posted
What "Shop Rates" are for other services that YOU purchase? It might be interesting to find what some of these are, and make your customers AWARE of just what the going rate is for commonly purchased services in your locallity. For instance, how much does your mechanic bill as an hourly rate when he's doing work on your vehicle? Ever had a major appliance repaired? A routine service call charge might be as much as $50.00 just for them showing up to assess what's wrong with said appliance. Collective agreements cover what Police, Firefighters, Teachers and Paramedics make. How does their hourly rate compare to what you charge? Trips to the Doctor, Dentist, Lawyer, and even your local Hairdresser/Barber should reveal what they charge per hour.
The point is that we all have to make a decent wage to afford all of those other services that we buy as we go about our day-to-day lives. Yet, for some reason, our customers scream with anguish whenever we attempt to charge a fair and reasonable price for the services that we provide. Why do they have this perception that we don't deserve an hourly rate that provides us with a decent income? Is it because we don't project a "Professional Image"? What makes consumers readily accept the fact that other professions charge what they will, and pay up without the protestations that we all seem to hear? Is signwriting a vocation where the public-at-large feels that we all do this strictly for the fun of it?
I've been making my living at this trade for 30+ years, and the public attitude hasn't changed much over that course of time. I guess that they feel that the fun we get from this particular profession is "reward enough", and that we are begrudgingly given the prices that we require for our work.
-------------------- Ken Henry Henry & Henry Signs London, Ontario Canada (519) 439-1881 e-mail: kjmlhenry@rogers.com
Why do I get all those on-line offers to sell me Viagara, when the only thing hardening is my arteries ? Posts: 2690 | From: London,Ontario, Canada | Registered: Feb 1999
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posted
thats a great idea... although a mechanic has alot more expenses and tools than a sign maker.. and i dont know anything about dentists... but it's a good way to diffuse any complainers.
-------------------- Chad harrington Chadvertising Halifax, Nova Scotia Posts: 52 | From: Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Great post. I'll add that I've seen a great many backyard mechanics that can do a dam sight more then me on a vehicle with WAYYYY less expense in equipment & overhead, but then again I'm not a hand-lettering artist (yet ) so I'm comparing them against MY overhead, & not all sign folks. Anyway, IMO the results of talent & training justifies the value of the product or service regardless of the methods or tools. I can justiify or rationalize a little higher rate for professionals with years of expensive unpaid training, like a surgeon, but after that slight allowence I consider my time as valuable as anyone elses.
In agreement with one of your theories Ken, I feel that the professionalism that is portrayed helps the customer accept the value of the product. I believe the same product @ the same price ordered & picked up from an expensive & impressive showroom might feel more expensive to the client if ordered through & delivered by a guy without a commercial location, a yellow page ad, or a business phone line with answering machine etc, etc.
I am not by any means assigning less value to the products made by at-home shops etc., but I believe that many of our clients might.
posted
Good post, GREAT REPLIES! Perception is critical here. I wonder if people consider the other services more of a necessity, and signs as decoration, almost. My perception of some fees charged by some proffessionals is extortion. That is, pay us what we want, or die.(Doctors) Now I'm quite aware of malpractice insurance rates, which brings up another point, responsibility. A poorly made sign may cost you business, but it won't cost you your life. Back to perception. In a large city, you can run an appartment moving business. It doesn't involve long distance trips, mostly across town stuff. My brother in law does this. Before they do a move for somebody, the customer always signs a paper. One of the things it says is that the moving co can keep an object until payment is made in full. Most folks don't bother reading the writing, and just sign. Soooo, The first thing loaded (always) is the television. Thus it's the last thing unloaded. It stays on the truck 'till payment is made. Often people start making up excuses as to why they can't pay just yet, until they find out the TV is still on the truck. Oh baby! Now it's a whole 'nother song and dance. They call their relatives, they even borrow money from the neighbors to make the payment. See, it's a matter of perception. There's alot that can be said about how signs are perceived, but I've been talking enough for now. Jim D.
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
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........I have people come at me with the same "scream"..."WHY SO MUCH?", Then I say, "Mechanics, electricians, welders, etc., all make "skilled trade" wages, but you don't say much about that, yet look how many of them have established businesses in this town! Now look at how many sign artists there are.This talent is a rare commodity and not just ANYONE can do this...the truth is, friend, that I'm highly in demand and should really be chargin' you 5 times this amount.........."....Do you have any idea how many "stunned faces of realization" I've seen?! Hahahahahahahah!!!!
-------------------- Signs Sweet Home Alabama
oneshot on chat
"Look like a girl, act like a lady, think like a man, work like a dog" Posts: 5758 | From: "Sweet Home" Alabama | Registered: Mar 2003
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I simply look them in the eyes and say: "LOOK! This is a buisiness, NOT a hobby! I've been doing this for 36 years and I don't need to practice on your sign." I get either a stunned fish look, or a smile.Weeds out the tire kickers and snivvelers!
Life is too short to put up with nonsense!
-------------------- Si Allen #562 La Mirada, CA. USA
(714) 521-4810
si.allen on Skype
siallen@dslextreme.com
"SignPainters do It with Longer Strokes!"
Never mess with your profile while in a drunken stupor!!!
Brushasaurus on Chat Posts: 8831 | From: La Mirada, CA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I find that there are persons who want to give you money and there those that don't. I have enough stories of my own and don't make it a habit of listening to future customers give me their view of prices while their homes cost in excess of a 1/2 million bucks. Actually, the longer I listen, the more I charge. My lawyer once told me that even he doesn't make that kind of hourly rate for a job I did for him, I replied that when I was a lawyer I too didn't make this kind of money either.
-------------------- HotLines Joey Madden - pinstriping since 1952 'Perfection, its what I look for and what I live for'
posted
I had a lawyer complain about my $250 sketch deposit, until I asked him how many briefs he writes, or cases he prepares for trial, on spec.
Not that it helped. The cheap prick still wouldn't write a check. Like Joey said, some people will give you money, and some won't.
On a similar note, I know a boat-shop owner who always asks for a discount on lettering. When I refuse, he doesn't argue. After the third or fourth time I asked him why he keeps asking. He just grinned and says "I ALWAYS ask for a discount - no matter what I'm buying. You'd be amazed how much money I save." It wasn't that he was particularly cheap or stingy, he just always asked - and said it never ceased to amaze him how readily most people were willing to lower a price if asked.
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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(A poorly made sign may cost you business, but it won't cost you your life.)
....Yes it may, and this is part of the Wages asked for.
A thing of beauty is one item! But the other one is the fact of liability.
Remember, the fact is you are the Company that manufactures and installs these creation....
Your workmanship hangs by the tread with Insurance Coverages. We like to say (Nice Job!) but if it falls off the Building or Wall or Total Failure and kills someone!!! Now we have the Insurance Claim!
I myself believe in full rate for the work, if your doing it out of House or Commerical..
Anything can happen.
-------------------- Stephen Deveau RavenGraphics Insinx Digital Displays
Letting Your Imagination Run Wild! Posts: 4327 | From: Lower Sackville, Nova Scotia, Canada | Registered: Jan 2000
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