posted
Do you ever get the sense that many of our efforts are "pearls before swine"?
Yesterday I took a call from the owner of several very upscale children's apparel stores. I've had a conversation with this man once before, which had me survey his site, but then was "not ready" to proceed... so when he called at 11am and asked to meet me at his local store at noon, I was surprised, and a little wary - he has wasted my time once before, after all. First of all, he was late (again, wasting my time) and I had a chance to look at his signs. Nothing had been replaced or touched-up in at least ten years; the signs were dull, peeling, cracking crap, not that they'd been anything to brag about to begin with. When he arrived he told me that he was the former GM of an outdoor ad (billboard) company and "know all about the value of good signs"(you wouldn't know it from the corroding trash on his store.) He wanted to replace five signs, all re-designed with a logo and bright colors, but could any of the existing signs (delaminating 10+ year-old MDO) just be "freshened up"? I went into my sales pitch, telling him not to re-use any of what he had, and that I could re-design signs using his logo and new material all around, that his new signs would cost from $3000 to $5000, and asked for $250 deposit for a design deposit. He agreed and gave me a credit-card #.
I like to work on new projects when it's fresh in my mind, so after several other errands I came back to the shop, ran a $250 charge on his card, and sat down to work on his project. After a couple of hours I had some halfway decent ideas going before I went home for the night.
This morning the manure got sucked through the propeller bright and early; by 7 am I had a voicemail and an email telling me to cancel everything! Apparently he had dared to act without consulting THE WIFE, who had decided that my prices were "outrageous", and that since they "already had a logo" they weren't going to pay for any sort of design work, that I should NOT process his card # (too late!) and "if you want to talk to anyone, call my WIFE".
Fine. By now I've taken their money and begun working on designs; so I'm disinclined to let these two clowns waste any more of my time. So, after an hour or so of contemplation and prayer, I picked up the phone, put my head into the lion's mouth, and called THE WIFE.
It was a surprisingly civil conversation. Without going into details here, I explained my policies, established a budget (she is willing to spend $1500) and as tactfully as possible got the message across that she was NOT getting her $250 back. (By now they've spent at least that my time, not counting the special A--hole nonsense surcharge.) I'm going to finish the designs and see where it goes; chances are, they'll get a two painted signs for that, if they hire me at all.
Moral of the story - as always, money talks and bullschit walks. The first clue was the faded, peeling, rotting crap they wanted to "freshen up"; it tells me that no matter how nice a sign I do for these people, it's likely to be "pearls before swine".
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I figure that the nice signs I do will enhance the neighborhood they're in. Even if the business owner doesn't really understand or value what I do, at least I know my work is improving the community.
-------------------- :: Scooter Marriner :: :: Coyote Signs :: :: Oakland, CA :: :: still a beginner :: :: Posts: 1356 | From: Oakland (and San Francisco) | Registered: Mar 2001
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Its funny, but the BS won't ever totally go away from the business side of things, so we might as well just try to get better at dealing with it. Like you just did ~~~~~
-------------------- Jeff Ogden 8727 NE 68 Terr. Gainesville FL, 32609 Posts: 2138 | From: 8827 NE 68 Terr Gainesville Fl 32609 | Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
And people wonder why signs cost "so much". Jim D.
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
I can completely relate. Picked up a difficult client not long ago. "An interior decorator". Has an incredibly ugly logo you can't read. I did some banners initially and it was like pulling teeth with here trying to dictate design. I guess if you are an interior decorator you must be born with some gene that makes you a natural designer.I basically told her it was my way or the hway. She went with my suggestions. After all you could read my version.
A month later she decides she wants her van done. I told her flat out I wouldnt do the job with her existing logo but if she was open to my tweaking it I would consider it. She agreed. I quoted her $450 to letter the van and she tried hard to get me to lower my estimate but I flat out refused. Lucky I have enough work that I can do that.
She offered me $400 and I counter offered with $550...She finally agreed to my original quote of $450 when I told her she should have no problem finding someone else to do it cheaper.
