worked on it between paying jobs.
Pam
-------------------- Pam Eddy Niles, MI ple@qtm.net Posts: 460 | From: Michigan | Registered: Dec 2000
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Hi Pam. I don't know what the framing looks like, but keep 3/4" PVC in mind. You can stack it up all kinds of ways to make different profiles, Cracking and rot shure wouldnt be a problem anymore. We still paint it though, to keep mildew from getting a hold in the pores of the open cell structure on the cut edges.
ps, posting pictures is easy after you've done it once. There are 2 prerequisites. You need some web space somewhere, where you can store it. And you need an FTP program to send it to the web space. You may have gotten some web server space 'free' with your dial up account, and FTP programs are available free all over the net. There's a permanent post here on this site (I think) showing the simple UBB code to use in the body of your posted mesage. Sorry to be so general. If you want more specific I will be happy to, but mostly letting you know it's no big mystery when you're ready.
SONGPAINTER Original Sign Music by Sign People NOW AVAILABLE on CD and the proceeds go to Letterville's favorite charity! Click Here for Sound Clips! Posts: 1974 | From: Orleans, MA, Cape Cod, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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If you want to use wood, redwood or western red cedar are good choices for outdoor signs. And I don't see anything wrong with letting the woodworker know what happened, as he probably doesn't realize that poplar was a bad choice for out in the weather like that.
-------------------- Jeff Ogden 8727 NE 68 Terr. Gainesville FL, 32609 Posts: 2138 | From: 8827 NE 68 Terr Gainesville Fl 32609 | Registered: Aug 2002
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I totally agree with Jeff. I would start off the conversation like this..."At the risk of hurting your feelings, which I really do not want to do, I thought you might want to know for future reference..."
posted
I don't see any problem in calling the woodworker and asking him for his advice in fixing the frame he made you. Tell him the trouble you are having and ask him for suggestions. If he is any kind of woodworker, he would definately notice that you have replaced his frame with a different one.
Then go ahead and fix it any way you like. At least you won't have to worry about your woodworker friend finding out after you replaced it. Honesty is usually the best policy.
Suelynn
-------------------- "It is never too late to be what you might have been." -George Eliot
Suelynn Sedor Sedor Signs Carnduff, SK Canada Posts: 2863 | From: Carnduff, SK Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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Suelynn, I would love to let the woodworker know so maybe he wouldn't use Poplar anymore for outdoor use. I cringed when he said that is how he was making the frame. I know it should have be made out of Redwood, or Cedar etc., but he is the type that no woman is going to tell him he is wrong, or point out a problem with one of his projects. He feels he is the best woodworker around and harvest his own trees to run through his own mill and kiln and so on. Unfortunately, in the last few years, his drinking has become a problem. Everyone sees it except him. It has been effecting his work and his attitude towards customers. That, on top of the fact his attitude towards women is that of "barefoot and pregnant", I rather fix this on my own. Or I should say, with the advice of the people here.
I want to make sure I use the right materials and hardware to keep the sign up there several years.
Thank you everybody. Your advice is greatly appreciated.
Pam
-------------------- Pam Eddy Niles, MI ple@qtm.net Posts: 460 | From: Michigan | Registered: Dec 2000
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SONGPAINTER Original Sign Music by Sign People NOW AVAILABLE on CD and the proceeds go to Letterville's favorite charity! Click Here for Sound Clips! Posts: 1974 | From: Orleans, MA, Cape Cod, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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So Pam sent me some photos of here sign which I will post for anyone who's still tracking this thread. It looks better than I was imagining in my head. This appears to be a roadside sign, not what anyone is going to walk up close to. If that is the case, I would be inclined to patch it up and repaint right where it is. Scrape, caulk and prime, and hit the frame and posts with a couple coats of latex and the cracks should never show. That should go a long way toward stabilizing the cracking so it doesn't come right back too. (in my opinion).
If you're set on replacing the frame, I can't tell from the picture whether it can be removed without the whole sign coming apart. Am I seeing it right, that the main part of the rectangle is banded with 2-by stock? That would mean the frame is definitely an integral part of the panel, and not removable without major surgery. That would also mean those decorative 'wing' things on the sides are screwed to the posts, and the frame is thru-bolted to them. Yes? Interesting bit of engineering, and a bugger to modify. More reasons to repair it and be done, but I'll throw this back out to the forum for more input.
SONGPAINTER Original Sign Music by Sign People NOW AVAILABLE on CD and the proceeds go to Letterville's favorite charity! Click Here for Sound Clips! Posts: 1974 | From: Orleans, MA, Cape Cod, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Joe, thanks for posting the pictures. I should have taken pix before I patched the worst of it last fall. The camera didn't pick up the blistering and cracking in other areas. There was so much moisture in the frame that white fungus stuff was growing out from it all over the west side of the sign frame. It is a job to take it down to replace the frame, yet it looks like it will be high maintainance to keep patching, priming and repainting this poplar frame.
All suggestions are greatly appreciated.
Pam
-------------------- Pam Eddy Niles, MI ple@qtm.net Posts: 460 | From: Michigan | Registered: Dec 2000
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