What a crock of shilt...The woman sells designer crap to the uppity up and she expects me to take the hit?
Not likely to happen. So why do people feel the need to play these silly games? Damn I get tired of the crap and wish I wasnt in this business.
But I do get minimal satisfaction telling them where the train stops.
-------------------- Bob Stephens Skywatch Signs Zephyrhills, FL
posted
The thing that gets me is why people initially can waste so much of our time, (mine & theirs) and then when the decision is made as to the design, they expect the completed project yesterday--I'm convinced, this will never cease until we all become lawyer like and charge for every thinking minute, including when you just need to sleep on it Wouldn't that be cool to explain
-------------------- Lauri Goretski Custom Murals N6334 HWY 107 TOMAHAWK WI 54487 CustomMurals1@aol.com Posts: 127 | From: Tomahawk Wi | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
1. Find a nearby competitor that also could use a "facelift" 2. Sell that owner a great deal on a complete package - use your expertise to make it really effective, but reaonably priced. 3. Go back to the first guy and ask if he wants to keep up with his new competiton 4. Raise prices
-------------------- Bob Sheers 24 Hour Services Columbia, MD USA 410-995-3655 bob@go-to-airport.com Posts: 140 | From: Columbia, MD, USA | Registered: Sep 1999
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posted
Had my share just a few days ago... I drove 40 minutes to meet a guy who told me he'd have a sign for me to do. The only reason I made the effort was, that I know the place. Large signs, four of them. They were old when we moved here, ten years ago. I figured, on location and in person, I might be able to sell him a package deal: new logo, new highway signs, new storefront signs, perhaps a van or two. Right when I walked in he said, he only wanted the one sign done, "exactly the same as it is". Now they were professionally handlettered, but they look like a 70's relict. So I say, "You know, Sir, ALL of your signage is in need of replacement", and he snaps back, "Not at all, they're fine, It's just one that doesn't look too good anymore" (no kidding, it's falling apart). He proceeds to tell me, that the guy who made them in the first place will probably be mad at him (red lights, red lights!)but he wanted to give me a chance (Oh, the honor). Sooo, can I give him a ballpark figure? Well, I already know that I don't want the job, but I tell him anyway, it would be around $1200. He outright laughs at me. "You're joking, right? The other guy would probably still do it for $500". I'm glad I managed to respond with enthusiasm, "Wow, that's a deal! You should really get HIM to do it". When I left, he gave me instructions anyway, to go and measure everything, because "I want it exactly the same". I never bothered to explain that I wouldn't copy another sign painters layout, and I never measured anything. Do I have to mention that he didn't call me back? It is just beyond me, how people who are in business themselves, can be so oblivious at wasting other people's time.
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lotti..they must be brothers...had this guy call me...had to meet with me asap...so i said ok how bout tomorrow morning at 10(knowing there's a 2 sided billboard that's 14 x 48 and there is signage needed all around the property..ya know potential $$)...great...see ya then...now this is also 40 miles each way...the douche wasn't even there...his partner just by chance happen to show up..he was nice. i told him you tell your partner i think he's an a$$ for making an appt within 24 hrs of speaking with me and not showing. i said if you hadn't shown up i would have been all done here...this is almost 1 1/2 hrs of driving for me and i don't have time for this kind of non professional behavior...he was very understanding to my situation. i won't spend too much time on this one...shoot an email with a price...i said i don't do designs up front for free. now maybe he thought i was a total b!tch...i don't really care, my attitude these is look i have about $90k+ worth of equiptment/tools/truck...that means i have bills and i'm not working for f$%king idiots who don't have respect for my time. i'm one person who has to be extremely organized with my day. i'm a professional and i bend over backwards for good customers..the others can kiss my lily white a$$!
-------------------- Karyn Bush Simply Not Ordinary, LLC Bartlett, NH 603-383-9955 www.snosigns.com info@snosigns.com Posts: 3516 | From: Bartlett, NH USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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Wouldn't that be cool to explain ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
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